Talk about guilt--will this family ever heal?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by TerryJ2, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    difficult child has been home every night, and has gone to school. Um, sort of.

    Sunday, his ex, D, was here. He bugged me to take him to the grocery store. I re-injured my leg and was exhausted. No. So he tried to negotiate for the car. No. He even put his cigs on the counter as proof he wouldn't smoke in the car. (Only one pack left!) No. Please, just take me ... I worked on gathering papers for taxes. After an hour, I caved. He was in the driver's seat, while I brought a pile of folders and tax stuff in the car to work on.
    Less than 10 min. He gets back in car.
    "What did you buy?"
    Shrugs his shoulders. I see his hand in his pocket.
    D is in the back seat, her nose in her iphone.

    Later that night, midnight or so, I go to take my medications. Refilled Xanax on the 7th. 30 pills. I count 20. Recount. 20+1/2. Recount. Do the math. 7,8,9,10,11,12. Six days. That should be six, or less, since I bite them in half. If I take them at all. But I know I took whole ones three nights in a row. I've gone for yrs hardly using them, but the last 3 mo's have been hell. And I was missing a lot last mo, too. Recount.
    Try to fall asleep.

    Recall: Grocery store. Rushing. Won't tell me what he bought.
    He sold my medications.
    Fall asleep with-heart pounding around 3 a.m.

    Next day, 12 hrs later:
    difficult child drives up with-girlfriend, H.
    Gets out of car, smiling. "Hi!" he waves.
    I am sitting on a bench, in pain with-my leg.
    "Have a seat."

    "I know what you did at the grocery store. You didn't buy anything."
    "You sold something."
    "No I didn't. I bought a phone. You can ask D. She was there."
    "She was in the car with me."
    "No she wasn't. She was in the store with me. You can ask her."

    He runs into house, I hobble after him. He's got a new phone. Cheap. Not activated.

    "Why didn't you tell me?"
    "Because I thought you'd get mad."
    "Where's the pkg?"
    "In the trash right outside the door of the grocery store."

    At this point, I am lying on the floor, massaging my hamstring.
    (How much of this stress is psycho-physical-whatever?)

    "I was going to buy you a basic text and talk, but--"

    "Don't get rid of my old phone! It has pictures of H! And my games! And I need the information on it!" He ramps up and up and up and I can see it's too late.
    Yelling, screaming, F-this, sh-- that, ffffff, spitting in my face.
    "You can ask D! She was in there with me!"

    "NO, she was in the car with me."
    "No, she was with me. I had to talk to the manager because they didn't have the phone I'd picked out and I got this cheap one instead."

    "No, she was in the car with me." Gaslighting ....
    He explodes and whales the phone onto the parquet floor. The phone flies apart.


    I limp out of the house, crying. H opens the car door, and I call to her.
    "Help me. I just need a witness. He is verbally abusive and I can't take this any more."

    difficult child comes flying out, spewing the f-word. H puts her hand on his mouth and her other hand on my shoulder.
    "I can see you are afraid. You're trembling," she says. "Go. I'll take care of this."
    difficult child is about 10 ft away.
    I whisper, "You know he's on medication, right?"
    "Yes, I do."

    "I'm leaving and never coming back!" he screams. "I mean it this time!"

    I nod, go into the house, then leave for a massage. (Coincidentally, but great timing.)
    On the way, I call D's mom and ask to speak with-D.
    "Did you go inside the grocery store yesterday?"

    "Did difficult child buy a phone?"
    "I don't know. I was looking at candy."
    "Were there any other friends that he talked to?"
    "No, I didn't see any."

    She went in with him. Okay. Deep breath. I was fretting about taxes. I hate taxes. I keep losing things. Including my mind.

    After the massage, I go to the grocery store and ask if they sell phones. Not a phone in sight.

    "Yes, but we sold the last one the other day."
    "Yes, come to think of it. There was just one left, and the manager had to get it from the back."
    "How much?"
    "About $35."

    He only had $25 on the gift card and I know he spent most of it.
    Where did the money come from? What did he sell? Pawn?

    The next night, they are both at my house.
    "Where did you get the extra money to buy the phone?"
    "D gave it to me."
    She's sitting right there.
    Is she covering for him?

    Geez. She's sick of him using her phone all the time. And, like him, she doesn't think to save the money or to use it for healthy food. She buys candy and electronics. She's 16, after all.
    She is so dependent upon him it's sick. She is so in love. And he is so unfeeling about other people's feelings. No theory of mind at all. He left the house that night to spend an hour with his new girlfriend, H, and left D at our house.
    "That's weird. That's not right. How can you DO that? If I were D, I would have strangled you by now."
    He shrugged his shoulders.

    I apologized for accusing him. I told him that his behavior has caused me to mistrust him and that it is going to take a long time to regain that trust. And that lying on his part makes it worse.
    He doesn't see that.
    He's mad because I involved H.
    He's mad because I dissed him in front of her. Hey, I just dissed him.
    He's GOT to get out of that mindset. It's cultural with-his gang/pothead pals, but it's also almost sociopathic--totally narcissistic.

    I called easy child and explained the situation.

    (husband does NOT know about the medications doubts ...)

    "I think it's a little bit of each," she said. "You are forgetful, and you've been more forgetful lately. But he has been stealing. And his reaction was totally overboard. But maybe it's the bipolar.Or he's having trouble coming down from the high from last week. I can see both. I think it's stress on both parts."

    I have an appointment with a therapist on Thursday. I hope she writes me a prescription for a 2-month vacation in the lavender fields of Provence.
    I wish difficult child would go to therapy.

    I walked outside around 11:30 today. H's car was in the driveway! She and difficult child were there.

    "What's wrong?"

    "I'm coming home for the rest of the day," difficult child said.

    H asks me how I am, I thank her. She says, "Anything I can do ... "
    And now I have her phone number. ;)

    Inside, difficult child told me that last night tore him up. He said he couldn't deal with people today. He is outside walking.

    I wanted to say, "You reap what you sow." But of course, I didn't.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm u talk to him too much and try to find the truth. And excuse me. I thought he was banned from phones. He bought one? And when my son acted the way yours did in my house he never was allowed to return.dcs b behavior is beyond what therapy sessions will fix. Bipolar? Unless he is psychotic he knows what he is doing. Why give in to him just because he nag?
    Terry,nothing will change until u do. What u are doing now isn't workinh. Religiosity or atjeist, AL anon has a great message. I would go. I'm not religious but the common sense and support saved us all. We didn't know what to do either. Hugs! I don't text well on phone. Hope it's understandable.
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  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    He would have walked there and purchased it anyway. But at least I wouldn't have aided and abetted.
    I'm working on detachment.
  5. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Wow Terry, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Difficult Child just don't get that once they have destroyed our trust in them we question every thing they do.
    To bad he couldn't just leave the "no, I'm taking you to the store" and left you alone.
    I'm glad you have an appointment. with your therapist.
    Hope your leg feels better soon.
  6. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Terry, you need to take a break. Find a place to go and put your husband on notice. You are making yourself sick playing detective.
  7. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    Terry, my gut tells me that your son's heartfelt speech the other night was pure theater. He's playing his old girlfriend, his new girlfriend and he's playing you, too. For a kid with multiple issues, he knows how to game all of you and he knows how to push your buttons. Even if he did buy a phone, that doesn't mean he's not taking your pills and selling them. It's not mutually exclusive. He's a master at gaslighting - you're always second guessing yourself, saying you're forgetful, exhausted, etc. - You're just like Ingrid Bergman!!!
    His disrespectful language and his explosive behavior are nothing short of abuse. Your leg is messed up, you have your cousin who needs you, other medical issues, etc. and no occasional massage will mitigate the stress and toll this is taking on your mind and body. This is killing you, Terry. I'm really worried for your physical and mental health.
  8. ThreeShadows

    ThreeShadows Quid me anxia?

    I'm an other one who is very worried about you, Terry. Please stop caving in to him and take care of yourself.
  9. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member


    You can't continue on like this.

    difficult child isn't going to change what he is doing. Why should he? I mean, he's kinda runnin the show there.

    You have to get off his roller-coaster.

    What medications is H talking about (that difficult child is on)? His prescriptions? Or illegal drugs? Does she know about the pregnant xgf?

    Pregnant xgf has an IPhone? Spending money? Enough to give difficult child $30? Does she work? I mean, her mom is getting her home foreclosed on, so I'm assuming they aren't in a good financial position to be wasting $$ on that kind of thing. Not my business, of course, but seems strange.

    I am assuming that difficult child is graduating in May?

    Maybe he should be given notice that he will need to find somewhere else to live after graduation unless he complies with your know, get a job, start buying diapers with the $, be respectful to you and your home, etc.

    Anyway, the most important thing is for you to get away from the craziness. You are going to have a nervous breakdown if you don't.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Where did he get the money to buy the phone? Why is he allowed to bring a phone into the house when you just took one from him? Doesn't make any sense...eventually there is probably going to be a blowout of all blowouts. He is controlling the entire house and is starting to get violent. Throwing things is violence (I learned this when I volunteered at Domestic Abuse shelter Yes, I think I've volunteered every possible place!!!).

    Take good care of yourself and don't let your son be your boss and make his rules and without having a job I'd be really worried about where even $25 is coming from. Stealing small amounts of money is way easier than large amounts. CJ is right. He could be and probably is selling your drugs. And D. is probably covering for him. Why do you think she is being honest? Your son is a master liar and gaslighter and is taking you for one wild ride that is apt to end badly. I'm afraid he may eventually come close to or actually hit you. I can't believe you apologized to him. And did he apologize for his horrible, thuggish behavior? He is not acting this way because of any culture. He is choosing to do it. I am assuming that, with your husband's good job, you live in a neighborhood that offers plenty of youth who are not in gangs or pretending to be in gangs. Your son just prefers to be associated with criminals. And he is getting away with EVERYTHING he does. He is walking all over you in your ow house. And he is treating both girls like scum. H. still doesn't know she could have an STD. D. is still pregnant and he is not going to be a part of his child's life, take my word on that. You need Al-Anon badly or some tough love group because trying to run around being a policewoman to make sure he isn't lying isn't working and can't work for any of us.

    And, of course, they are all lying while on drugs and suddenly having money when they don't work and showing up with new toys that "my friend" gave me. Suuuuuuuure. Sorry, he's lying, lying, lying and you are letting him and you deserve respect, not this abuse. I agree that it's time he be given a timeline for moving out. He is destroying you...don't let him. You have other loved ones and you also need to love yourself.

    Hugs to you and yours!!!
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    He doesn't graduate until next yr.
    That's why I'm holding on.
    I just want him to graduate.

    He is resourceful, in regard to getting a new phone, that's for sure. :(
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    He can always get a GED if he straightens out. Right now, it won't help him much if he won't work, won't listen, and harms your health and well being. also sounds like the money he got for the phone was not on the up and up. I would not trust D. Or anyone he is connected to. Where would D. get the money?I don't believe her story that she was in the store with your son. I think they got together and decided what to say...both gaslighting.

    I don't know. I hope you finally get so fed up, you stop trying to think he is telling you the truth. Drug users do not tell the truth and the only ways they tend to have money is by selling drugs or selling their belongings to other drug users. He needs to start feeling the pain and not get away with so many lame excuses. My daughter has told me many times, "Never trust a drug user. They lie." She should know. I believe her. She is very honest about drug life now that she is out of it. We never dreamed half of what she did.

    Again JMO. I plain don't believe anything he has said or D.
  13. DoneDad

    DoneDad Active Member

    You not trusting him is a natural consequence of his actions. Him lashing out, verbally abusing you, gaslighting - don't put up with it. You don't deserve it. Do whatever you have to do to make the abuse stop.
  14. ThreeShadows

    ThreeShadows Quid me anxia?

    Terry, you want him to graduate but he needs to want it too. I've been where you are now. I thought I could control my PITA son. I chased him all over town, got to know the cops in our community. Frankly, I made a fool of myself. I thought that I was showing my three kids that I was a mother bear, ready to fight for them, no matter what. I neglected our daughter as I frantically went on the hunt and played detective. PITA son had a ball with sex and drugs, did what ever he desired. His twin graduated HS without him. He eventually got his GED. Please let your son go. He's an adult now and he sounds out of control.
  15. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Terry, I've been reading along but really was kind of speechless and just didn't know what to say. What a horrible thing you've been through.
    I have to admit, I agree in large part with somewhereoutthere. Your son is getting away with a LOT. I DO understand apologizing about not believing him about the phone since apparently D was with him after all. We accused ours of selling or giving away his narcotic he was given after his surgery on his jaw. I believe my apology was, "If you didn't do it, I'm sorry." Later, when we found the drugs intact I did apologize sincerely...but ONLY for that specific thing. But that just really doesn't explain why he's bought a phone at all. Where did D get the money to give him? Where did he think he was going to get the money to activate it? His response to you saying you were going to get him a talk and text phone was insane! Did you SAY you were going to get rid of the other without getting all the info and photo's off? No!

    I'm concerned about those two girls too. One pregnant and one possible exposed to an STD and he's not telling either of them the truth apparently. Do they even know about each other? Who ever told him this was an acceptable way to treat women?

    I wish I had words of advice. The most I can do is tell you I care. :notalone:
  16. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    Terry, the road to detachment is one step at a time.

    here are a few of the first steps:

    1. Keep it simple. Get very clear with what you want and what you will tolerate. Write it down. Keep it short.
    2. Stay on "your side" of the street. Keep your side of the street clean. That is what you were doing when you apologized for that one mistake. Trying hard to keep a clean conscience about your own behavior is a full time job.
    3. Mind your own business. No detective work anymore. Limit your questions and interrogations. Details aren't necessary at this point in terms of what he is using and how he is getting his money. You already know the answers to this. I used to spend hours searching my son's room, car, backpack. For what? Evidence? I had all the evidence I already needed in his bloodshot eyes. This type of activity is completely unnecessary and more evidence of our need to control. We need to use that same frenetic energy on ourselves and our own mental, physical, emotional and spiritual health.
    4. Set boundaries with natural consequences for those boundaries. I understand he is still in your home and that makes it quadruple hard. You might limit these girlfriends being in your home at all. Just a thought.

    It is very unlikely that he is going to change right now. That means, you are the one who has to change.

    What are you doing to work for change in yourself? This forum is one thing. Read and write on it daily. Are you going to Al-Anon?

    Terry, you are worth the work. Start putting yourself first. You are 51% and he is 49%. He will not change until he is ready to change. There is not one thing you can do to hurry that up.

    Warm hugs, Terry. We care most about YOU.
  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you.
    I texted D's mom to tell her that D supposedly gave money to difficult child and to not do that any more. I asked her to gently tell D not to do that. (I had to use the word "gently" because she's verbally abusive.)
    I'll find out if D actually did give him the money when T responds.

    Meanwhile, difficult child started in on me about his phone yesterday. His voice was loud. I covered my ears and said, "Did you just come home to yell at me?"
    He said "No, I didn't." And walked away.
    I was bound and determined not to get sucked into a conversation about the phone.

    He's got to do chores at home and find a new job, to pay us back. It is so hard. Especially since he won't go to therapy.

    I have not been to AlAnon for 3 yrs. I went when I moved Cousin P here, because she was addicted to oxycodone, and difficult child was on drugs. But I ran out of time. Then I joined NAMI and fell in love with-the group. Problem is, they are a half hr/45 min away and it's always on a Mon night, when I'm most tired.
    I'll work something out ...
  18. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Got a message from T, D's mom.
    D did give the money to difficult child.
  19. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    ALL of it? no way to know, of course.

    Do you keep your medications in the original containers? or do you use a weekly pill system? The latter makes it easer to tell at a glance if you've taken them or not - and you check your counts on each fill, so the numbers should be going down evenly. You could even write the declining counts on the pill bottle.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Although you are trying hard to believe him and her, she could have told her mom she did when she didn't.

    You want to believe him so badly that he's going to be a hardcore criminal having never suffered any consequencefor his behavior. You took his phone away. Why is he allowed to buy another phone?

    This kid would be gone if he was mine. My daughter was not in this much trouble when I made her leave and I felt terrible, but she grew up and quit as she knew she had nobody to rescue her anymore.