The sick man who let his baby die in hot car

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I mean, we don't know if he is really guilty, but there is sure a lot of evidence, like how he was doing searches on "how long can a child survive in a hot car" and "child free living." His eyes look dead. He's dead in his soul. I don't know if anyone else is following this sad, sad story, but when I heard about it, it made me cry. That beautiful little boy that they apparently didn't want would have had thousands of parents who did want him. If they didn't want a child, there were legal ways to safely get him into somebody's loving arms, but they didn't do it.

    I know I"m convicting him before his trial, but I can't help but think that there is no other explanation.

    Just a vent. Makes me so sick.
     
  2. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    MWM, I have been following the story very closely as it is right in my backyard. I listened to the hearing yesterday and was sick at what I heard. The newspaper had a big follow-up story today.

    The police suspect that it was intentional and that his wife might have been in on it. She, too, searched for information on how long it would take a child to die in a car before it happened and her first words when she went to pick up the baby at daycare and heard he had never been dropped off were reported to be "my husband must have left him in the car."

    I have a feeling we will find out a lot more as the police continue to investigate.

    ~Kathy
     
  3. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I heard an interview they did with him the day after this happened. The whole thing just sounded "off" to me. He seemed very detached, like it had happened to someone else - no apparent emotion at all! And on the news this morning they said that he and his wife had taken out two $25,000 life insurance policies on the baby! Who takes out $50,000 in life insurance on a baby?!?!
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Wow, Kathy and Donna. I'm normally against the death penalty. We'll leave it at that.

    What is it about us that makes us so desensitized to these things that it barely makes the news? EVERYBODY should hear about this. We should ALL be more aware and maybe looking around a little bit more on hot days to make sure nobody is sitting in a baby seat in a hot car.

    Yeah, I heard Mom was in on it too. Killing a beautiful baby that many infertile couples would love to have raised all for some life insurance policies.

    Mind boggling.
     
  5. cubsgirl

    cubsgirl Well-Known Member

    This story makes me sick too. I think the mom will eventually be arrested too. Poor precious baby.
     
  6. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Oh wow! They were just saying on the news that the parents were "buried in debt" and that the father had been asking family members how you go about filing a claim on a life insurance policy!
     
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    There you go. Typical reason to off somebody...life insurance. Usually it's the spouse. It's awfully suspicious to take out a lot of life insurance on a child. Wonder if his own family will testify against him.
     
  8. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I don't know much of this story since I haven't been watching the news much lately. However, re: life insurance on a baby...I can address this a little.

    My daughter in law's family did this. It was unfamiliar to me. They took out inexpensive life insurance policies on both their children when they were babies. Now, that they are adults and married, they cashed them out and gave them the money.Our son and his wife used that money to refinance the house at a much lower rate. I had never heard of such a thing. Anyway, this was their plan all along. I guess if their child had died , they would have used the money for funeral expenses and perhaps something else. Retirement? But, since that didn't happen, they cashed it in and gave it as a fairly large gift to their children and their spouses when they married. Very foreign to me, but apparently not to some. I DEFINITELY got the impression this was some family routine.????

    NOT saying this case being discussed here isn't peculiar and very suspicious, but I am saying folks apparently do buy life insurance on their babies as some kind of savings plan ?..?..?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  9. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Nomad, it sounds like you are talking about whole life insurance policies that grow in value over time and can be cashed out for a lump sum value.

    The amount of the insurance policies in this case are actually a $2000 policy and a $25,000 policy. . . not two $25,000 as has been reported in some news articles.

    I can understand the $2000 policy since I had similar small policies on my girls through my job. For a couple of dollars a month, the school system provided $5000 policies for each of my dependents.

    You are correct that we should find out all of the facts. We don't know if the $25,000 policy was a term life or whole life. However, based on the fact that it was reported in today's paper that the father was already instructing his family how to get the life insurance just hours after the boy died while the father was still being questioned by the police is certainly troubling.

    The paper said today that the investigation had widened and now included the mother. Her first words to the day care center workers ("Ross must have left him in the car") and then to her husband ("have you said too much?") have made the police believe she may have been involved. She, too, had searched the computer on how long it takes to die in a car just days before the little boy's death.
     
  10. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    That's what I was thinking too about the insurance policies. Good Morning America yesterday first said it was two $25,000 policies, but then a later newscast said it was two policies totaling $27,000. But for this kind of policy, even $27,000 is a very large amount of insurance to have on a child. I had those small policies on my kids too but nowhere near $27,000. For a child, most people just have a policy big enough to cover funeral and burial expenses should the unthinkable happen and they lose their child. They're not thinking about making a profit.
     
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My parents had taken a life insurance policy out on all of us. It was one of the few smart, nice things they did for us and when we married, we had about $5000 from it. But, as horrible as my parents were, they did not mean to murder us nor did they put a number on our heads that was significant to them.

    These people took out a big chunk of money on a little toddler who was unlikely to get sick and die. That is always very suspicious. They planned to use him as a cash cow and sacrifice the poor baby's very life for their needs. It makes me want to throw up.
     
  12. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    Oh, what I'm saying is that this little part of it, taking put a policy, might not be evidence in a murder since other people seem to do it regularly and do it for good reasons. They cash it out when the person marries (not full value) and they give it as a gift.

    However, if the father was super quick to instruct the family on how to cash it out...that's strange and all the other stuff is strange, etc.

    Just getting the policy when the child was a baby or even a toddler normally would seem strange to me, but seeing that this other family does this regularly, almost as a tradition, in my mind takes it off the table as suspicious (unless they took out the policy only a month before or earlier)

    The internet searches, to me, is the big red flag. Weird and very suspicious.
     
  13. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    That they had the insurance policies, to me, is suspicious but it doesn't prove anything. But the way the father reacted afterwards says it all! If my child had just died needlessly because of my own carelessness and stupidity, I guarantee you that my first thought would NOT be, "How do I file a claim on his insurance policy?"
     
  14. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    A good defense attorney would explain that away as the father being concerned about getting the money to cover the cost of the funeral.

    To me, the biggest red flags are that the father lied to the police that he had gone out to his car during the day but they caught the lie after watching a video from a surveillance camera. He went out to his car at noon. The police say that the stench at that point would already have been overwhelming not to mention that he drove for two miles later in the day with the same stench. The police said that they couldn't even get near the car with the doors open without gagging.

    Sorry for being so graphic but it takes away all plausible deniability on the father's part when you take that into consideration.
     
  15. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Usually I am the voice of reason and stick to the whole "innocent until proven guilty".

    I'm sorry, I have an issue with ALL of these cases. In my 50 yrs I've watched numerous amounts of children ranging in age from newborn to pre teen, I've raised my own children, I've cared for nieces, nephews, grandchildren. In all those years not once have I ever forgotten a child was 1. in my care and 2. in my frigging car!

    How does one simply forget a child??? Are you that preoccupied with your drama, phone, friends, shopping, job whatever that your child is an afterthought in your life? I have a real issue seeing any of these cases as accidents. To me they're outright neglect / endangerment on the part of the caregiver.

    Now? Now I see posts on fb that they want you to put your left shoe into the car with baby so you don't forget they're there. WTF?? Hmm. Ok. So now we've just lowered baby's status even further.

    It is about responsibility people.

    My mother used to leave her weeks old infant where ever she happened to go. (me) Seems although she had 4 other small children the baby just oops! constantly slipped her mind. I was left "accidentally" at friends & family and stores......... And she still happens to laugh when she tells the stories. I didn't think it funny when I heard those stories as a child, I find them disturbing when I recall them as an adult. At age 18 months Mom nearly gave my grandma and great aunt strokes because she just up and left me in a store "assuming" one of them had me. Seems no one had me. I was found a couple hours later........in the back of the store munching cookies with a motherly cashier. by the way it wasn't mom who found me, it was grandma.

    There was the time too when mom left a 2 yr old unattended riding a tricycle on a busy street while she ran in to answer the phone. Evidently that must have been some phone call because that 2 yr old had time to ride into the street in heavy traffic..........nearly get hit from BOTH directions......jammed up traffic all up and down the street while one driver tried to find the parents........and golly gee mom was "shocked" to have this strange man bang on her front door and ask her "Lady is this YOUR kid?" and then proceed to bawl her out something fierce. (me again)

    Mom left us in the car unattended all of the time regardless of weather...

    Honestly, though.........how does one "forget" you put your child into the car? These days it's not just setting them onto the seat. You have to strap them into these infant seats that are a major pain in the backside. I think you're going to remember having done that. No to mention it's a bit difficult to get out of the car without spotting the child sitting in the back for most vehicles.

    It seems that in recent years children being forgotten in vehicles is becoming more common instead of less. Parents need to get their priorities straight, or they need to be charged with gross neglect, child endangerment, and manslaughter. I "forgot" is a pretty lame excuse when you get right down to it. It wouldn't wash in any other situation, so why do we tolerate it in this one?

    Of course they still have to be judged on individual circumstances but the knowledge of how deadly a hot car is has been out there for decades......there is no one who can claim ignorance.

    For many of these parents it is simple neglect out of laziness. Maybe they don't think it will be their child who bakes to death......and when it happens they're horrified. Sorry, can't drum up a whole lot of empathy. If you can't think that far ahead you don't need children.

    This dude?? Deserves to be drug about naked over hot coals........until he slowly.......very f-ing slowly cooks to death. I want a front row seat. This guy planned it out, checked the baby to see if he was dead yet........ He'd better be thrilled I can get no where near him.

    Maybe it's high time we start making the punishments fit the crimes too. Bet our prisons would start emptying out quickly.

    Harsh? Maybe so. But sometimes it's just necessary.
     
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  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Jamie gives tickets to people who leave their dogs/cats in their cars if the outside weather is 75 degrees or more. Now if people in VA can learn to NOT leave a pet in their cars then I am pretty sure people can figure out not to leave a child.

    What I want to know is how one doesnt hear the child. I have yet to be able to open my car door without whichever kid it is in the car yelling that they want to go too. Even if I am doing nothing more than going around the car to put gas in it and I am paying at the pump...which by the way I wont let them out of the car when I do that. I feel that is too dangerous with all the cars in the parking lot. Of course, my hands are always on the vehicle and I can see them at all times.

    I dont think you forget your child. However I do think sometimes people go overboard on if someone should be able to leave a child in a car at all. I heard one woman on Dr Phil who said that if she had to get out of her car to check her mailbox she would unstrap her baby from the car seat and take him with her, check the mail, then strap him back in even though she wouldnt be 5 feet from her car. I think that is plum stupid.
     
  17. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    I never ever forgot where my children were. However, I could see under extreme circumstances...like sleep deprivation, heavy duty stress, being sick and on strong medication....it would have to be something very unusual...and then in my mind, a very rare, horrible tragic thing...but I could see it possibly happening under these type of very unusual circumstances on a rare occasion.

    Kathy...I am freaked out, grossed out, greatly disturbed by the evidence you are reporting. OMG!!!!! Clearly see why this is so very disturbing and on the minds of folks here and so many. Very very very suspicious and upsetting! OMG!
     
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh one thing on the insurance thing. I have no idea if this is the type of insurance they have...I doubt it and it doesnt sound like it...but I imagine most folks have heard of the Gerber Life Insurance. They also have a plan where you can start paying towards your child's college education from day one. It is also basically life insurance.

    With Gerber, your child has a 10K whole life policy up until age 18 or 21, I cant remember which. At that time they can increase it with no health check ups or anything like that to a maximum of what I dont know. I do know its a good deal. I believe they have until age 28 to update their Gerber insurance if they ever had it. I had considered getting it on my grands because you can cash it in at age 18 or 21 and use it for school.
     
  19. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    I don't have cable but do know the story I was in georgia when it happened.

    27k is not a lot of money and (I know this might sound weird) but holy poo why would you do that for maybe a years salary? That isn't life changing money, where areas losing a child is very life changing. That's the only thing that makes me hope that it was some horrible
    Freak accident.


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  20. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I also have followed this story. The life insurance didn't faze me. I took out a $25,000 policy on my son when he was an infant. I was single, had no savings. One of those "door to door" type insurance guys came by and I thought, "God forbid, something happens to my son I couldn't afford to bury him!" So I bought two policies, one for him and one for me. I'm still paying on them, $31 a month. They had told me that eventually his would pay for itself...a lie...but the insurance is good.

    I can even see how a tragedy like this can happen. IF you aren't the parent who usually takes the child to daycare. IF your spouse puts the child in the carseat. IF you are rushed and thinking of everything you have to do.

    But NOT when you are the person who takes the child to the daycare where you work, stop and have breakfast with the child on the way there, go out to your car at lunch, and have searched for statistics for how long a child survives in a hot car.

    I hope this man - and probably his wife - burns in Hell. Prejudging or not.
     
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