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Taking it from the top: what is the problem?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 222430" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Actually, Ropefree, I agree with you that your son is a terrific kid. From what you have shared about him he seems to want to help people, to care about them. The trouble is, he sounds like he's trying to help people whose lifestyle is just so very different from his home life that he (your son" is very vulnerable (but would never accept this information). He MAY seem to them like a nice bloke who can make a few things possible for them, or it may be that they want a taste of what you have provided for your son, or it may be that they see him as a patsy who can be milked for whatever they can et out of him.</p><p></p><p>I think the curfew etc are really good things. And of course, tis means you have the same curfew, because otherwise how else would you know if he was obeying the rules?</p><p></p><p>With the silent treatment etc, this is NOT tolerable. If you allow him to use this as a means to manipulate, then he will carry this through into his adult life and will make some poor unsuspecting partner in the future, suffer in the same way. I understand your not wanting to engage when he is being like this, but you need to avoid the possible accusation from him that you are giving back what he is dishing out. </p><p></p><p>My father used to do the silent treatment occasionally. My mother's way of handling it was with humour. It was very effective.</p><p></p><p>Example: I don't know why (maybe my mother did) but for some reason, my father had taken himself out to his workshop and was busy pottering around in there and wouldn't come out. It may have been a disagreement between my parents; I don't know. But he didn't come inside for his morning tea, when my mother sent me out to let him know it was ready. His tea eventually went cold; she poured it down the sink. She put the biscuits back in the tin then set about preparing lunch.</p><p></p><p>Lunchtime came. Dad still hadn't come inside. Mum sent me out to let him know. He answered me (as he had when I told him about his morning tea) but was gruff and short, as he had been before.</p><p>For lunch Mum had fixed some salad. That starts out cold and doesn't need to be kept warm. </p><p>We waited for Dad. In those days, Dad was the head of the household and we NEVER ate without him with us, unless he was at work. But this day, he still wouldn't come inside, nor would he come and say, "Start without me, I'll be a while."</p><p></p><p>So by 2 pm we sat down and started to eat without him. By this stage Mum had wised me up; Dad had the cranks for some reason and was wanting to make us feel guilty (for some reason) and was also trying to show what a hard worker he was, what a martyr he was, and try to make us feel sorry for him. It was a scorching hot day outside and there he was slaving away over fence posts, fixing the gate, hammering in star pickets - generally doing all the heavy jobs we normally would have left until the cooler hours.</p><p></p><p>Mum & I were sitting in the dining room chattering happily about something when he walked past the window. He saw us eating (while trying not to look) and heard us laughing. Mum quietly jogged my elbow, we carefully didn't look at him (although I watched his retreating back in the mirror reflecting through the window).</p><p></p><p>Five minutes later he came inside for his lunch. Mum didn't scold him or say anything triumphant, she merely got up from the table and fetched his salad from the fridge, put it down in front of him and then poured him a cold drink. Nothing was said, but there was still a lot of communication going on. The main message was, "You can sulk all you like but you can't make me feel bad if I don't choose to."</p><p></p><p>By the time lunch was over it was all forgotten, Dad was happy again and he and Mum were talking about whatever it is that parents talk about.</p><p></p><p>So what I suggest, and I'm sure you know what I mean - HE needs to know that you are not letting HIS mood affect YOU. But if you are also silent, he needs to know that it's not in retaliation, but more in accord. Maybe you can chatter a little, in ways that do not require any answers. Pass on family 'gossip' ("Just thought I'd let you know; Nancy had her baby last night. She's had a boy, he's doing fine. I'm thinking of going over to visit this afternoon. Let me know if you want to come along too. Your choice, of course.")</p><p>You can throw in comments like, "I'm planning to make chili for dinner; if you don't want chili then say so and I'll make you some bolognese."</p><p>The choice is there; but a failure to communicate from him, is also a communication because by NOT communicating, he is making a choice.</p><p></p><p>Sneaky, but effective.</p><p></p><p>I have found, when I've had kids who were giving me the silent treatment (easy child 2/difficult child 2 would do this; frankly I was glad of her silence) that if I just carried on like this as if nothing was wrong, eventually they'd crack. They'd either pick up my cue and drop their hostility, pretending that nothing had been wrong, or (most often easy child 2/difficult child 2) they would burst out with, "We need to talk about this."</p><p></p><p>If the kid is REALLY being ridiculous and it threatens to drag on for a stupid length of time, I have been known to turn to the kid and say, "OK, time out. Enough of this, it's not appropriate behaviour for someone your age." (I know, I keep telling people to not say "for your age" to your kids, but sometimes you have to). "Now we are going to talk. Or if you won't talk, then you can darn well listen."</p><p>If I feel that they are angry at me and the situation warrants it, I WILL apologise. But usually it's, "I am sorry if you feel I hurt you. I didn't intend to hurt you. I was trying to do the following..."</p><p>If there is still no response you at least have the satisfaction of having said your piece. And you can conclude with, "If you need to respond, now is the time. If you do not respond now, then that tells me that you feel it has all been said. if so, I am glad of that. It means it is all resolved. Thank you for your time."</p><p>You then turn your back and go back to whatever you were doing. </p><p></p><p>Any kid who is STILL giving you the silent treatment after that, needs time to work it out for himself in his own head. You need not feel in the slightest guilty, you have done what you could do. ANd there is no way he can ever then accuse you of not trying to communicate.</p><p></p><p>Some kids are not good at conflict resolution. They need us to show them the way, and to pull them out of their wrong tactics before they become a bad habit.</p><p></p><p>My sister in law is married to a bloke who 'argues' this way sometimes. He can be a nasty piece of work, passive-aggressive. His mother was erratic and passive-aggressive. I won't stand for it, although if it is someone "out of my jurisdiction" I usually leave the room so they have nobody to sulk at. Passive-aggressives LOVE an audience, especially an audience who will fall all over them trying to placate them (as my sister in law has done). You give a passive-aggressive that sort of attention and they get the payoff they're looking for. It all harks back to the sad little boy who lost his ball down the drain and stood around looking sad until someone gave him a sweetie. Then he still looked sad so they gave him another sweetie and a new ball. By now it was paying off so he stood in front of ANOTHER drain and told his sad story and got more sweeties and another ball.</p><p></p><p>You get the picture.</p><p></p><p>There are ways, and there are ways... but a child who wants to be treated like an adult, and who needs the adult experience but with training wheels, needs to learn to NOT sulk to get his own way.</p><p></p><p>And although we're taking about someone who should be behaving in a more adult fashion, he IS still a child and you are the adult. So sadly, we do (as the parents) have to find our own (effective) way of not buying into their drama and playing the role they have cast for us.</p><p></p><p>Ropefree, you do sound like you're doing a really good job with him. Keep telling yourself that. He needs to know this and one day he WILL know this. But he also needs to learn to communicate more effectively. Words are always much better for this, than silence.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 222430, member: 1991"] Actually, Ropefree, I agree with you that your son is a terrific kid. From what you have shared about him he seems to want to help people, to care about them. The trouble is, he sounds like he's trying to help people whose lifestyle is just so very different from his home life that he (your son" is very vulnerable (but would never accept this information). He MAY seem to them like a nice bloke who can make a few things possible for them, or it may be that they want a taste of what you have provided for your son, or it may be that they see him as a patsy who can be milked for whatever they can et out of him. I think the curfew etc are really good things. And of course, tis means you have the same curfew, because otherwise how else would you know if he was obeying the rules? With the silent treatment etc, this is NOT tolerable. If you allow him to use this as a means to manipulate, then he will carry this through into his adult life and will make some poor unsuspecting partner in the future, suffer in the same way. I understand your not wanting to engage when he is being like this, but you need to avoid the possible accusation from him that you are giving back what he is dishing out. My father used to do the silent treatment occasionally. My mother's way of handling it was with humour. It was very effective. Example: I don't know why (maybe my mother did) but for some reason, my father had taken himself out to his workshop and was busy pottering around in there and wouldn't come out. It may have been a disagreement between my parents; I don't know. But he didn't come inside for his morning tea, when my mother sent me out to let him know it was ready. His tea eventually went cold; she poured it down the sink. She put the biscuits back in the tin then set about preparing lunch. Lunchtime came. Dad still hadn't come inside. Mum sent me out to let him know. He answered me (as he had when I told him about his morning tea) but was gruff and short, as he had been before. For lunch Mum had fixed some salad. That starts out cold and doesn't need to be kept warm. We waited for Dad. In those days, Dad was the head of the household and we NEVER ate without him with us, unless he was at work. But this day, he still wouldn't come inside, nor would he come and say, "Start without me, I'll be a while." So by 2 pm we sat down and started to eat without him. By this stage Mum had wised me up; Dad had the cranks for some reason and was wanting to make us feel guilty (for some reason) and was also trying to show what a hard worker he was, what a martyr he was, and try to make us feel sorry for him. It was a scorching hot day outside and there he was slaving away over fence posts, fixing the gate, hammering in star pickets - generally doing all the heavy jobs we normally would have left until the cooler hours. Mum & I were sitting in the dining room chattering happily about something when he walked past the window. He saw us eating (while trying not to look) and heard us laughing. Mum quietly jogged my elbow, we carefully didn't look at him (although I watched his retreating back in the mirror reflecting through the window). Five minutes later he came inside for his lunch. Mum didn't scold him or say anything triumphant, she merely got up from the table and fetched his salad from the fridge, put it down in front of him and then poured him a cold drink. Nothing was said, but there was still a lot of communication going on. The main message was, "You can sulk all you like but you can't make me feel bad if I don't choose to." By the time lunch was over it was all forgotten, Dad was happy again and he and Mum were talking about whatever it is that parents talk about. So what I suggest, and I'm sure you know what I mean - HE needs to know that you are not letting HIS mood affect YOU. But if you are also silent, he needs to know that it's not in retaliation, but more in accord. Maybe you can chatter a little, in ways that do not require any answers. Pass on family 'gossip' ("Just thought I'd let you know; Nancy had her baby last night. She's had a boy, he's doing fine. I'm thinking of going over to visit this afternoon. Let me know if you want to come along too. Your choice, of course.") You can throw in comments like, "I'm planning to make chili for dinner; if you don't want chili then say so and I'll make you some bolognese." The choice is there; but a failure to communicate from him, is also a communication because by NOT communicating, he is making a choice. Sneaky, but effective. I have found, when I've had kids who were giving me the silent treatment (easy child 2/difficult child 2 would do this; frankly I was glad of her silence) that if I just carried on like this as if nothing was wrong, eventually they'd crack. They'd either pick up my cue and drop their hostility, pretending that nothing had been wrong, or (most often easy child 2/difficult child 2) they would burst out with, "We need to talk about this." If the kid is REALLY being ridiculous and it threatens to drag on for a stupid length of time, I have been known to turn to the kid and say, "OK, time out. Enough of this, it's not appropriate behaviour for someone your age." (I know, I keep telling people to not say "for your age" to your kids, but sometimes you have to). "Now we are going to talk. Or if you won't talk, then you can darn well listen." If I feel that they are angry at me and the situation warrants it, I WILL apologise. But usually it's, "I am sorry if you feel I hurt you. I didn't intend to hurt you. I was trying to do the following..." If there is still no response you at least have the satisfaction of having said your piece. And you can conclude with, "If you need to respond, now is the time. If you do not respond now, then that tells me that you feel it has all been said. if so, I am glad of that. It means it is all resolved. Thank you for your time." You then turn your back and go back to whatever you were doing. Any kid who is STILL giving you the silent treatment after that, needs time to work it out for himself in his own head. You need not feel in the slightest guilty, you have done what you could do. ANd there is no way he can ever then accuse you of not trying to communicate. Some kids are not good at conflict resolution. They need us to show them the way, and to pull them out of their wrong tactics before they become a bad habit. My sister in law is married to a bloke who 'argues' this way sometimes. He can be a nasty piece of work, passive-aggressive. His mother was erratic and passive-aggressive. I won't stand for it, although if it is someone "out of my jurisdiction" I usually leave the room so they have nobody to sulk at. Passive-aggressives LOVE an audience, especially an audience who will fall all over them trying to placate them (as my sister in law has done). You give a passive-aggressive that sort of attention and they get the payoff they're looking for. It all harks back to the sad little boy who lost his ball down the drain and stood around looking sad until someone gave him a sweetie. Then he still looked sad so they gave him another sweetie and a new ball. By now it was paying off so he stood in front of ANOTHER drain and told his sad story and got more sweeties and another ball. You get the picture. There are ways, and there are ways... but a child who wants to be treated like an adult, and who needs the adult experience but with training wheels, needs to learn to NOT sulk to get his own way. And although we're taking about someone who should be behaving in a more adult fashion, he IS still a child and you are the adult. So sadly, we do (as the parents) have to find our own (effective) way of not buying into their drama and playing the role they have cast for us. Ropefree, you do sound like you're doing a really good job with him. Keep telling yourself that. He needs to know this and one day he WILL know this. But he also needs to learn to communicate more effectively. Words are always much better for this, than silence. Marg [/QUOTE]
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