Spoke to the ed attorney

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Ropefree, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    E-mailed him after he had felt me up for money after running the esq two step over his what he CouLd do IF he thought ....
    This is a small county with zero legal advocates for children. And that erky dude is making bank here now for like one decade and he does know that the simple simple things that a child with my sons Special Education needs are just not that complex. The no can do apathetic professional in america is the new plaque.
    Hold on to your superiority complexes rage queens, it is the honest to God truth I am talking here.
    The school paid and charged the DOE for 201 Special Education hours and what did the teacher who had the course requiring an elective was sacrificed? The exact words " I do not know what to do. I have to many students in my class."
    Here is a thought, there were six students overwhelmiing her teaching abilities at that time. Six divided into 201 equals 37 hours per 180 day school session, or 36 weeks,whaat do you know one hour of tutoring that is what these children DO need each week.
    The Special Education class with six students under the I do not know what to do teaching plan replaces a class and adds nothing but a federal credit account.
    I am quite certain their are six students at my sons school who do need a qualified person who does know and at one hour per week it would be a vast improvement to this vaccum.
  2. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I'm sorry the kids in your county are being let down. It must be horribly frustrating.
  3. eekysign

    eekysign New Member

    Sorry you seem to have a scummy lawyer. Remember, though, they're workers just like you. Too many people get caught up in the "OMG he bills $250 an hour, that shyster!", but fail to notice that $250 pays for his office rent, his employees, the office medical plan, court filing costs, keeping up with his continuing ed classes to stay a lawyer, etc, etc, etc. Doctors bill the same type of rates to health insurance, but no one ever claims they're scammers. So they've got to "feel you up for money"---they're not a volunteer.

    I guess I'm just sensitive---I know a bunch of ed attorneys, and I don't know ANY with a good take home at the end of the day, compared to expenses. The area of law just isn't lucrative---there are never any big payouts, like civil litigation. Parents usually aren't incredibly wealthy, or they would have taken care of the educational problems on their own. And the cases are tough to win, and there's no good cut-and-dry case law--- and lord knows, we're aware that school district's don't like giving up an inch of ground! I don't know your situation, you may have honestly found one of the true slimeballs rolling around. But ed attorneys are generally the GOOD ones who CARE, 'cause the bad guys go for more money-heavy specialties.....depressing to think there may be ones out there trying to take advantage in THIS area, too.

    I didn't understand the second part of your post---"what did the teacher who had the course requiring an elective was sacrificed"? Can you explain the situation again? I'm a little confused. ;)
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  4. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    eekysighn: Oh I am well acquainted with the value of pay for work. When I am sharing the facts about this worm wood attorney who has been making bank on the wealthly families and turning his back on the vast majority of the students in this county, I am very sure that it is the lifestyle preferance that is his motivation. Recall these matters are Rights and the pay off is also bringing his little pond into the common era.

    The sacrific of the elective was required by the Principle who said, and what she said is not the truth, that inorder to recieve services of Special Education that one class had to be with a Special Education teacher.
    My son has never been reminial. His learning issue and qualification for Fape IDEA IEP services is based on the TESTING.
    His treating psyciatrist had IN WRITING recommended "enrichment" and also in the IEP was the HELP WITH WRITTING WHERE WRITING IS USED.
    He attended 201 hours in the Special Education classroom which included six other students. When I intially contacted the sped teacher it followed reciept of a progress report that was below the IEP benchmark. When I inquired with the Special Education teacher who was basicly merely a homework monitor type involvement without interactive attentions with the six students in her classroom she said "I do not know what to do".
    The math I desribed shows that each of those six students COULD HAVE had one hour per week of a specialist WHO DID KNOW WHAT TO DO. And the math that this school applies is to deduct valuable classtime in actual subjects, places a 'spc ed'
    tag on a study hall type hour and aborts the 201 hours of learning, avoids any meaningful educational interactivity.
    That attorney who you imagin can barely make ends meet he is so committed...that is junk. Committed people work to make a better world, not to feather their beds. And we have pro here who whine and cry about the inequity of earning mere 6 figure incomes or $2000 per hour and not $4000 per hour.
    I understand when you say you are feeling 'sensitive' but these fat cats do not deserve to be cottled as saint mcmoneys. He is racking in bank by soliciting the wealthy and he charges far more than $250 per hour. And, you know, if you are making that and haven't invested in the building you are working out of then are you stupid?
    The thing is I do not agree that the people who are earning professional fees are deserving of the pity potty. It is a habit of language that folks use that makes little things seem really important. Maybe these oppertunites are not the mega profitable occupations that they were dreaming of, and still, with that much education and flexablity a professional can recieve less and still pull down a very very very handsome profit.
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Being in a Special Education classroom does not mean remedial education. Sometimes Special Education can be learning disabled but gifted.

    I have no idea why you are so anti-lawyer. They went to school for quite a while, do a job I dont have the qualifications to perform and are free to request the money that the market will allow. Many give of their time pro bono.
  6. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Dammit Janet: Why am I complaining that this district is not adopting the approach that according to you is part of the IEP/504 services for students
    and that it is purely an act of oppertunism for a single lawyer who does not show his legal expertise to do that here over the long years of his career plying the trade for the wealth to him?

    IT is because the problem is alive and well and thriving for the business men who are exploiting the situation and feel up the public from whom they advertise their services under the contingency basis and then do nothing but turn away the educational needs of children who are protected by federal laws and not the lawyers.How so? This guy goes for the money everytime. What is that MOST like?
    It is most like protection money. Racketeering.

    If I had any experiances that I could draw from in my life of a 'good' lawyer
    (a contradiction in terms, really) then I would not have an opinion, now would I?

    Yes the priviledged who can pay the very high fees are able to secure the services and they have the doe pay private companies to provide them.

    Are you implying or suggesting that it is otherwise? Or are you 'feeling' that only children of priviledge deserve the Disability Rights protections?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  7. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    And if they were doing their job in service to this countries children and not as the for profiting types then they would already have fixed it wouldn't "they".
    I mean come on this is not some extremely difficult matter. The solutions have been plied for many years already and as the availablity of an educated public is increasing every single year it makes ecomomic sence that the cost and the availablity of these rather basic and simply outlined materials, techniques, services would mirror that, don't you think?

    We have legions of adults who are themselves in a quagmire over the very learning issues that our public school systems have every reason to seriously supply the means to actualize for what are really tiny bits of the general population in a school. and many of which introduced in classrooms as the core would also help increase the academic excellence of students who are facing 'issues' that are not so extreme as to warrent the labels ect.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I honestly have no clue what you are talking about...really.

    I have had two kids in Special Education. I used no lawyers. None.

    One went through school identified as Learning disabled but gifted with the learning disabilities being a dyscalcula and dysgraphia. I know now he is also on the Aspie-lite spectrum.

    My other child that was Special Education was my behaviorally and emotionally disturbed child...or my bipolar child.

    I do not live in a wealthy area. I am not wealthy. I am disabled. Their dad is blue-collar working poor. Our schools are rural.
  9. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Ropefree - if I understand the gist of your posts about your struggles with the school district, you're upset because you don't believe your child has received appropriate services for him to meet his potential. *None* of our kids, those with disabilities or without, are entitled to an education that makes them meet their potential. There is some responsibility on our kids' shoulders, and on ours as well.

    I have 2 sped kids, each one with very different needs and abilities. My oldest has received a grossly inadequate (and illegal) education, in my humble opinion. He's been separated from nondisabled peers as well as from his home school district, simply based on his physical disability. Every single service he requires is provided in our home HS. But they don't want "those" kids there - much more convenient to schlep them off to segregated facilities. I fought it for years. The (not so) subtle retaliation against him is what finally made me stop. You have to weigh the battle you're waging against the personal cost (emotional as well as financial) to you and your child, as well as a realistic chance of prevailing. I was not going to prevail in IL in forcing FAPE in LRE for a severely physically disabled child. It isn't going to happen - doesn't matter what the law says. So we do what we can at home, provide the services the school district doesn't, and have moved on.

    My difficult child once tested out in the near-genius range, IQ-wise (I don't take a whole lot of stock in IQs per se but it's a decent measure relatively speaking). He truly is incredibly bright - sharp mind and with the exception of math, simply his presence in a classroom is enough for him to learn. But he will ultimately be a drop out. It's inevitable. There is not a service, tutor, IEP, lawyer, or judge who can or *should* force a school district to get my difficult child up to his potential. He is the only one who can do that.

    Academic excellence is an ideal. Free and appropriate public education is the law. Success is not guaranteed to any student, ever.
  10. eekysign

    eekysign New Member

    Hi. My name is eeky, I am a good lawyer. I have spent countless hours working pro bono. I have slept in my office more nights than I can count, where I passed out after working too late on a brief. I have taken a pro bono case up to the highest levels of the federal court system, fighting for a child with a disability. I've been a GAL, I've worked with difficult children at their lowest points. I'm not ever gonna talk about this on the board, because I can't give legal advice, and it's not what I'm doing currently, so I can't even hazard a guess as to the current state of things.

    I live the life, I know there are scumbags out there giving the rest of us a bad name. But just so you guys ALL know there are dedicated people out there.....who do care, and are attorneys, as well. ;)
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I never used lawyers either. I don't know what they could do. The only one who can bring your son up to his IQ level is your son. My oldest two were gifted and neither worked up to potential in school. One got OUT of school and achieved--he is now a millionaire. The other one ran into some mental problems and never finished college--he regrets it deeply, but he couldn't do it. There are NO guarantees even with IEPs an 504s that your child can or should get good grades just because of a high IQ. Your son is 16, I believe. A lot of that is on him. If he can't do it in high school, he will have one heck of a time in college. Since you don't tell us much of what is going on I am assuming your son has stand alone ADHD with no behavioral problems or co-morid disorders because that's what you told us. So many of our kids are battling much more than that. There is no reason, with the info we have, that your son can't work harder and do better. There is no way teachers or specialists can force our children to do great work. They have to provide the opportunity, which does NOT mean doing everything for them. And the kids need to put in an effort too or they just will not achieve no matter how much help they get.
    It's too bad you won't share more details, but without them I'm afraid we are limited as to how much we can either help you or even sympathize. The fact is, we know little about what is really going on--we don't even know if your son is in a public school. If he is in private school, they don't have to do anything regarding IEPs and 504s in certain states and you are very lucky that they help your son at all.
    If you are in public school, like my kids, it is still not their responsibility to make sure your son is an honor student. Even with a high IQ, he just may not be an honor roll kid. That takes a lot of hard work and discipline (I have twin nieces who are in all AP classes and straight A students). They are always hitting the books. They are all about studying and doing well in every class. It's a strong effort on both their parts.
    I'm sorry I can't help more, but I really don't have any handle on what is happening with your son. So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I do wish you both luck!
  12. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    MidwestMom: In reality there are programs and meathods specific to these learning issues that are neglected for children who are in a public school for one silly and meaningless reason.
    I whole heartedly disagree with the johnny boot strap aproach to matters of this type.
    In reality the students who learn to fail when they are not offered the known means to overcome some lifelong issues are merely being neglected by the adults around them.
    I have read you "it is on them" ideas and maybe for your children as things were in your way of looking at the adolescent to adult years that is all YOU know. However for the practical support that is available and which children with dysgraphia, and adhd do require to learn what is specific to them...it is not unknown or mysterious.
    Until these known therapies and tutoring are presented to our children we simply will remain in the straights that you find so forgivable and I do not.
    If our students require test batteries to be elligilble for IEP then it is sensible that they be retested periodically and the facts, and not some tired old folklore, to show what works, what doesn't work and what ever is to be discovered by attention to reality for each student.
  13. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    Hey Eeky,
    just wanted to say I work in a law library and can tell you I see many dedicated, caring students who are studying law and want to help people. Sure, we have the arrogant, in it for the money types too but that is a stereotype, not the reality for the whole group.
  14. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    The fact is that in the schools where my son has attended the fact that when the public schools fail to comply and fail to present the specific lessons that are uniquely needed for these kids what occurs?

    They do not learn those things.
    As far as the jabs that the student isn't working hard enough well good for you you have an excuse that fits failure for any child. Good job!
    As for the idea that it is ok for schools to continue to withhold the lessons specific to learning issues for Special Education and 504 balanced on the notion that to update the way things are conducted as if those matter...hey, lets have a fancy smancy program and stay stuck in yesteryear where we let the known services and reality rest for these children.

    I am glade that eeky the anonomous attorney is so dedicated and glade to share his mighty goodness....from behind a masked name. so what are your interests in this sight anyway?

    I have made daily efforts to get an advocate. I do not appreciate the jabs and the blame game on my kid. I feel that when folks are so set on these
    no can do ideas and supportive of the very policies that do one thing:fail to help children learn what they need to know.
    Also why would someone feel safe sharing their personal facts for you to slice and dice them with your putdowns Midwestmom...you make these statements where you say you do not understand and that you do not know what country or what type of school and you can not help and then you also say that students can not "be forsed"...how about tutouring specific to the Special Education need?
    What explaination for turning backs on adhd students who have problems with the fine motor skills of handwriting? Or the written work required in all subjects? it is as common as rain and the fact is the speach and language
    provision neatly excludes this common issue....HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?
  15. compassion

    compassion Member

    I have to say I am very impressed with our attorney. It was for criminal charges she was facing in traffic court for two accidents (related to her mania). We hired somone expereinced with both civil and criminal law. They are fast, helpful and respectful. I get the impression their firm does a lot of pro bono work with homeless, poor. He has helped us a lot. He was very quick to respond when she entered Residential Treatment Center (RTC) so would not be able to complete her requirements for the deffeerred prosecution. It is extended now until October. He dealt with the state attroney in a very speedy fashion. He has a very experinced and respeictful assistant. I have never dealt with a criminal attorney before and have been very impressed. Compassion
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I am not getting the meaning of everything you say, however I do not agree that it is up to the teachers to make every single child achieve and feel good about himself, even if there are programs. They simply CAN NOT do an entire program with every single child. Not all kids are honor roll students, even if they are bright. Is your son in therapy for his self-esteem issues? A therapist is far more apt to be able to help him with that than educators. That isn't their field. As for tutoring, we hired our own tutors. Private tutoring is not done in public school. It would be impossible.
    I have a suggestion: If your son has motor skill problems (like my son does) perhaps more is going on than just ADHD. Have you ever taken him to see a private neuropsychologist to see? Maybe this is why he and you are so frustrated with school. ADHD does not usually stand by itself. If he also has speach and language issues perhaps, rather than just ADHD, he has other Learning Disability (LD)'s or is on the autism spectrum (Aspergers?). Maybe rather than complain about the school it would be best to evaluate your son as he may have more going on than you think, which is why he is struggling so much. I will let you ponder and back out of the thread, but felt it was important to recommend a new evaluatiion. He should be able to get by with simple accomdations if all he was battling is ADHD. My kids have many friends with ADHD and they do not require over-the-top accomodatioins so I'd check your son. Another fresh eye never hurts and NeuroPsychs are stellar. Anyway, take care.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  17. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Midwwestmom: exactly what my son needs is not over the top in any way shape or form. and what he does need is available and IS PAID FOR BY THE DOE FOR THE WEALTHY WHO CAN PAY A LAWYER! OR PAY OUT OF POCKET FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE DISABILITY ACT FAPE IDEA IEP IS THERE TO ALLOW FOR ALL STUDENTS WHO QUALIFY.
    I understand because you write it so often that you do not understand me.
    The attitude that I feel your offerings are conveying when you have mentioned again and again that TRYING HARDER and that students who have the apptitude and the knowledge can not receive the top grades that they are clearly knowledgable enough to achieve as long as they are held back in a
    system that simply adhers to privation of the specific services that the testing clearly demonstrates is responsible obligation by the public schools.
    As the facts stand I HAVE asked the schools since the original evaluation to reevaluate. I asked the priciples, the vps, the conseling staff, the Special Education and 504 staff, and one day last month I DEMANDED the form and I refused to move until it was provided.
    so now they are ready to have a evaluation meeting and I want an ed advocate in on every matter to follow because there is a vast differance between pretense and evidenced based and between a paper with a provision and the activities that do teach these capable learners what the wharehouse meathods fails to produce.
    Hence it becomes apparent that in districts where a child is presenting with the qualifications that it is manipulative nonsense when the teachers and administration are not prepared or geared for providing the IEP services that an ed attorney who DOES KNOW and who IS AWARE needs to be at those meetings for a child so that the districts whisms to buget out the services is not the prevading activity to avoid and commit fraud to the public school student.
    The jqseq. saint mcmoney who I have spoken with now on two seperate occations offered zero pro-active directive whatsoever. After seeking further I have learned from other sources after now 12 years of attending the iep meetings and 504 meetings that there are oodles of places that the doe does pay for these things specificly because the schools and the teachers and the Special Education/504 staff are NOT prepared to do so.
    And that, my dear, is about adults who are in the system who elect to withhold the fact pieces.
    Am I making myself clear?
  18. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    I have repeatedly asked for re-evaluations and I have asked for the specific means and services .
    Teachers, it is true, can not provide indivigual education needs in a large classroom .They can refer to the Special Education/504, home and recommend.
    Also when a conselor is not prepared or conectiing with a student it is up to them to refer.
    I suspect that you are not yourself familiar with success in the teaching of students with my sons learning issues. ADHD is more a dance then a 'battle'.
    And I am aware that anyone teacher, adult, can insult and harm a child at any age given the immature are not able to father in law.er the put-downs and disparaging comments that adults are so free with about them.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I am probably about to get this thread locked but I have to say this or I am going to stroke out. What is your problem? Really. I have yet to read a post that really says what the issue is with your son and school. You list him as ADHD. Sheesh...that is simple to handle....I know...I raised one and he is a very successful adult now.

    And I hate to tell you....if your son is a teen...then the "it is on them" mentality is really true. The closer they get to 18, the more important it is to teach them that fact.

    Your posts are very convoluted and hard to read. They attack everyone. I certainly cannot figure out what you want help with or what problems you have. You accuse everyone of everything. I dont know who the rage queens are or why all lawyers are bad or why Special Education is so wrong for your son. It appears that you think your son should be treated "special" but not in Special Education. Ok, that works if you can afford it, but if not, welcome to the world of most of us down in the trenches.
  20. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Janebrain: and when there are folks reflecting the malaise to help the children who are in public schools and are not able to pay out the high fees to assure that the disability act is working for them we really do need to feed the egos of the fellow who is so sure he is doing his best?
    I am talking about the problem of getting the attention but because a lawyer wants to have his ego stroked for being a good guy it is more important to tend and mend HIS armadillo skin than to reflect on the children who are legally out in the rain?
    Thanks for the save landing. I feel so sure that I am not worthy of this fine flock because after all if my childs disorder was REALLY important than I wouldn't need this place. The calvery would have shown up. Right.
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