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Taking it from the top: what is the problem?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 222219" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Ropefree, you're at that difficult stage in parenting when they stop seeing you as a parent and start seeing you as a nag, a cop, a pain in the neck and a fun-wrecker. OK, we may be all of that, but with good reason. The trouble is, until they see that reason you're not going to get through.</p><p></p><p>As I see it (from what you just shared plus previous posts) you have in the past been supportve and understanding. This has also meant some leniency while he establishes himself as a responsible independent person.</p><p></p><p>Trouble is, it sounds like he and his friends took advantage of that.</p><p></p><p>Ok, consequences. That means you stepped in and closed a few gates that had been left open. Fair enough (from me) but clearly not from him, because to HIS mind, you're changing the rules on him.</p><p></p><p>Trouble is, when we apparently change the rules on our kids - we do it by clamping down on discipline and saying, "Ok, if you can't be trusted to be responsible then we have to go back to treating you like a little kid and checking up on you all the time, limiting your chance to Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) about and so on."</p><p></p><p>But it's like putting the genie back in the bottle - all it does is breed resentment. And when the kids are feeling resentful, they're not learning a darn thing. All that happens is they keep testing the limits even harder, throw even more sulks, make our lives miserable and eventually either wear down our defences or break away.</p><p></p><p>So we come to the one thing that has worked for me - turn your child into your flatmate. I've mentioned this to you before, and when all else fails, this is always worth trying. Your child wants adult responsibilities because after all, as soon as he turns 18 he will be off. That's what they all either say, or think. But as I have said to my kids, "Sonny Jim, you reckon you're capable of looking after yourself in the big bad world. You reckon you will find a bunk somewhere with friends, you will have no trouble living alone. OK, time to start is NOW. Because if you don't let me teach you how to look after your own affairs and how to be a responsible, considerate and popular flatmate, you will find it VERY difficult to manage because sooner rather than later you will wear out your welcome."</p><p></p><p>You can even add, "I want you gone sooner rather than later. I NEED you to be a success at living independently, because if you are NOT a success, it means I get stuck with you having to move back home."</p><p></p><p>You don't have to be mean about it, you just have to be logical. By this age you should be able to talk to your son at least superficially, and be able to communicate. You should be able to discuss politics (after all, he will be old enough to vote very soon). He has already seen how you can fight for what needs to be fought for. He mightn't be good at it yet, but he needs to know to ask for help if he needs it and to know WHEN to ask for help.</p><p></p><p>Here are some past threads where I've described this. I haven't included any threads which were addressed specifically to you, because I figured you already would have easy access to those. I think I definitely have to include tis topic as an entire chapter to itself in the book I'm working on!</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20258&highlight=child+flatmate+independent" target="_blank">http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20258&highlight=child+flatmate+independent</a></p><p></p><p>I also found a chunk from a thread to someone else, where I've summarised this as best as I can. I think it perhaps says it better overall than I've been able to post for you.</p><p></p><p>'A flatmate is respected. As flatmates, you tell each other where you are going and when you will be back. This is so household activities can take people's movements into account (such as who will be home for dinner, and when to send out a search party). As flatmates, if it's your turn to cook dinner you find out what people are prepared to eat and cater accordingly. As flatmates, if someone doesn't like what you cook, they are free to take over kitchen duties and organise the meals. As flatmates, we take turns, we work as a team, to comply with landlord inspections. We support one another in cleaning the bathrooms, doing the laundry, washing the floor etc. We note every product we use and put it on the shopping list. We put our washing in the laundry (or wherever it's been decided dirty washing is to go). We do whatever chores are needed, each according to ability and time available.</p><p>As flatmates, failure to comply with house rules can lead to eviction. Or at the very least, loss of any special treatment or support. "Why should I go to the trouble of cooking your favourite food, if you are rude to me about my cooking? If you don't like what I cook, then you can take over planning the meals for everyone. This includes shopping to a tight budget."</p><p></p><p>When our kids grow up we expect them to be able to survive in the big bad world, with other people. We are successful parents when our children are able to leave home and live happy, fulfilled, productive and independent lives. The "Explosive Child" methods can actually fast-track this, by teaching them to take responsibility and control in their own lives, often much younger than we would have thought. A lot of the frustration in difficult children comes from not being able to control anything in their lives. This technique allows them control, in areas we frankly don't care about, and in doing so they learn control in general instead of having control imposed on them.</p><p></p><p>It's like teaching your child to walk; or more accurately, allowing your child to learn when they are ready, but with your hands hovering nearby in case they begin to wobble a bit.</p><p></p><p>If we respond to 'rudeness' and absolutely every small infraction with strict control, we can undermine a lot of good progress without actually teaching anything useful. It can also seem, especially to a difficult child, that we are doing it because we CAN, because we're the adults and we have the control. This builds resentment and makes the problems worse.</p><p></p><p>And if we're honest with each other, there is something very satisfying in having the final authority over a child who is smart-mouthing us. "Go to your room!" announced almost triumphantly can give us a sense of, "At least I've got the last word now; I'll have a couple of minutes' peace and then hopefully she'll apologise, I'll say my piece about respecting your parents and for a little while longer she will know her place." '</p><p></p><p>Whenever we're dealing with our child we need to keep eye focus on the long term, not the quick solution for now. We need to look beneath the surface and if we have to ban someone, we need to give reasons.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 had three close friends at school; he had met them all at a "Brat Camp" set-up organised by the school for difficult kids. Instead of really teaching these kids anything much of use, they created a clique of really weird kids which actually made them MORE socially isolated. difficult child 1's last shreds of friendship with the 'normal' kids went out the window after that camp.</p><p>His new friends - all had problems. At the parents' sessions we had met the parent figures for the other boys and drew our own conclusions as to why they had problems. One boy was clearly similar to difficult child 1 in diagnosis, but had an uncontrolled temper when anxious. He was physically big, could be very scary.</p><p>Another boy was from a wealthy family but never fitted in with other kids, he didn't know how to behave appropriately. His mother simply couldn't direct him; the boy would smart-mouth the mother and she would shout back at him, but generally not getting the last word.</p><p>The third boy was VERY aggressive, at times violent, using a lot of bad language but otherwise not a criminal-type. Loyal to difficult child 1.</p><p></p><p>I cautiously allowed all three boys into my home. However difficult child 3, barely school-age at the time, was wanting to tag along with his adored big brother's friends. Two of them (the last two I mentioned) I felt were dangerously inappropriate with difficult child 3. One made violent threats to him. While I recognised the threats as pure bluff and social inappropriateness, I still wasn't going to stand for it and those two were banned form being inside our home, until further notice. It was too important to me that difficult child 3 be treated with respect and that he feel safe in his own home. Ironically the big bloke, the one the teachers at school were most afraid of, was never a problem for me (he was the one who was recently Best Man at difficult child 1's wedding).</p><p></p><p>Sometimes difficult child 1 tried to bring these boys home from school. I made it clear - they were not permitted inside our home until I felt they could be trusted around difficult child 3. So difficult child 1 would sit outside with his friends and talk.</p><p></p><p>One day difficult child 1 was given an old TV by a man in the street (who was throwing it out). difficult child 1 wanted that TV to play games on, but needed help to carry it. His friends offered to help and came all the way home with him (expensive by public transport, also took a lot of time) just to help carry that darn TV. They both said to me, "It's OK Mrs Marg, we won't come inside. We're just here to help difficult child 1 then we're going home again."</p><p></p><p>I invited them back in and since then they have behaved themselves well for me.</p><p></p><p>But the entire time - I explained to difficult child 1 what my reasons were, I at no time tried to control difficult child 1's choice of friends, I discussed it with him but made it clear - even though I know his friends didn't mean to upset me, they did. And difficult child 3 as such a young, vulnerable child with the diagnosis of autism, HAD to feel safe in his own home. The important thing here wasn't what people MEANT, but how it was interpreted by the most vulnerable person in the room. "The chain is no stronger than its weakest link."</p><p></p><p>You need to give way, in the RIGHT direction, in order to prevent him going in the WRONG direction. Some of the way you need to give will NOT be to your liking but it always is a compromise. Make it clear to your son that you ARE compromising, so he doesn't see it as his right all the time. Discuss, negotiate, make agreements, follow through, communicate.</p><p></p><p>It's tedious at times, cumbersome at times, frustrating a lot of the time, but worth it in the long run.</p><p></p><p>You're on your own, which makes it more difficult in some ways. You're dealing with your own disability, which can make you sometimes too tired to follow through. But your disability can also be a very good reason for NEEDING him to cooperate.</p><p></p><p>Living under the same roof requires teamwork. He will benefit from this - he needs to see that. He won't be good at teamwork - you need to give him some understanding. But not necessarily any slack. If he fails to put his washing in the laundry, then it won't get done. If he fails to pull his weight, then you will not feel like going to any extra trouble for him. But if he DOES pull his weight, then be good to him in return. After all, if he saves you the effort of cooking dinner, then you have more energy left over to do his laundry. </p><p></p><p>Quid pro quo.</p><p></p><p>It works.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 222219, member: 1991"] Ropefree, you're at that difficult stage in parenting when they stop seeing you as a parent and start seeing you as a nag, a cop, a pain in the neck and a fun-wrecker. OK, we may be all of that, but with good reason. The trouble is, until they see that reason you're not going to get through. As I see it (from what you just shared plus previous posts) you have in the past been supportve and understanding. This has also meant some leniency while he establishes himself as a responsible independent person. Trouble is, it sounds like he and his friends took advantage of that. Ok, consequences. That means you stepped in and closed a few gates that had been left open. Fair enough (from me) but clearly not from him, because to HIS mind, you're changing the rules on him. Trouble is, when we apparently change the rules on our kids - we do it by clamping down on discipline and saying, "Ok, if you can't be trusted to be responsible then we have to go back to treating you like a little kid and checking up on you all the time, limiting your chance to Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) about and so on." But it's like putting the genie back in the bottle - all it does is breed resentment. And when the kids are feeling resentful, they're not learning a darn thing. All that happens is they keep testing the limits even harder, throw even more sulks, make our lives miserable and eventually either wear down our defences or break away. So we come to the one thing that has worked for me - turn your child into your flatmate. I've mentioned this to you before, and when all else fails, this is always worth trying. Your child wants adult responsibilities because after all, as soon as he turns 18 he will be off. That's what they all either say, or think. But as I have said to my kids, "Sonny Jim, you reckon you're capable of looking after yourself in the big bad world. You reckon you will find a bunk somewhere with friends, you will have no trouble living alone. OK, time to start is NOW. Because if you don't let me teach you how to look after your own affairs and how to be a responsible, considerate and popular flatmate, you will find it VERY difficult to manage because sooner rather than later you will wear out your welcome." You can even add, "I want you gone sooner rather than later. I NEED you to be a success at living independently, because if you are NOT a success, it means I get stuck with you having to move back home." You don't have to be mean about it, you just have to be logical. By this age you should be able to talk to your son at least superficially, and be able to communicate. You should be able to discuss politics (after all, he will be old enough to vote very soon). He has already seen how you can fight for what needs to be fought for. He mightn't be good at it yet, but he needs to know to ask for help if he needs it and to know WHEN to ask for help. Here are some past threads where I've described this. I haven't included any threads which were addressed specifically to you, because I figured you already would have easy access to those. I think I definitely have to include tis topic as an entire chapter to itself in the book I'm working on! [url]http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20258&highlight=child+flatmate+independent[/url] I also found a chunk from a thread to someone else, where I've summarised this as best as I can. I think it perhaps says it better overall than I've been able to post for you. 'A flatmate is respected. As flatmates, you tell each other where you are going and when you will be back. This is so household activities can take people's movements into account (such as who will be home for dinner, and when to send out a search party). As flatmates, if it's your turn to cook dinner you find out what people are prepared to eat and cater accordingly. As flatmates, if someone doesn't like what you cook, they are free to take over kitchen duties and organise the meals. As flatmates, we take turns, we work as a team, to comply with landlord inspections. We support one another in cleaning the bathrooms, doing the laundry, washing the floor etc. We note every product we use and put it on the shopping list. We put our washing in the laundry (or wherever it's been decided dirty washing is to go). We do whatever chores are needed, each according to ability and time available. As flatmates, failure to comply with house rules can lead to eviction. Or at the very least, loss of any special treatment or support. "Why should I go to the trouble of cooking your favourite food, if you are rude to me about my cooking? If you don't like what I cook, then you can take over planning the meals for everyone. This includes shopping to a tight budget." When our kids grow up we expect them to be able to survive in the big bad world, with other people. We are successful parents when our children are able to leave home and live happy, fulfilled, productive and independent lives. The "Explosive Child" methods can actually fast-track this, by teaching them to take responsibility and control in their own lives, often much younger than we would have thought. A lot of the frustration in difficult children comes from not being able to control anything in their lives. This technique allows them control, in areas we frankly don't care about, and in doing so they learn control in general instead of having control imposed on them. It's like teaching your child to walk; or more accurately, allowing your child to learn when they are ready, but with your hands hovering nearby in case they begin to wobble a bit. If we respond to 'rudeness' and absolutely every small infraction with strict control, we can undermine a lot of good progress without actually teaching anything useful. It can also seem, especially to a difficult child, that we are doing it because we CAN, because we're the adults and we have the control. This builds resentment and makes the problems worse. And if we're honest with each other, there is something very satisfying in having the final authority over a child who is smart-mouthing us. "Go to your room!" announced almost triumphantly can give us a sense of, "At least I've got the last word now; I'll have a couple of minutes' peace and then hopefully she'll apologise, I'll say my piece about respecting your parents and for a little while longer she will know her place." ' Whenever we're dealing with our child we need to keep eye focus on the long term, not the quick solution for now. We need to look beneath the surface and if we have to ban someone, we need to give reasons. difficult child 1 had three close friends at school; he had met them all at a "Brat Camp" set-up organised by the school for difficult kids. Instead of really teaching these kids anything much of use, they created a clique of really weird kids which actually made them MORE socially isolated. difficult child 1's last shreds of friendship with the 'normal' kids went out the window after that camp. His new friends - all had problems. At the parents' sessions we had met the parent figures for the other boys and drew our own conclusions as to why they had problems. One boy was clearly similar to difficult child 1 in diagnosis, but had an uncontrolled temper when anxious. He was physically big, could be very scary. Another boy was from a wealthy family but never fitted in with other kids, he didn't know how to behave appropriately. His mother simply couldn't direct him; the boy would smart-mouth the mother and she would shout back at him, but generally not getting the last word. The third boy was VERY aggressive, at times violent, using a lot of bad language but otherwise not a criminal-type. Loyal to difficult child 1. I cautiously allowed all three boys into my home. However difficult child 3, barely school-age at the time, was wanting to tag along with his adored big brother's friends. Two of them (the last two I mentioned) I felt were dangerously inappropriate with difficult child 3. One made violent threats to him. While I recognised the threats as pure bluff and social inappropriateness, I still wasn't going to stand for it and those two were banned form being inside our home, until further notice. It was too important to me that difficult child 3 be treated with respect and that he feel safe in his own home. Ironically the big bloke, the one the teachers at school were most afraid of, was never a problem for me (he was the one who was recently Best Man at difficult child 1's wedding). Sometimes difficult child 1 tried to bring these boys home from school. I made it clear - they were not permitted inside our home until I felt they could be trusted around difficult child 3. So difficult child 1 would sit outside with his friends and talk. One day difficult child 1 was given an old TV by a man in the street (who was throwing it out). difficult child 1 wanted that TV to play games on, but needed help to carry it. His friends offered to help and came all the way home with him (expensive by public transport, also took a lot of time) just to help carry that darn TV. They both said to me, "It's OK Mrs Marg, we won't come inside. We're just here to help difficult child 1 then we're going home again." I invited them back in and since then they have behaved themselves well for me. But the entire time - I explained to difficult child 1 what my reasons were, I at no time tried to control difficult child 1's choice of friends, I discussed it with him but made it clear - even though I know his friends didn't mean to upset me, they did. And difficult child 3 as such a young, vulnerable child with the diagnosis of autism, HAD to feel safe in his own home. The important thing here wasn't what people MEANT, but how it was interpreted by the most vulnerable person in the room. "The chain is no stronger than its weakest link." You need to give way, in the RIGHT direction, in order to prevent him going in the WRONG direction. Some of the way you need to give will NOT be to your liking but it always is a compromise. Make it clear to your son that you ARE compromising, so he doesn't see it as his right all the time. Discuss, negotiate, make agreements, follow through, communicate. It's tedious at times, cumbersome at times, frustrating a lot of the time, but worth it in the long run. You're on your own, which makes it more difficult in some ways. You're dealing with your own disability, which can make you sometimes too tired to follow through. But your disability can also be a very good reason for NEEDING him to cooperate. Living under the same roof requires teamwork. He will benefit from this - he needs to see that. He won't be good at teamwork - you need to give him some understanding. But not necessarily any slack. If he fails to put his washing in the laundry, then it won't get done. If he fails to pull his weight, then you will not feel like going to any extra trouble for him. But if he DOES pull his weight, then be good to him in return. After all, if he saves you the effort of cooking dinner, then you have more energy left over to do his laundry. Quid pro quo. It works. Marg [/QUOTE]
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