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The coming Thanksgiving crisis--home from college
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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 391561" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p>Dear Dejected Dad, </p><p> </p><p>Hi and Welcome to the Board. </p><p> </p><p>I wanted to start by saying that I think you are a wonderful Father. Your son is very lucky to have both parents that are still so supportive of him despite all the things you have described. These repeated behaviors are destructive, debilitating and have your son spirialing downward. It sounds between the lines like your son may have some self-esteem issues from way back. Maybe there are things in HIS mind (not yours) that have caused this for him. Sounds like he felt a little left out in school and maybe was a bit socially awkward or unaccepted. Not a complete reject, but just his group of friends was different than you would have hoped for and didn't understand why he was drawn to those types of kids. Trying to figure it out now is nearly a mute point BUT - it has a great lot to do with him now and how he feels about himself. </p><p> </p><p>The fact that he attempted to give college a try I think speaks volumes about where he wants to be in life because at his age? If he hadn't wanted to go; believe me he wouldn't be there. Whether you demanded it of him or not. Money or not. So I think you have that in your favor. That and the fact also that he has been thinking ahead and mentioned community college. It's not Ivy league, but it's not the end of the world. Again - not where you would like to see him right now, but still getting an education in something. I'd allow him to explore this because (shrug) whatever his major was in? Maybe what he really needs to do here is speak with a guidance or career counselor and think about changing his major. He's gotten a taste of school now, and perhaps there is something else he's considering, but feels he'd be letting you down if he chooses community? </p><p> </p><p>The lure of coming home per se and attending to be near drug buddies? Well - that is going to be something that you and your wife and son will have to work out now. I would think he could apply for some on campus housing of some kind and maybe THIS is the opportunity he needs to force his hand and make him work 20 hours a week while going to school. Not anyone's dream to be in school, get foodstamps and have a 20 hour a week job, but a great many scholars DO this. It would also teach him to budget his money, food, and be responsible for HIMSELF. Instead of Dad and Mom paying for X, X and X. Not saying you couldn't put his college money back for him or even alot him a weekly allowance WITH stipulations, but I think to just hand a college kid $$ without any show for it is a shame on you - you teach him nothing by giving him anything. You teach him a great many things by allowing him to earn it, and when he earns it himself? He feels self-worth, sense of accomplishment and takes care of things. Besides - you can't buy pot, AND eat if you only have $25 a week allowance. At some point you have to make choices. Your friends won't let you couch surf forever - it gets old. And no girl really wants to "take care" of you - so that wears off no matter how good looking you are. </p><p> </p><p>The only other thing that I can say and will say is that if you are so readily willing to stand up and say "Dont tell me to NOT DO this, this, and, this with my son?" then YOU are doing him an injustice as well as yourself. I have not suggested here above that you cut him off, but I'm curious why you feel that making a (what I summise to be 19, 20 year old man) work for his food, his shelter and his dignity is ruining his life while he chooses to use what money he has to buy drugs? Not pointing fingers - just asking you to see the tough love side of this. I give YOU $50.00 for school. You take that money alotted for your education, and buy illegal drugs that I know will ruin your body, and possibly get you incarcerated. You come to my house and say "I'm hungry, I need notebooks, pencils, a car, gas, insurance, and oh by the way - I've cut class, can't work because I've got this monkey on my back and life is tough." So I get in my wallet and repeat the process over and over with you. Eventually you come to me and say "I need $100.00 - cost of pot...er notebooks has gone up." and I hand it to you and you take it and spend it on pot KNOWING that next week I will give you more money. Eventually somewhere along the line? I have GOT to stop supporting you and cut you off for your OWN GOOD. Otherwise you become dependent on me, my money, and you learn NOTHING of the value of work. It's not ruining your life it's teaching you a lesson. </p><p>Along the way of this lesson you can make it as hard or as easy as you wish. </p><p> </p><p>Now does this hurt ME? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT DAD. It hurts like nothing you can imagine. Does seeing your son strugging, and going hungry not tear your heart out? Yes. Does it make you less of a Father? NO. It makes your son, more of a man because he quits begging YOU for money and the idea is that yes - he's not going to come to you for a while, he WILL go to his friends and tell them ALL how horrible you are, and he will couch surf, and borrow from them - but eventually life will teach him a lesson - the same one you did. His friends aren't going to hand him 50k for college. His friends aren't going to buy his supper every night, they aren't going to buy his clothes, pay his bills, turn his lights on, give him a car - or even put up with his baloney as long as you did. So what happens eventually (even though you think it never will and he'll hate you forever but will NOT) is that they come back - and they come back appreciating you. And they appreciate the lesson. </p><p> </p><p>IF THEY DO NOT??????? If they do not come back appreciating the lesson then YOU have that much time ahead in your detachment skills that honestly would have been wasted in trying to save someone that was NOT interested in saving himself but was seriously ONLY interested in playing you, the system and everyone else around them in seeing how long he could make svckers out of everyone. In that case; sad to say - the sooner he's on his own the better. If it's the former? Then you are how ever long AHEAD of getting him on the right track. </p><p> </p><p>Since he feels he needs no therapy - That is his choice. I would have suggested E.M.D.R. therapy. It's a faster-deeper type of therapy that for some reason just seems like something to me that would be of interest. The only other thing I would recommend in this and only because we (I) went for 15 years is a family thearapist. Had we not seen him? I would not have a son at all. I would have molly-coddled him, bent to his every whim, and been on my own thinking WHAT CAN I DO TO SAVE HIM. When the question I needed to ask was "How far back do I need to step to let him fall on his own before he sees what a mess he's making of his life yet still be supportive enough to let him know I care, but won't pick up the pieces for him?" </p><p> </p><p>I hope this reply has not come off to you as offensive (shrug) It has never in my 11 years here EVER been an intention of mine to give anything but my own observations based on my own lifes experiences - which were like walking through hells fires most days. However I can tell you that the more you (YOU) try to figure out how it is that (YOU) can save your son instead of figuring out how it is that you can detach and allow him all the scraped knees he can't possibly handle now? The harder it will be for EVERYONE as you all age year by year. I remember the nurse in the state psychiatric. hospital when my son was 7 telling me - she used to work in the prison for adult men, but she switched because she felt she could do more good with the younger kids - you know 'get em while they were still young enough to make a difference. Then she told me I could either pay now (meaning leave him there) or pay later (meaning leave him behind in prison). When I walked out of that place mister? I felt like someone ripped my heart out of my chest and used it for a football. I can't even begin to tell you how painful those 200 steps to the car were that day. I didn't think I'd make it. That was just the beginning....</p><p> </p><p>So take this for what it's worth. I don't belive allowing him to come home is a good idea either, but I certainly could not abide with paying for an apartment/flophouse/drug buddy commune while he does a few community college classes, and doesn't work. Maybe finding a family therapist and talking it out with him/her would be of great help or a pastor? Whomever - I think 3rd party non-partisan person would be immeasurably helpful for you all here. </p><p> </p><p>Best of luck - </p><p>Please do come back and let us know how things are for you and your son. </p><p>ps. Rehab? Not going to help unless he wants it more than anything in the world. What he seems to want more than anything right now is a free ride. Sorry to say , but we cut our 20 year old son off last year and JUST -----JUST mailed him a box of used clothes for a part time job he got. By the time the clothes got there? He didn't have the job anymore. Of course it's because the man can't drive so far to get him. (whatever) But thats how long it's taken me to be pulled into "help me" since cutting him off. And oh yes there have been the "Im hungry, I have no place to live, I'm homeless etc calls." It really kills me to hear it, but I keep asking myself WHO put him in this situation? I'm not getting those calls anymore. I just keep saying "Sorry to hear that, that's too bad, wow that's tough - well what are you going to do?" It's what I was told by the therapist to do. Amazingly 3 days later LIFE is wonderful - and I keep thinking - "and I would have sent him HOW MUCH?" UGH. </p><p> </p><p>Take care.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 391561, member: 4964"] Dear Dejected Dad, Hi and Welcome to the Board. I wanted to start by saying that I think you are a wonderful Father. Your son is very lucky to have both parents that are still so supportive of him despite all the things you have described. These repeated behaviors are destructive, debilitating and have your son spirialing downward. It sounds between the lines like your son may have some self-esteem issues from way back. Maybe there are things in HIS mind (not yours) that have caused this for him. Sounds like he felt a little left out in school and maybe was a bit socially awkward or unaccepted. Not a complete reject, but just his group of friends was different than you would have hoped for and didn't understand why he was drawn to those types of kids. Trying to figure it out now is nearly a mute point BUT - it has a great lot to do with him now and how he feels about himself. The fact that he attempted to give college a try I think speaks volumes about where he wants to be in life because at his age? If he hadn't wanted to go; believe me he wouldn't be there. Whether you demanded it of him or not. Money or not. So I think you have that in your favor. That and the fact also that he has been thinking ahead and mentioned community college. It's not Ivy league, but it's not the end of the world. Again - not where you would like to see him right now, but still getting an education in something. I'd allow him to explore this because (shrug) whatever his major was in? Maybe what he really needs to do here is speak with a guidance or career counselor and think about changing his major. He's gotten a taste of school now, and perhaps there is something else he's considering, but feels he'd be letting you down if he chooses community? The lure of coming home per se and attending to be near drug buddies? Well - that is going to be something that you and your wife and son will have to work out now. I would think he could apply for some on campus housing of some kind and maybe THIS is the opportunity he needs to force his hand and make him work 20 hours a week while going to school. Not anyone's dream to be in school, get foodstamps and have a 20 hour a week job, but a great many scholars DO this. It would also teach him to budget his money, food, and be responsible for HIMSELF. Instead of Dad and Mom paying for X, X and X. Not saying you couldn't put his college money back for him or even alot him a weekly allowance WITH stipulations, but I think to just hand a college kid $$ without any show for it is a shame on you - you teach him nothing by giving him anything. You teach him a great many things by allowing him to earn it, and when he earns it himself? He feels self-worth, sense of accomplishment and takes care of things. Besides - you can't buy pot, AND eat if you only have $25 a week allowance. At some point you have to make choices. Your friends won't let you couch surf forever - it gets old. And no girl really wants to "take care" of you - so that wears off no matter how good looking you are. The only other thing that I can say and will say is that if you are so readily willing to stand up and say "Dont tell me to NOT DO this, this, and, this with my son?" then YOU are doing him an injustice as well as yourself. I have not suggested here above that you cut him off, but I'm curious why you feel that making a (what I summise to be 19, 20 year old man) work for his food, his shelter and his dignity is ruining his life while he chooses to use what money he has to buy drugs? Not pointing fingers - just asking you to see the tough love side of this. I give YOU $50.00 for school. You take that money alotted for your education, and buy illegal drugs that I know will ruin your body, and possibly get you incarcerated. You come to my house and say "I'm hungry, I need notebooks, pencils, a car, gas, insurance, and oh by the way - I've cut class, can't work because I've got this monkey on my back and life is tough." So I get in my wallet and repeat the process over and over with you. Eventually you come to me and say "I need $100.00 - cost of pot...er notebooks has gone up." and I hand it to you and you take it and spend it on pot KNOWING that next week I will give you more money. Eventually somewhere along the line? I have GOT to stop supporting you and cut you off for your OWN GOOD. Otherwise you become dependent on me, my money, and you learn NOTHING of the value of work. It's not ruining your life it's teaching you a lesson. Along the way of this lesson you can make it as hard or as easy as you wish. Now does this hurt ME? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT DAD. It hurts like nothing you can imagine. Does seeing your son strugging, and going hungry not tear your heart out? Yes. Does it make you less of a Father? NO. It makes your son, more of a man because he quits begging YOU for money and the idea is that yes - he's not going to come to you for a while, he WILL go to his friends and tell them ALL how horrible you are, and he will couch surf, and borrow from them - but eventually life will teach him a lesson - the same one you did. His friends aren't going to hand him 50k for college. His friends aren't going to buy his supper every night, they aren't going to buy his clothes, pay his bills, turn his lights on, give him a car - or even put up with his baloney as long as you did. So what happens eventually (even though you think it never will and he'll hate you forever but will NOT) is that they come back - and they come back appreciating you. And they appreciate the lesson. IF THEY DO NOT??????? If they do not come back appreciating the lesson then YOU have that much time ahead in your detachment skills that honestly would have been wasted in trying to save someone that was NOT interested in saving himself but was seriously ONLY interested in playing you, the system and everyone else around them in seeing how long he could make svckers out of everyone. In that case; sad to say - the sooner he's on his own the better. If it's the former? Then you are how ever long AHEAD of getting him on the right track. Since he feels he needs no therapy - That is his choice. I would have suggested E.M.D.R. therapy. It's a faster-deeper type of therapy that for some reason just seems like something to me that would be of interest. The only other thing I would recommend in this and only because we (I) went for 15 years is a family thearapist. Had we not seen him? I would not have a son at all. I would have molly-coddled him, bent to his every whim, and been on my own thinking WHAT CAN I DO TO SAVE HIM. When the question I needed to ask was "How far back do I need to step to let him fall on his own before he sees what a mess he's making of his life yet still be supportive enough to let him know I care, but won't pick up the pieces for him?" I hope this reply has not come off to you as offensive (shrug) It has never in my 11 years here EVER been an intention of mine to give anything but my own observations based on my own lifes experiences - which were like walking through hells fires most days. However I can tell you that the more you (YOU) try to figure out how it is that (YOU) can save your son instead of figuring out how it is that you can detach and allow him all the scraped knees he can't possibly handle now? The harder it will be for EVERYONE as you all age year by year. I remember the nurse in the state psychiatric. hospital when my son was 7 telling me - she used to work in the prison for adult men, but she switched because she felt she could do more good with the younger kids - you know 'get em while they were still young enough to make a difference. Then she told me I could either pay now (meaning leave him there) or pay later (meaning leave him behind in prison). When I walked out of that place mister? I felt like someone ripped my heart out of my chest and used it for a football. I can't even begin to tell you how painful those 200 steps to the car were that day. I didn't think I'd make it. That was just the beginning.... So take this for what it's worth. I don't belive allowing him to come home is a good idea either, but I certainly could not abide with paying for an apartment/flophouse/drug buddy commune while he does a few community college classes, and doesn't work. Maybe finding a family therapist and talking it out with him/her would be of great help or a pastor? Whomever - I think 3rd party non-partisan person would be immeasurably helpful for you all here. Best of luck - Please do come back and let us know how things are for you and your son. ps. Rehab? Not going to help unless he wants it more than anything in the world. What he seems to want more than anything right now is a free ride. Sorry to say , but we cut our 20 year old son off last year and JUST -----JUST mailed him a box of used clothes for a part time job he got. By the time the clothes got there? He didn't have the job anymore. Of course it's because the man can't drive so far to get him. (whatever) But thats how long it's taken me to be pulled into "help me" since cutting him off. And oh yes there have been the "Im hungry, I have no place to live, I'm homeless etc calls." It really kills me to hear it, but I keep asking myself WHO put him in this situation? I'm not getting those calls anymore. I just keep saying "Sorry to hear that, that's too bad, wow that's tough - well what are you going to do?" It's what I was told by the therapist to do. Amazingly 3 days later LIFE is wonderful - and I keep thinking - "and I would have sent him HOW MUCH?" UGH. Take care. [/QUOTE]
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