Steam is coming out of my ears!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, May 13, 2010.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I am so tic'd I had to come home for a cooling off period. difficult child is released with a suspended sentence of 30 days in detention if he violates again. He has no mental health treatment ordered. I, on the other hand, was threatened with jail time if I don't go get the mental health evaluation that was originally ordered a year ago and comply with whatever they recommend- which I already know is dictated by whatever the courts tell them my problem is. The judge asked if I had any questions and I politely asked what they thought my problem was and said I thought I had a right to know. He said due to difficult child's continued delinquency and that he's always lived with me, there could be something psychologically wrong with my parenting.

    Well, given that difficult child doesn't need any reinforcement in his blame of me for his actions, given the things he said he intended to do last night and his desire to live in a group home, given that it's a real close call whether I'd rather be in jail or have these people take over my mental health, I'm not so sure I'll even go back over there to pick difficult child up. I was supposed to stay and wait on court orders and then go to detention to get him but I told PO that I kam leaving for a cooling off period. He said I can't leave difficult child- I said the H**L I can't. I'm going to cool off and will call over here later today to see if he's ready and determine if he's being released to me and if I'm bringing him home.

    Oh- they had a meeting before court in the courtroom with the judge and a dss person had been there and also a new, different GAL who was assigned to difficult child. I asked PO and def attny if either had spoken to difficult child this morning and both said no. So, either the mental health evaluator determined the problem was that I don't buy into MST (no surprise- she works closely with MST guy), the prosecuting attny and/or the def attny stirred all this up again. Anyway, all of it had clearly been determined before difficult child and I even were called in.

    I told PO I might end up in jail so where are they going to put difficult child then and he laughed and said I would not be going to jail. I just said well, I might be. And if difficult child has all intent of continuing down the same path and prefers to live in a group home where he thinks he has better chance of hanging out with the same kids and continuing on and the people in the system think it's my bad parenting that caused this, then have at it. That's when I told him I better leave for a cooling off period- as he stodd there chuckling.
  2. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    That is outrageous!

    Even if they think you are such a terrible parent that you caused his delinquency, you would think he at least needed therapy for help overcoming such a bad influence. Even if it is "all your fault", he is old enough that the focus needs to be on him, not you.

    It is unbelievable to me that this is their answer.
  3. Im a Believer

    Im a Believer New Member

    klmno ~ I am so sorry!

    I know how you feel - I recently went to court with my ex and felt I was "spanked" by the judge for the behavior of my children and everytime I tried to explain my ex has never helped me - It was "OBJECTED" ~

    People are so quick to point the finger and blame the parents ~ That's the problem - kids aren't expected to have any accountability anymore ~ Everyone points the finger - Everybody judges ~ Nobody knows ~

    I am just so sorry you are dealing with this ~

    You are in my prayers ~
  4. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    Klmno, forgive me, and its not an attack, but for the life of me, I just do not understand what the big deal is about you doing a mental health evaluation that the court has ordered. I know this whole court thing isn't about you, but the more you fight them and protest about their recommendations and come up with a zillion reasons about stuff that happened years ago and how you are not going to that place, or see that doctor, its only natural they are going to turn their radar towards you and start going "hmmmm" I know its irritating and annoying, but you gotta play their game to get anything done in the system. I don't know what fears you have in getting this done but it couldn't be any worse vrs what they "think" now. And, I don't know, maybe they didn't give your son any mental health orders because now they do believe its all about you because you protest too much.

    Being an adult, you don't get to blow off what the court orders, or pick and chose what we will go along with on one hand, and then expect the wraith of god to come down on the kids when they blow off court orders on the other. What message is being sent with you are willing to go to jail before you would ever have a mental health evaluation cause they are just NOT going to tell me what to do??

  5. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Marcie... I've been watching this whole thing play out and I've been going through it too with Onyxx. It's not the mental health evaluation that is really the issue - it is the fact that difficult child's behavior is repeatedly being blamed on k - .......obviously she's crazy because she won't stand for their refusal to help her child.......

    husband has been through a mental health evaluation. In court he and BM were ordered to do it, when the order actually came out it said nothing about her at all!!! So he did - and the guy said... "PTSD, nothing wrong with ya other than the fear of history repeating itself. I'd be anxious too."

    And they're doing nothing for Onyxx either. Yeah, she's on probation, but the PO wants us to LET her do things that send off HUGE red-alert warning bells in my head. I won't hijack, but the system just isn't interested in helping. They just want to blame.

    OK honestly? Say k is certifiable (which wouldn't be a surprise after all she has had to deal with...) If she suddenly "got well" or (ugh) admitted it was "all her fault" (which it IS NOT in my opinion)... Would that help difficult child? I think not.

    My $0.02. And k? FWIW, you're one of the sanest people I know.
  6. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    Even though I think the whole thing is outrageous, I do think you should go do the mental health evaluation. Just to jump through the hoops.

    I think it is important to go without being accusing or angry and just let them evaluate you at your best. Not you trying to convince them of something they don't want to hear or pointing out how outrageous this is. Go to the evaluation with the idea that you are going to focus on you and demonstrate that you are a calm, reasonable person with difficult child's best interest in mind. Trying not to even mention all the ways the system has let you and difficult child down.

    I think that is the best way to get through it. Not that I have any experience in this at all. But you have to do what you have to do to get the focus off from you.

    Just to be clear, of course I don't think it is your fault.
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    K...I know this is not what you are going to want to hear but I think you are at the point that you need to wave the white flag and just go along with whatever the court says. Do the evaluation. Its not the worst thing in the world. Unless you are a danger to self or others, no one can mandate you into a hospital against your will. If they want to diagnose you with something, oh well.

    I also think that no matter what former psychiatric evaluations have said about your son, it is clear that at this time he is clearly showing conduct disorder symptoms. The best treatment out there for conduct disorder is MST. It has been proven that it works. Now will it work with your son? Who knows. Nothing is 100%. I would give it another try though. With an open mind.

    I think you need to back way down and stop fighting. If difficult child continues to get in trouble when MST is involved and mental health is involved then the courts can draw their own conclusions.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well I see that most will not understand this and I will be judged for it. But I haven't gone to pick difficult child up and it's unlikely I will today. I suppose dss is being called in. I can only cry and miss the son I used to know. If I'm the problem, then we can cut thru this bull and they can place him where they want him to be- where they back the person up and don't blame them and focus more on whatever difficult child needs. And maybe difficult child will be happier and have a better chance of success. I have no more to give- especially when difficult child himself has sat there just last night and told me what he wants and what his intentions are.
  9. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    Step - I have gone thru the system with Danny years ago, and pretty much nothing has changed years later. Every time court rolled round (and there was a LOT of rolling back in the day), they did absolutely nothing cept to empower him to keep on keepin on. He once said to me, after I warned him about something, oh, they are not going to do **** (complete with a snap of his fingers when he was replying) After a while the paper trail caught up with him and they came down like a ton of bricks. And all during this time I was fighting to get some mental health going cause something was wrong besides ADHD, and it came out eventually that I was right. It was a LOT of aggrivation for something that if it was handled the first time in a correct manner we wouldn't have been carrying on for years back and forth. But that is how they roll, and as I have said before many times, court is PUNITIVE and they are NOT equipped and for the most part do NOT recognize any mental health issues in kids

    The ONLY way you can get any mental health help in the system is to play their game and go by their rules. Its black and white with no shades of "but". If its not on paper, it doesn't count as to who said what,why and when. Even saying that, judges, if they do any reading of a file, skim. Dan was in court on a probation violation because they found a drug in his system - it was his Ritalin - and when the judge ruled back to juvy, I stood up and said hey, thats not right. Judge looks at DA and PD and said does he take a RX? It was in his file, judge didn't know, one didn't think it was important and just wanted to get rid of him, and the other couldn't be bothered disputing any facts an I KNOW this was in the file - I documentated ad naseum, even down to someone passing gas, and judge ended up dismissing the case

    But I digress - you have to do everything the court orders, even when you know it is a hugh waste of time, energy and money - and then you get to document why its a hugh waste of time, energy and money after you do what you were ordered to do - if you fight them on stuff you are ordered to do but have refused to do, no matter how dumb you may think it is cause, after all, its not about you, you will lose and the kid loses as well.

    I totally understand K and it being the principal of the whole thing with this mental health evaluation, trust me, I do, but sometimes you just have to let stuff go so things can move in the direction you would like them to go. I did one, it was no big deal, irritating, yes, but I understood their need to "rule out mom" as the cause of difficult child going amuck, because they only have a one step at a time process

  10. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    klmno - I don't think it's a matter of judging you at all. We have the luxury of being objective observers without the emotional attachment to the situation.

    I have to agree that it's time to jump thru their hoops. Until you do, you will be the problem (in the court's eyes) and I don't see there being a chance of difficult child getting services that he needs because you're the one (again, in the court's eyes) being noncompliant and uncooperative. We all know the drill - much easier to blame the parent until there's objective evidence that it's *not* the parent.

    We've all had to jump thru hoops at one point or another, or at many points. Parenting classes, therapists who "knew best" who really didn't have a clue, teachers who could handle our kids by doing XYZ in spite of us knowing that XYZ doesn't/hasn't/never will work. Sometimes you have to sit back, do what is asked of you, and have faith that you really do know what you're doing and eventually the people in charge will clue in to that. Yes, it's a huge leap of faith but... obviously, the people who are dealing with- difficult child right now are not going to take your word nor the information from his prior evaluation.

    If you choose not to do what the court is asking of you, I think you are guaranteeing that no one will have the opportunity to really get what is going on with difficult child because it will be laid solely at your feet and they will look no further.
  11. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    k, if you truly want to give up on this, I urge you to call DSS, go down to the court and file paperwork to voluntarily surrender difficult child to foster care. If you refuse to pick him up today, there is a good chance they will charge you with child abandonment and things may get worse for you. I just don't think you need that on top of everything else, given the court's attitude toward you right now. If you file a voluntary surrender, it may be looked upon more favorably.

    I understand feeling defeated, believe me. We have all been there. Are you still seeing a therapist for yourself? I hope you've got some help for YOU all through this ordeal.

  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Marcie (and others who feel that way)- I understand what you are saying and I would be willing to go thru that process IF I didn't already know based on expperience with more than one incident that the attny's and PO tell the mental health evaluator what the outcome should be and the darn evaluators actually follow that (what I term the tail wagging the dog) and they can orders me to take medications or do whatever- which I cannot afford and am not willing to do- AND difficult child is sitting there telling me he wants to do the wildest and craziest things, he thinks a good mom should cover for him about drugs, etc. And because I already had a short experience with the MST guy and NO - there's no way I can buy into that kind of contract so difficult child will agree not to break the law. If orders are orders, then they can expect the same from difficult child. And going thru all this for four years has left me with zero faith in a system full of people in control who have no first hand experience whatsoever with raising a difficult child.

    Again, I can't say for sure that I haven't failed difficult child. What I can say for sure is that I have no faith in this revolving door working and I have no more resources and I want difficult child to have the best chance and I honestly believe with everything in my heart and brain that sending him home with this slap on the hand and sending me to mental health will only lead to worse circumstances and drag things out longer. If difficult child thinks I am the problem and those in the courts think I am the problem- then so be it. I'm not fighting it anymore. I have nothing left to fight with- not financially, emotionally or mentally.

    It appears to be a very enabling system and I can't help that. I can't control what they decide to do with difficult child. I can't control what difficult child wants. I can however stick by what I told difficult child in Department of Juvenile Justice- this was his last chance and I refuse to get bombarded with orders again for him breaking the law and completely disprespecting me and what I expect of him. He shrugged off the PO's requirements last night because he said the PO didn't stick by his threat/waarning that he'd go back to Department of Juvenile Justice and difficult child said he knew he wouldn't today. I am NOT going to participate in this any longer. I cannot believe it can possibly be in difficult child's best interest. If that makes me mentally ill then so be it. They can place difficult child somewhere else and he'll be better off if my choices are so wrong that they are causing this. We don't need to spend 6 more months on it. We don't need to wait for difficult child to pull a knife on me again. We don't need to wait for another court battle. I'll remove myself from the picture and if the sytem and difficult child blaming me all my life somehow turns him around- great. It's worth it. Problem solved.
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Cva...true. Good thinking. But consider that carefully.
  14. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thing is, k, you can't really remove yourself from the picture by refusing to pick him up. You will still be involved in a court battle, except it will be your own.

    I've had to play the game. Playing the game of following the court's, the school district's, the FAPT team's, and everyone else's recommendations even though I knew they were wrong. Thing is, that was the only way to prove to them that they were wrong, was by doing what they wanted, and letting them see that it didn't work. It took 2 years for them to see that, but eventually, they did. If you choose to turn difficult child over to the system, he loses his only advocate, you. So whether you turn him over by not picking him up, or legally by signing over your rights, it's all something to consider carefully, and not as a reaction to your disappointment at today's outcome. I know how defeated you feel, and how it seems like a "simple" answer, to just let them handle it, but truthfully, it's a very complicated answer with significant consequences to both you and difficult child.
  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Ok- calling in dss for a prarental placement is what I tried last year right before difficult child pulled a knife on me for the second time. This was after the county team refused to do anything exxcept push the PO to address the problem and punish difficult child. Anyway, it requires bringing difficult child home then going over to court services unit and signing up and they (dss) meet with the parent within 10 days. The night I did this before is when difficult child pulled the knife on me. I am not willing to go thru that again- especially since dss and others already told me that they will not allow a parental placement because 1) difficult child is involved with courts already and PO should be addressing his needs and 2) if dss takes difficult child from courts, he will go where they decide and that means my bro since our law recently changed. Today- I doubt they can get my bro up here that fast. Where they go or what they do after today is anyone's guess. difficult child has been informed and fore-warned - he was fore-warned about not being allowed to come back home, what my bro did to me, and my serious concerns about his own safety. I honestly don't know what else I could do. I tried for several years to do whatever it took to keep difficult child out of my bro's hands due to concerns for difficult child's safety. But it has reached a point where both difficult child and the system is using this above my head to keep this joke of a process rolling. At this point, I feel I have no choice but to back up and let them all take responsibility for their own choices.
  16. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    The paperwork is a motion you file with the court, not DSS. Of course they'll say no if you call them, but it's not up to them. They can debate in court what to do about it, the judge decides, not DSS. it's a CYA measure more than anything.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Crazy - you snuck in on me. We've been going thru this for 4 years already. My family put the seed of doubt that I'm the problem in these people's minds about 3 years ago. I have fought all I could while both difficult child and the system held this threat over my head. I spent thousands of dollars fighting it- I lost my job- difficult child kept bullying more and more. It's time for it to be over. If I file for parental placement, I get no attny. If they go after me, I get an attny and a say in court. Not that it matters much- the main thing is that this enabling, dysfunctional situation has to stop ASAP- for both difficult child's and my sake. difficult child wants to be emancipated- I'm not willing to follow the system's requirements and pay all restitution that keeps racking up and be blamed for it all. I've been catching it from the system, the family, and difficult child for years and it has to stop. Now. The only thing they all agree on is that I must be the problem. OK- then I can't fight that. Never mind that they all disagree on HOW I'm the problem. (Ie- I'm too easy, I'm too strict, I have MH issues, I don't care about the law, whatever). The quicker difficult child gets in a different situation, the better for ebveryone and the quicker this gets resolved. At this point, I feel so much pain that jail doesn't even phase me.
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    In our jurisdiction, filing for parental placement is thru dss howver, it is done at the juvenile courts. I did fill out the paper there last year and that is when the lady put it back on PO again- but she still had to process the paper. It didn't matter- dss wouldn't take difficult child as a parental placement and they won't now either. It's because no matter how they word it- as long as difficult child is in the courts system, they have parental authority, not me. If the courts turn him over to dss, then dss chooses where to send him- and that's probably happenning as I type this.
  19. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    K - I agree that this may be something whose time has come. At his age, he is dangerous and old enough to see the flaws in the system and work them to his advantage. He is also old enough to either defend himself against your brother or to call 911. When he was younger, he was far more vulnerable to abuse. You bought him 3-4 years of time, I hope it is enough. Also, will your brother even be interested in difficult child anymore - difficult child may be too old???

    Could you go to a mental health provider not affiliated with the court? You need in-person support.
  20. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    It is the same in our county too. Technically, we could file a petition in court to have Kanga declared a ward but we could not find an attorny who would do it for us because it would tick off CPS because they did not want to be forced to have these high-maintenance children on their caseload.