The son who disowned his family (us) comes back to haunt my daughter.

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is another I mean, just writing is therapeutic so if nobody reads it, that's ok :)

    All of you know I adopted a child at age six from Hong Kong who is brilliant, but as cold as a robot and who dumped all of us for reasons we still aren't sure of. If not, I'm sure it's in the archives somewhere. Remember, I did meet him after five years in his church with a mediator and he was such an a---hole I decided that this isn't the child I raised and that I didn't want to see him again...he was deliberately not just mean, but malicious, but in a calm, cool way that scared me. And his sniveling wife obviously believed all the lies he told her about us. So I got closure. I moved on and now rather than saying I have five kids, I automatically say I have four. Because in his heart, he is not my son and that's what counts. He is NOT hurt by this, trust me.

    The one member of the family he still allows the privilege of being in his life is my ex husband. I'm not sure why...he cut him off for three years...but now they see each other again. I do not know how much or anything else because I never ask.

    On Thanksgiving my daughter from Illinois (PastryChef) was in tears and wouldn't tell me why at first, but finally admitted that her father (my lovely ex) had been badgering her for years to have breakfast with her "brother" who used to be close to her then tossed her to the wind when his wife decided she didn't like her. It broke J's heart and she had perhaps as hard a time with what S did as I did. But she got over it. In fact, her last memories of him were not pretty. She was staying at his house, at his invitation, when she met her current SO of ten years, G. He kicked my daughter out of his house one night in a very mean way, while G. was visiting. He called G. "my sister's screw. You two will NEVER last because screwing around is NOT love!" and calling his sister a ****. While it's true that J. and G. were having a sexual relationship, my daughter is not a **** and never was. They were and still are in a monogamous relationship. She left to live with G. and that's been the story ever since.

    My daughter J. really loves both of her parents and tries to please us, even though my ex is difficult and hard to please. After berating her for years for not seeing her brother, who didn't want to see her and never called her once after she TRIED by calling him, she agreed to meet him in a restaurant on Thanksgiving morning to shut up ex. I had to kind of laugh sadly to myself because in S's demands of how I could see him, he said I could ONLY meet him at a restaurant or at his church, nowhere else. I figured he was applying the same rules to J. J. wisely took G. with her.

    When we finally got down to why J. was so upset, she told me that she hadn't wanted to go and that S. had been his normal jerky self. He didn't talk much, he bragged about all his money (to put her down) and how his son was going to an elite school (note: the son is only three years old). But, in all, nothing happened. But ex had told her "I want you to talk to him before I die. What if I'm in the hospital and the two of you aren't speaking?" The good ole "when I die" guilt trip!! And he added that his deceased mother would want her to do it. This actually is probably not true. His deceased mother was a Saint and would have been appalled at how S. has treated most of the family. But, of course, she is dead and can't speak to any of us. J. was very close to her sweet grandma.

    Although we had a great Thanksgiving, this put a slight damper on it. J. was angry and upset with Dad, but is way too kind to, say, tell him off. G. said he refuses to visit S. again and J. agreed...she did her duty and it's over.

    This reminded me how lucky I am to be divorced from ex. He really doesn't "get" things. It doesn't occur to him that there may be really good reasons why nobody but him is talking to S. Indeed, I don't think anyone but ex considers him part of the family anymore. He REALLY REALLY hurt all of us. Again, not sure why ex was allowed a holy second chance after three years (HE had to be the one to call, by the way), but we think it's because he's a Christian and the rest of us aren't. S. is critical of anybody who isn't a Christian, even if we believe strongly in God. It has to be his way or the highway.

    I hope he leaves my daughter alone from now on. I got the feeling a second meeting won't take place. G. said, "Let him apologize to us first." That is something that will never happen. G. loathes S. And J. just wants to keep him a part of her past.

    Sadlyl, ex constantly tells both sportsfan and pastrychef what a success and golden child S. is becaus he is so financially successful. Ex seems to lack that special something called "emotion" just like S. Maybe that's why they get along (sigh). Both of my other kids are hurt by how much ex exalts S. as perfect.
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I remember you posting about your former son before. So sad.
    Sounds like he's got a screw loose, and it is now his MO to judge and hate. If you ever had a moment's doubt about why you're divorced, fear no more!
    I'm so sorry that your daughter had to go through that. At least she knows it's done now. End of story, as long as she decides to control her own fate.
    Sometimes we have to go through something one more time to figure it out.
  3. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    It's always amazing how much collateral damage is left in the wake of stupidity. I feel so sad for your daughter who is torn between pleasing her dad and being hurt by her former brother. It's never easy, is it? I feel for you, and send Hugs to you and J. At least J. has G. and you to lean on - that's very good.
  4. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Sorry you and your daughter are hurting. I'm also sorry for S and that he doesn't really seem to get a concept of family. But there is nothing you can do for that.

    I'm sorry I'm going bit off topic here, but I got curious what you mean by this:
    I don't want to pry, but are you of some other religion than Christian (Jewish maybe?) or what did you meant by this? And how is that a problem for S?
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My ex can and does use stuff like "when I die" and "your grandmother" to get PastryChef to do what he wants her to do, and that makes it very hard for her to forever say no. He doesn't stop to think of all the memories that will drag up for J. Maybe he really thought S. and J. would reconnect. He is socially clueless and I often think he has Aspergers. the fact is, S. didn't even bring his joined-at-the-hip wife with him and did not call my daughter to invite her to join him. Ex made all the arrangements and probably badgered S. too. Although he obviously still has some control over S., it wasn't enough to force him to try to talk to J. or to be friendly toward her. To ex, a successful, good, wonderful adult child is one who has a million bucks, not one who would do anything for him, as J. would. It's sad for SportsFan and PastryChef because they will never live up to his standards. Ex doesn't care about the kind of person his children are. He just cares about their bottom line so that they will never ask HIM for any money. That's really all he cares about. By far, J. is the mo st caring and compassionate of his three kids (I include S. because he includes S., even though I don't).

    Terry, thanks for your caring response.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Suzir, we are highly spiritual, espescially myself and Daughter. Both of us are big believers in the concept of life after death, karma, guardian angels, etc. Obviously, S., who is a fundamentalist Christian (which means he doesn't even consider Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, etc. Christians) probably thinks we are heathens. Andl, no, I am not exaggerating. To him, all denominations are NOT Christianity. He has brought my ex to some very extreme (and in my opinion scary) churches, places the rest of us would never go. He has beliefs such as men and women are not equal and that marriage is forever no matter what happens in it and you can fill in the blanks for the rest of it. Only his church understands The Word.

    While Ex is really not at all extreme, I thinlk S. believes he can make him "see the light" where as he thinks the rest of us are clueless lost souls.

    Thanks for asking and caring.
  7. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    It's awful that ex put J into that spot.

    S somewhere along the way developed a warped sense of love, success, and right and wrong. I am certain this happened long before he joined your family. Somewhere along the line he became convinced money is the center of the universe. Money can buy him love, friends, and happiness.........who knows, might even buy his way into heaven. I know he appears to be a religious fanatic, but I've long since suspected this image of a pious man is just that, an image. If one is "in" with members of a church (members who happen to have connections in certain areas), it is a boost to their success. Money is S's God because he truly believes with enough success and money he will never be vulnerable again.

    I've seen this in the behavior and the way he talks in your posts over the years. Even with J.........what did he talk about? How much money he makes, how successful he is, and that his 3 yr old (poor kid) goes to a prestigious school. It appears that was put out there to put J down and make her feel bad. I think he uses it as his shield to build himself up. He has an extremely low self image. A subconscious attempt to seek approval, because he truly believes he needs no ones approval. Of course if that were true they'd have talked about the weather or something totally different than him bragging about his feats.

    J should not ever feel less than S in any way. She has found real love in G. She is doing what she wants with her life and is happy. Sadly, S will probably never know real happiness or love.

    As for your ex still being in S's life, could be as simple as well......c'mon, looks a bit suspicious if a "christian" can't manage some sort of relationship with at least one member of their family. Being a christian, ex was the obvious choice. It's all in the image.

    I doubt J will ever allow her dad to guilt her into having any contact with S again. Which is the best thing to come out of this.

  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hound Dog, wise, kind words.

    S. joined our family at age six and obviously has attachment problems. He was blessed with a sky high IQ and I believe he decided that achievement was the only way to feel he is worthwhile, because he was an orphan, which bothered him a lot. I also think he needed to belong so he married a Chinese woman with strong ties to the culture that he was pulled out of and turned to a very strict, almost cult-like church, to tell him the best way to "be good." Unfortunately, in many very extremist churches they teach you to judge others and throw out even family members who are not "believers." I do not know how he feels in his heart, but there is a lot of anger there. The last time I saw him, my last memory of him was when the mediator told us to pray. I am h alppy to pray in any religion because I believe all spirituality is positive. S. asked if HE could say the prayer. We agreed. His prayer was "Please help Mom see the light and help me forgive her, BUT IT IS SO HARD!"

    I'm not even sure what I did. His reality isn't reality, although I do believe it is reality in his mind. Still, I am puzzled at his inability to forgive reality as he saw it. Even his reality was not that bad and certainly was not the abuse he claims it was.

    J. and G. call him "the robot. He has no emotions." He is very frozen emotionally. This is true. I don't know what is behind his facade and no longer want to know. And neither does J. We both tried and failed and are done.
  9. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    Okay, that is rather strange concept all things considered. This modern fundamentalist Christianity is after all quite new and contemporary way of practising Christian faith. So not considering any other Christians throughout the history as Christians feels somewhat odd. I'm (at least half of the time) more or less agnostic Lutheran and I'm certainly a Christian. I in fact know few highly devoted, educated and intellectual pastors in our Church who claim to be agnostic (they consider they do not know if God exists, they just fervently hope so and put their faith on that) and I would be totally perplex if someone would claim not they are not Christians.

    But religious discussions of course are not for this board. I was just little baffled because I hadn't heard that kind of line of thought before.

    I'm sorry your ex is being difficult though I can see how he would like to see his children get along better. I'm happy your daughter is able to stand up for herself and that she has a good SO to support her. Loosing family in any way is difficult and maybe in some ways it was good to your daughter to see on her own eyes, what the situation is with S.
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    MWM I understand the Ex who "doesn't get it". been there done that. Really it makes perfect sense to me that Ex would be the one to have contact because he can visit or go to church with "his" son and have no emotional reaction to the environment. In the long run he can feel good about being the accepted parent...and his son is "loaded" besides. Goodness Gracious!
    Your easy child likely has gained some closure from the meeting.
    Lasted edited by : Dec 2, 2012
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Yikes, I was responding and my computer went NUTS. So far I can't even get it to delete. Bummer. DDD
  12. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    MWM - you guys tried. HE is the one who failed. :hugs:
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Yeah, you are all right, although ex doesn't want or need the money. He just likes the idea that S. will never need or ask for any and he holds that over the other two kid's heads.
  14. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    MWM, I'm sorry you are having to deal with the black and white small minded thinking of others who have some power to impact your daughter's life and then ultimately yours. Some folks do exalt money more then love, trust, compassion and family. However, I believe, in the long run, love wins out. Your ex's and former son's behaviors are glaringly obvious and ugly in their lack of humanity and depth of character. (((HUGS))))
  15. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I'm proud of J for going, and hope that she'll never fall for that again. She is old enough to make her own decisions about this, and she has now met her father's requirement to try. I can see this all as clear as day. Your ex will feel "Well it wasn't that bad. It can only get better. We should do it again." I hope that she won't. If he loves her, she'll accept that she doesn't want to. It's not evil or bad that she doesn't want to see her brother, it just is. She could probably avoid it by saying, "Of course we'd love to see brother and his family! I hope that he will come to our house for a Father's Day dinner." After all, she met him on his terms, now it's time for him to meet her on her terms if it means that much to him. That ought to shut him up. She can say it with great confidence that the answer will be "no", and she can assure dad that any time they all want to change their minds, they should let her know but she has spoken her last word on the subject.

    There's something wrong with that kid. He'll never be able to meet you or your family on your terms. That's his problem. Your ex is pitiful for only seeing the monetary wealth in his son and not the internal wealth of the rest of you. It reminds me of my dad. It's sick. He and his son deserve each other.
  16. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Wondered about that!
  17. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    This must be a cultural thing. This line of thought is pretty common in the USA. So many seem to think that they have to have the only path to salvation and all others are condemned. Thankfully, while those that believe that way are becoming more vocal and extremist (see West...boro), there are fewer and fewer of them as time goes on.
  18. cubsgirl

    cubsgirl Well-Known Member

    I'm so sorry that J's feelings were hurt. She did try the best she could and none of you can make S. behave in the way you want him to. He is highly manipulative and wants to call all of the shots. I hope J stays away from him now and gets no more pressure from her Dad.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Suzir...we must come from the same
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I blamed myself for S's choices for a long time and felt I must have done something Hideous to cause him to want out. Then I had the fantastic luck of finding a great psychologist who studies adopted children and only has adopted children as his patients. I had heard about him, but he is so popular I never though I'd get in. But when he heard my story, he saw me and we talked and talked for several sessions.

    In his opinion, adoption of S. at age six was too late to have him truly bond to us because a child's personality forms in his first three years. He believes S. has the whole nine yards of reactive attachment disorder, but, due to his stupendously high IQ, was able to model "normal" behavior for many years until something happened within him, and he imploded. S. has had a IQ tested at over 140. He always worked up to his ability level and achieved so well and his father burst with pride. The fact that he was a great liar, due to his IQ, made his brother, Sportsfan, the culprit often when he wasn't.

    I believe S. has to have severe reactive attachment to be able to totally turn away from those who loved him from age six to twenty-five. As soon as he met K., his wife, he immediately turned away from us and toward her and she, frankly, didn't care for us. In fact, she gave us a creepy feeling, although we never said that to S. and I feel we acted very nice to her. So I don't really know what was going on in his head, but I do believe he couldn't love more than one family at one time and was overly sensitive about what he considered horrible blights. Most would simply roll their eyes at the things he cared about. Other things never even happened.

    I believe six years old is old to adopt a child. I do not know if I could have emotionally removed myself from any of my other children as much as I have from S. Then again, none ever rejected all of us so badly or with such ridicule and finality. I am sorry things worked out this way, but don't think about him much anymore, except at times like this when my dear daughter is hurt all over again by her idiot father.

    I think father had his one chance to make it work and hopefully he saw that it never will. I want him to leave my daughter alone. She has been through a lot and come out the right way and is doing so well and I think he should be very proud of her. by the way, if anyone cares, my daughter will be on WGN tomorrow, 9CST, showing people how to make a cake that looks like it is tied with a bow. At least *I* am very proud of her!