Thinking Disorder

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by WSM, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. WSM

    WSM New Member

    I know this doesn't actually mean anything officially. But difficult child was diagnosed with it.

    Here's a couple examples of his thinking disorder.

    We are in court the second time for him bringing weapons to school. He's 11. (The weapon was a broken BB gun that looked real, and a five inch sharp pocket knife). He's nervous. Sitting in shackles in the jury box are a bunch of teen kids, big scary looking kids in jump suits.

    There's a 16 year old girl who's mother has been to court so many times she refuses to come any more, and refuses to take her home. The judge puts her mother on speaker phone and acts very firm and strict, "we aren't a babysitting service", "she's YOUR daughter", but the woman won't come. The girl has been rejected by all the Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s in the area and he doesn't have the authority to put her in jail, she hasn't broken the law. The social worker finally finds her a place in Jacksonville about 5 hours away. difficult child's eyes are huge, he's fidgetting--it never occurred to him that a parent would get rid of you and even the JAIL wouldn't want you.

    Then there's a 12 year old sitting next to the jury box, also in jump suit and shackles. He's sullen and bored and looks like he's crying quietly. A couple months earlier, he took a baseball bat and killed his 2 year old cousin because her crying bothered him while he watched cartoons.

    husband says, "There aren't many kids your age in jail. If you end up there, and you will if you don't stop taking weapons to school, he will be your roommate." difficult child looks terrified. The kids is about twice his size, and a murderer to boot. (the threat wasn't enough tho, within 9 months, difficult child took a paring knife and then a razor blade to school).

    Before the judge deals with the hardcore felons, he deals with the kids and parents sitting in the back of the court. One by one the kids with their parents shuffle up before the judge, 15, 16, 17--stealing cars, weapons, A&B, etc... They all have attitudes, sullen or smooth and cocky. The first thing the judge asks each kid, "How are your grades"?

    One after another they lie. "Pretty good your honor." And the judge sends them back to sit down, and has the clerk check. Then he calls them back up to the podium and yells at them.

    difficult child is nervous. He whispers, "What do I tell him. My last report card? Or my last take home folder?"

    difficult child back then was getting pretty much all As, but in the most recent folder got a D. We tell him to do his report card, since the judge's clerk is going to check his report card grades on her computer.

    So finally it's his turn and he goes up there. And judge asks him what his grades are and he says, "Very bad. I have bad grades. I get all Ds."

    My husband is upset and corrects the error, and the clerk checks, and the judge is like, "So what's the deal here." My husband explains this is part of the problem, difficult child lies about EVERYTHING. So the judge bawled at difficult child.

    Of course, my husband asks him afterwards, why did you lie? Naturally, difficult child 'didn't know' and 'thought the judge meant....<insert rambling explanation that has nothing to do with anything>', and 'was just trying to do the right thing', and 'because he didn't want to go to jail'.

  2. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Not to trivialize this, but I always figured all teenagers had "thinking disorders." Their brains aren't fully developed, their reasoning ability is not there. Your difficult child's reaction seems pretty "normal" to me, for a kid under such stress, especially one with so many other disorders in the mix?

    Maybe someone else will come along with a different take...
  3. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Could be he was so freakin' scared he decided to say what he thought the judge wanted to hear (since everyone else said they got good grades and got yelled at, it makes sense to him that he should say he gets bad grades so he won't get yelled at -- very simplistic logic, but clearly not in touch with how other people really think, and not realizing the judge wasn't asking a trick question and that the other kids got yelled at because they LIED.)

    by the way, what has he offered as explanations for bringing the weapons to school in the first place?
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a "I don't have any idea" diagnosis. to me. I tried to Google it up. A thought disorders seems to be common in some mental illness, but it isn't clearly defined. You can Google it up yourself and see what it says.
  5. WSM

    WSM New Member

    The first time he said 'I don't know, I just wanted to'.

    He got arrested and taken to Juvenile Reception for about 12 hours.

    The second time he said it was 'planted' on him. He was arrested and they took him to the city jail and gave him a scared straight demonstration.

    The third time he said, "Oh no, not again." and had no idea how it got there. They took him to Juvvy and he stayed there sitting on a bench by the desk until 4 am when husband was called to come get him.

    The fourth time, one month after the third time, he said it was planted on him and I did it, and the night before I had thrown him on the floor, jumped on his back 3 times (I weigh 170, he weighed 70), then pulled him up by the hair, hit him with a red slipper (altho I don't own any in any color).

    They called CPS, and took him to a forensic child abuse expert who instantly realized he had psychiatric issues and was lying. But a CPS supervisor took over and made our lives HELL for about 4 months, threatening to take away all the kids, making my husband choose between me and and children, threatening arrest, pretending a big investigation was going on. She wanted to arrest me, but the review board thought she was crazy (another CPS worker told us), and she was voted down. She still got one last interrogation in. Had we been real child abusers, that kid would have been punished horribly for what she put us through.

    That's why we took him out of public school. The principal taught difficult child that if difficult child comes up with a good story of abuse he will be excused a repeat felony offense. If he plays victim well enough, he's allowed to commit crimes.

    The school KNOWING he lied, covered the fourth one up. By LAW they should have expelled him (mandatory) and enrolled him in the alternative school for behavior problems. But he's such a nice little boy, and that place is such a hellhole, they thought the right thing to do was give him a break.

    A few weeks later we got a letter from the State Atty General saying if difficult child broke one more law, it was mandatory incarceration in Juvenile Detention. The school system refused to put him where he belonged in the alternative school, we couldn't risk him taking another weapon to school, so we put him in a day military school funded by the state.

    And the public school was furious. Here's a copy of the thread I started on how they got back at us:
  6. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Okay, now I remember that bit of drama!

    What does his psychiatrist/therapist say about the repeated weapons violations?

    Our difficult child 2 brought a Swiss Army knife to school last year and got suspended -- not expelled. They realized that he had no intent to harm when he brought it that morning, despite a threatening comment he made to another student later that day, with reference to the knife. Turns out he had been a victim of bullying for a long time (we didn't realize the extend of what was going on) and that's why he made the hostile remark to the kid, who happened to be one of his tormenters. The reason he brought the knife initially was because he wanted to use the magnifying glass on it to look at rocks at recess (he was on an obsessive mission to collect rocks at the time). Made sense to everyone, and since they knew the bullying history they gave him the benefit of the doubt -- but they also told me to lock up the knife!

    So. Impulse control problems and an inability to consider logical consequences, combined with lack of understanding how people interact and think in general. Does that sound about right? How many people have told you he's NOT on the spectrum? Like MWM said, sounds like it's still an "I have no idea" diagnosis and you need to keep pushing for answers, even if that means starting over with another mental health professional.
  7. Janna

    Janna New Member

    Oh, I thought this was a sarcastic thread. My mistake. LOL! Thinking Disorder, haha. I'm sorry, I'm with MWM. This sounds more like "I have no clue".

    I did a search, too, and Googled "DSM Criteria for Thinking Disorder" and everything BUT Thinking Disorder came up. Hahaha, all three of my kids have Non-Thinking type - must be type II.

    I'm sorry - I don't mean to make light - just sounds so silly.

    Kinda like me taking my 2 1/2 year old hyperactive child to his first psychiatrist and him telling me (this is 9 years ago now) that my son had "Oppositional Defiant Disorder". Not only did I spit my coffee back at him from the extreme laughter, I said to him "isn't every 3 year old oppositional and defiant?". He had no answer.

    Your difficult child, from your sig, has alot of stuff going on. Is he being guided by a psychiatrist? On medications? And, honestly, I see you have no to Autism Spectrum, but you know - Auties only see black and white, no grey, and my son answers "I don't know" all the time.

    We've also thought about Dissociation with him. Something else to look at.

    Just throwing out thoughts. Sorry you're struggling so much.
  8. WSM

    WSM New Member

    Sometimes I think the ones with thinking disorder are the professionals. :(
  9. WSM

    WSM New Member

    Here's another thinking disorder type story. A couple weeks ago my husband had his birthday and got a GPS. We programed it and put it on the kitchen counter to charge.

    difficult child loaded the dishwasher and later when my hubs was putting the alarms on his room at bedtime, difficult child said, "I think you better check your GPS, I have a feeling WSM (me) did something to it." (I was lying in bed with a cold at the time).

    The GPS was missing. Hubby was livid and distressed and pushed over the edge.

    (no, he didn't kill him, but did say sometimes I '******' hate you--but he used the real f-word. To give some perspective, in the last two months, difficult child has thrown a laptop and a DS into the pool, carved our $1000 dining room table, caused CPS to visit twice, threw his sister's bookbag into the pool twice, etc...all since mid December).

    I was shaking, my husband takes the brunt of difficult child's behavior and it's slowly killing him. So I put gloves on and went through the garbage. Found a whole bag of cereal and two pairs of shoes. Searched the rest of the kitchen, while hubby alternated pacing the backyard and going upstairs to yell at difficult child.

    Finally, found the GPS in the running dishwasher. Ruined.

    Hubby calmed down and made difficult child write an essay about why he did it (this is after several days of 'I don't know what happened to it. I didn't do it'. Hubby said difficult child had to write why--and he was not allowed any of the 'I don't know, I didn't do it' BS. And if he had to sit there the rest of his life with an empty notebook on his lap--that's what he'd do.

    So, difficult child wrote the essay. This is why he threw the GPS away:

    He was 'jellus' because even tho he can't drive, it's a high tech object.

    It costs a lot of money. He thought hubby would sell it for a lot of money and replace all the money hubby had spent on difficult child and "I just don't want that happening". He was afraid Hubby would get a new computer with the money or a new phone (difficult child has also thrown Hubby's cell phone in the pool twice) or "just have the money for the heck of it".

    It might mean more time away from the house. He likes Hubby to be home and fix things and cook and support us.

    Also, if he had it he'd drive more and eventually crash. It would also save money on gas if Hubby wasn't driving more. (He spent several paragraphs talking about where Hubby drives--to fill space).

    He put it in the dishwasher because it was the easiest way to destroy and get rid of it.

    He mentioned he thought something was wrong with the GPS, so 'there'd be no surprises in the morning'. He concluded:

    "I guess I thought I'd be saving you from a few different things, but what happened, happened and we cannot change the past".

    So difficult child did it to save his father from crashing. It was altruistic.
  10. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

  11. WSM

    WSM New Member

    His maternal uncle has catatonic schizophrenia.
    His other maternal uncle has paranoid schizophrenia.
    His biological mother has been diagnosis'd with BiPolar (BP)-II and schizophrenia, but spends most of her life homeless and psychotic.
    His paternal grandmother is just neurotic, dependent personality disorder maybe.
    His paternal grandfather is aspie, but successful in life.
    His paternal aunt is so severely autistic that at age 19 she still can't speak.

    He was born with muconium in his lungs.
    Born in January (oddly enough associated with schizophrenia)
    No delays in development, no mania, no hallucinations, no tantrums/rages
    Makes eye contact, steady unblinking at times
    Interacts with kids his age, but has no best friend, no consistent friend, they are always younger or older, and seem to be the 'misfits' (like him) but interested in and longs for friendship

    I think he is a blend of emerging antisocial personality disorder with incipent something in the schizophrenic family.

    In his mother's family the schizophrenia develops late, between 25 and 30.

    I think the schizophrenic influence blunts the antisocial PD.

    But who am I to have an opinion, I'm just the wicked stepmother who sets him up and 'just wants him out of the home'.
  12. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Okay then! I think you can see where he may be headed, unfortunately.

    Is he taking any antipsychotics at this point?
  13. WSM

    WSM New Member

    He's on no medications. The last pediatrician psychiatrist we saw said that the drugs were so powerful he tried to delay starting them since then they'd have to be continued for the rest of his life and would 'shape' his brain.

    The one before that said, "What's wrong with you that you want to medicate your son?"

    The one before that said, "He'll need them someday but let's hold off."

    He doesn't tantrum or rage, so they are more hesitant I think.

    Here's another story. Today i asked him to do a quick vaccuming.

    "Do I have to move the furniture." he asked.

    "No, just vacuum around. Just a quick pick up."

    "Ok." He immediately started to push the big ottoman.

    "What are you doing? I just said this second you didn't have to move furniture."

    "Oh. I thought you meant only chairs, not couches and stools."
  14. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Wow. Sounds like you really, really need to find a good psychiatrist and quick.

    Yeah, drugs are powerful, but mental illness is too, and destructively so!

    I think if you compiled your anecdotes of his home behavior and any other tidbits from recent memory you care to share, they would have no problem seeing the need for decisive and immediate treatment. Just because he's not raging doesn't mean he isn't ruining the relationships around him!

    Do you have any local mental health leads you could look into?
  15. Janna

    Janna New Member

    If my dad or step dad or any adult living in my home said "sometimes I f****** hate you", I'd throw their GPS in the dishwasher, too.

  16. WSM

    WSM New Member

    It's so true. But mostly destroying himself. This isn't going to end well.

    I am compiling a notebook (or two) of a summary of all his problems, behaviors, police reports, psychiatric evaluations, drawings, essays, etc...

    I wonder if anyone will ever read it. But we are going to have another evaluation done this summer by the school district psychiatric and do a pediatrician neuropath. I'm looking at options.

    Janna, it wasn't husband's finest parenting moment but came after so much acting out in the last couple months, so much damage to property and events, so much trouble and chaos. He did apologize later. difficult child has been trying to put husband in jail since age 8, he's written sentences in essays about how he wants his dad and sister dead, and drawn pictures about it. husband is actually a laid back guy, but his blood pressure has been so high that lately he has headaches that never go away. He's ashamed of saying it, but he DID say it, and you can be sure husband will pay for it for years, since difficult child will tell everyone what his dad said to him, and everyone will look at husband as a monster for a long time to come.
  17. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    I can see why your husband said what he did--I don't think it is the cause of your stepson's problems, came out of sheer frustration.

    When I was making my 18 yr old difficult child leave my house she shouted, "I hate you" and I shouted back, "I hate you too." Not grown up, not the right response, but I'm human and make mistakes and I was very angry. In my case, my dtr did not use it against me, we have a good relationship now (now that I haven't lived with her for over 2 yrs and she is many miles away).

    I really feel for all of you, your situation sounds so awful!

    Take care of yourself, really take this time to decompress.

  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    This does sound like a very odd situation. I think it might pay to interview several therapist's and try to find one you think can handle a situation like this.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Definitely some warped thinking going on.

    Please tell husband not to fret too much over what he said. I cant tell you the number of times me or the kids dad have shouted some not so nice things at one child or the other...specially the youngest. I still cannot believe how tight my boys hang on to us. We practically have to peel them
  20. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    There sure sounds like there is as Aspie overlay in that big mix but with so many issues I think I'd be seeking an independent neuropsychologist evaluation at the best children's hospital in the Nation. Honestly I can't imagine that
    a local school board would have someone capable of sorting out such a complex mix of behaviors and genetics. An example of why I suggest that route is what happened with difficult child's neuropsychologist. He, too, took a knife to school. It was actually a little blade from a little pocket knife and he, too, was being bullied (the schools are into the "don't ask, don't tell" mode on bullying since they want no responsibility!).

    Anyway they scheduled the exam in a larger Florida city with an office of good reputation. Bottom line.......they diagnosis. schizo-affective. When the report came I cried it was such a shock. THEN I find out that his biomom had taken him to some weird store with bells, gongs, etc. etc. and he
    relayed all the "magical" thinking to those experts. That combined with his Aspie personality and a few other strange things...oila..wrong diagnosis.

    A new evaluation done a year later was correct. Your difficult child needs the best of the best to ascertain what the problems are in total, what the future holds, what methods are needed to help him AND very importantly how you and your husband can make sure that your "perfect children" aren't suffering more than you might expect. I admire your dedication. DDD