Stands/Susan

[Suz]

This is such a great group of parents. They/we embrace each other and try to help. PE parents have been through hell and back; our motives are pure and geared only to help.

Witz mentioned the other day that you "forgot" the PMs you two had exchanged 5 weeks ago about saying NO.

It isn't the first time, of course. You seem to constantly "forget" the heartfelt lessons that these wonderful people have tried to educate you to for the last two years.

Then, on your thread dated 07-06-2009 difficult child never changes...... you said "Anyway, I had a meeting with my counselor. She suggested I tell him to write his obituary. "
http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26554


What I find particularly interesting is that you must have "forgotten" that almost year ago you said, "... thanks all! I went to my counselor last night and she said I should tell difficult child to write his own obitutary! "

8-28-08 Still having hope http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17634&highlight=standswithcourage

Ironically, I ended up closing that thread because it became inflamed.

I guess you have a short memory but your fellow members don't. Thank you to the person who alerted me to this most current lie.

I am incensed on behalf of this family who have embraced you if you are trying to make fools of us.

Suz

 

[missy44]

I wonder is Stands is simply desperate and having a hard time accepting help.

I think as parents we have as hard a time getting a "grip" as our difficult children at times. Stands might not be able to accept help at this time but I hope if she needs help she'll continue to visit the board. Obviously there are issues to work out, but if there is hope for our difficult children then there is hope for others...

just my thoughts..it is sooo frustrating for all of us. we've all been there , done that at different times. some of us handle situations well, some of us don't. some of us may suffer from mental illness, various codepenency issues, addictions...

 

[DammitJanet]

Well Im astounded! I cant imagine any therapist anywhere asking anyone to write an obit. Even if they were the therapist for the actual sub abusing or suicidle or whatever patient, I think it would be completely out of line. I would fire my therapist in a hot second if she gave me this advice and I adore her.

 

[CrazyinVA]

There are so many wonderful people on these boards who have sincerely tried to help here. How many of us have heard similar lies from our own difficult child, when we've given them advice ... "yeah, mom, I did call for a mental health/substance abuse appointment.. they told me to do x, y and z. I really get it now, I do, I'm going to change."

To be lied to in such a way by a fellow member of this board, does indeed feel like a betrayal. In fact, it reminds me to take my own advice about what to do when my own difficult child behaves this way... to close the door and walk away, until their actions match their words. The difference is, I am not related to this person.

Sorry if thats harsh, but .. I felt the need to say it.

 

[BusynMember]

JMO, but I think Susan is serious and probably doesn't "forget" but more doesn't want to remember. More than most of us, she is having a terrible time detaching.

I know some folks in real life who are caught in a fatal dance with their drug addicted child, still trying to "fix" him while they are in their 60's and should be enjoying life and the child is in his late 30's or 40's and still the drug addict/unemployed "poor thing" he was at 16. Some parents take care of these grown kids forever and never get a life. I knew one woman who said, "Other people may turn away their children (he was 32 at the time), but I NEVER will. What kind of person would I be to turn him away and not give him a meal? What kind of people are THEY?"
She really felt she had to continue to mother her 32 year old drug addict son who had been in jail three times, the last time progressing to armed robbery.
I'm going to still try to help and assume she is on the up and up. Maybe enough hammering will work...???

 

[CrazyinVA]

MWM. I don't doubt Susan's sincerity in wanting help, and her desparation in loving her son. But to make up lies so that we continue to try to help, is "crossing the line" in my book.

 

[Suz]

Some of you are missing the point entirely.

This has nothing to do with what the counselor told her and it has everything to do with the fact that Susan is repeating her posts (notice same subject almost a year apart!), I guess hoping that no one would notice.

But someone did... and many before suspected that she was doing that.

Susan isn't "forgetting." From the looks of it, she is yanking our chains and I don't like it.

Suz

 

[DammitJanet]

True Suz. I honestly thought it was my cognitive problems and that I was being slow on the uptake.

 

[susiestar]

Thanks Suz. I thought she had said that before but couldn't find a post and didn't want to point a finger with-o being sure. I truly do not feel she is seeing a therapist. It is only after repeated and pointed requests for responses about seeing a therapist that she comes up with this. I also know that many of us told her that the therapist who supposedly told her to tell her son to write an obit should be fired as the therapist was working to keep her enmeshed rather than to help her detach.

I think she just recycled old advice because she doesn't want to detach. I am upset because she has been yanking our chains for over a year. Just when she stops getting responses she starts to "get it" and then she slips up and shows us she isn't really making progress. So she then recycles old advice rather than seeing a competent therapist who will tell her the truth about her sick relationship with her "first love" - aka her difficult child.

I am disgusted and done with her. Just. Done. If others choose to post to her, that is up to them.

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks, Suz. I didn't realize it was a year apart and that there were lies. I apologize. I will back off because I have spent a lot of time worrying about her. I hate to think I waste time I can't get back .

Susan, if you are serious and want to talk to me on the phone, PM me and we can do it that way. I'm not doubting you. I just don't know what to think anymore. I do remember the Obit thing, come to think of it. I"m happy to try to help if this is on the up and up. Heck, people here helped me when I didn't think I could survive life anymore. I like to try to give back, but only if it's legit.

 

[Hound dog]

Honestly I dunno if our chains are getting yanked or not. And I certainly hope not. Because even though most of us don't ever see each other face to face, we do grow to care very much about each other here. That's why I think our board is such a unique and blessed place for parents who so very badly need that support.

But I can honestly say that not long ago I'd have believed our chains were being yanked. However, with the whold addict thing with my boyfriend and after dealing with HER family. OMG Most especially boyfriend's mother. The woman will agree with everything we discuss and not an hour later hand her daughter enough money to get a cap of heroine, knowing full well that's what the money is being used for. She'll give boyfriend her own (heavy duty here) pain medications to "help" her stave off the symptoms of withdrawl when boyfriend is supposed to be getting clean. Will continue to buy psychiatric medications when she knows boyfriend is just using them to get high.

So I guess what I'm saying is........I find Susan more believable because I know a real life version of her. boyfriend's Mom is so enabling/codependent that it is pathetic even though I know her heart is in the right place and she wants to help her daughter. She wants/tries to do the right thing but then falls back into old behavior without even realizing that's she's done it. boyfriend is a frimping pro at manipulating her mother. She's been doing it her whole life.

I dunno about the whole repeating posts part. I did look at a few since I finally figured out how to do it. lol (I'm not too bright sometimes) But I wonder if it's more that Susan can't shed the old familiar behavior in order to find the freedom of new behaviors?

I don't want to come off sounding harsh.....But I've wondered for a while now if Susan wouldn't benefit from seeing a psychiatrist of her own for herself, as well as a therapist.

I say that Susan not to be mean. As I think/hope you are trying. But unless you can get a handle on and learn to deal with your own issues first and foremost, you'll never stop falling into the old enabling/codependent behaviors that make the whole situation worse. Not one of us here are perfect. Many of us have our own issues and backgrounds/past to deal with in addition to our difficult child's. I happen to be one of them. But I can tell you Susan I would have found it a thousand times harder to parent/cope/deal with my difficult children if I hadn't taken the time to seek help for myself many years ago to deal with my own carp. It can be a scarey process, but discovering yourself in the end can/is amazing.

In your post you have a deep need to be needed. Everyone wants to be needed. But yours goes to the extreme. There is a reason behind that. It also seems to terrify you that your children be angry with you. Not sure if that has to do with the need thing or is a whole other issue. You seem to have your entire personlity wrapped up in your kids and your husband. If someone tells you to jump you ask how high. Why? Why can't you just tell them to stuff it? You crave approval, crave it. And quite honestly I think it's about to drive you crazy trying to please everyone.

I've told you many times you need to discover who Susan is. Not the wife, not the mother, not even the teacher. Susan. Simply Susan. What you really think, what you really feel without input from any outside source and without giving a d@mn what anyone else thinks.

You need to start showing difficult child by example. Words are worthless if you can't/won't walk the talk yourself.

Hugs

 

[missy44]

I'm new here and I don't know the history but I can't help but think that Stands is just "desperate" but truly visits this board to vent and get help like the rest of us.

Detachment is hard, somehow I've managed to cope but I don't always follow everyone's advice. Obviously for Stands it's been nearly impossible for her to detach.

During the past year I have had so many people completely fed up with me. Simply fed up because I didn't follow advice in a certain manner, said the same things over and over (and did the same things over and over) but it didn't mean that the words weren't sinking in, it just took alot of time.

I hate the throw in the towel and write someone off because they reposted something. It was wrong, yes, but somehow I don't think she is "pulling" anyone's chain. I think she is "sick" in her thinking. Aren't we all? When we're surrounded by chaos daily it's hard not to become part of it ourselves.

Just my two cents...

Stands.. If you reposted something (maybe you were just to tired to write something up) maybe you could just explain (not that you have to).

I do understand that many of you have been here for a long time and maybe you just can't help Stands anymore and that's understandable. But I don't think that our job is to throw her to the wolves. Just don't respond to her posts if you don't think you can help her.

Cheers.

 

[witzend]

I have no clue whether she is a troll. I have thought so in the past. I do find it odd that he son has only aged 1 year in the two years she has been with us. For the sake of argument, I'll be charitable and say she's not a troll. (In reality I'm not making a stand either way at this point. Pardon the pun.)

It's possible that certain times of year lead her to certain thoughts, and that she does forget these things until next year.

It's possible that she has a memory deficit.

It's clear that Susan can not track more than one suggestion at a time. Perhaps not even more than one sentence at a time.

It's probable that she has an organic mental health issue which makes her unable to let go of her son's issues and/or her own obsessive worrying that she has not yet identified with a professional. (I will let go for the time being that she has been advised to see a doctor for a diagnosis on herself, she has repeatedly promised us she will do so, and she never does.)

There are people here who DO need help and WILL take our advice. We wear ourselves out on Susan, and others go without advice. It's not charitable to the others.

I'd like to suggest that we let Susan - if she is for real - work with her therapist, and devote our time and energies to someone who will actually give our advice some consideration. I don't mind if someone tells me I'm full of beans as far as they are concerned. I do mind when people tell me I'm great and intelligent then throw my gift of experience on the ground as they walk away.

I totally deny the possibility that our posts to Susan are valuable to other people who might actually listen to what we are saying because it must be obvious by now that in Susan's case our advice isn't worth listening to.

I do care about the people who share their troubles and experience and advice on this board. You all put so much thought into your answers and advice to Susan, much moreso than you do for anyone else. For whatever reason, whether she's a troll or just too ill to process it, she isn't capable of absorbing and using your well thought out posts. I feel like if you MUST respond to her, you should keep it to one or two sentences, and don't bother explaining yourself. You never know what nugget she's going to glom onto.

Perhaps, like MWM, if you feel that you truly have something to offer Susan you should keep in touch by PM. It sickens and saddens me that this group has been pulled into her drama for two years now, and that at times it has divided us so. We deserve better.

 

[witzend]

My honest opinion is that if Susan is not a troll, at the very best she has a mental illness that compels her to post repeatedly thereby making her an extremely unhappy woman. Our constant efforts to help her only engage her mental illness and prevent her from seeking and getting the professional help that she so desperately needs, because she belongs to a group which gives her great advice (that she doesn't listen to or take) and she doesn't need to see a doctor.

We might as well be handing a junkie heroin. I can't ignore it when others do it, just as I couldn't ignore a real person giving a real junkie real heroin. I'm going to point out that it's wrong from time to time.

 

[standswithcourage]

Thanks but my membership is up after this. I dont know exactly what anyone is talking about. Maybe people misread my words but I will be history soon. thanks for any advice that you have given me. I just dont feel up to reading these things anymore when things get twisted around. Actually I find in ridiculous. I hope everyone does well. I am not asking for a pity party - just really humble and truthful. I have never lied especially on purpose - I am not that kind of a person and I dont like being referred to as that - far from the truth.

 

[Suz]

Susan, I expect everything has been said that needs to be said. There isn't anyone here who hasn't always wished the best for you and I'm sure that feeling will go with you. I will lock this thread.

Suz