Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by neednewtechnique, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. neednewtechnique

    neednewtechnique New Member

    Okay, so it just so happens that my difficult child and I had a talk last night about her friends and how easily things can spiral out of control at her age. I am sure most of you have read my post about our night last night, and another thing that my sources have warned me about is that these new friends of hers, a few of them have been into trouble with the police, and since this is SUCH a little town and she is the "new girl" and no one knows what to expect from her, she has become a "person of interest". To the best of my knowledge, she has not done anything ILLEGAL to give them cause to take any action against her, but I did warn her that she was being watched, kind of hoping I guess that it might make her more aware of what she is doing.

    I also tried to explain to her the cruelty of the adolescent world. I know these are things that you have to learn the hard way and she probably won't listen to me, but I tried to explain to her that although she thinks these NEW friends would stick up for her no matter what, if they DO get into trouble, they would turn on her in 2 seconds if they thought it would save their butts, no matter how good of friends she thinks they are.

    That being said, it just So happens that Lifetime TV is playing that movie, Thirteen, tonight and I was thinking of letting her watch it. I am debating on this, she says she wants to watch it, but I have a few reservations. I DO think that it would be a good lesson for her to see how things END when parents get involved and things get rough and how friends, even BEST friends, turn on each other. But since she is NOT anywhere NEAR as out of control as those girls in the movie, I DON'T want to give her any ideas. She did see another Lifetime Movie kind of like that, called Augusta Gone, and that was to help her learn the kinds of things that can happen when you get into that kind of trouble, even at such a young age. That one didn't cause any problems for us, and it really DID get the point across, but when she seen that one, she was not nearly as adventurous as she is now.

    I guess my question is, do any of you who have seen that movie have opinions about this ieda????
  2. ck1

    ck1 New Member

    I only watched the last hour of it last night (I'm recording it tonight so I can see the whole thing). The movie is pretty bizarre and disturbing. I probably would not let my child see it because they showed so much and it may give her some ideas. Also, I didn't think that it adequately showed any consequences for any of the kids.

    Great question! I'll be interested in reading other's views.
  3. neednewtechnique

    neednewtechnique New Member

    You are right about the consequences thing, the movie kinda ends before it gets that far. But it does make a good example of how quickly things can get out of control and how this girl who she thought was her best friend would stick up for her and then completely turned on her to save her own butt. That's kinda the point I was trying to drive home with my difficult child, but it certainly would make it a good example movie for the teens if they DID go into some of the consequences.

    I don't know, my husband and I watched this movie a few years ago and I thought it sounded like life, but he thought it was a little disturbing. I guess that is part of the generation gap, as he is 10 years older than I am, and I just graduated High School 5 years ago. Granted, I was NEVER this far out of control as the girls in the movie, but in a MUCH MILDER way I could relate to what they were getting themselves into!!!
  4. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I have very strong feelings about this movie. We watched Augusta Gone together and I had no problems with that movie and I do think it made an impression. Buy Thirteen is very bizarre. We watched about an hour and I had to turn it off. I was sorry we watched any of it. I was disturbing to me. Shortly afterwards my difficult child pierced her own nose while in inschool suspension.

    I understand the movie has a good lesson at the end but my difficult child would never have gotten it. She would have gotten caught up in all the bad stuff and think it was fun. If the movie had not been so graphic and bizarre perhaps it would be better.

    If you think your difficult child is teetering on the edge at all I would not have her watch this movie.

  5. envisablepuppet

    envisablepuppet New Member

    Originally Posted By: Nancy
    I understand the movie has a good lesson at the end but my difficult child would never have gotten it. She would have gotten caught up in all the bad stuff and think it was fun.

    That is how my difficult child always reacted to movies like that. She would say the character made bad choices and then would either do the same thing or something similar or worse.

    When my difficult child was around 13 I found a book I had read at her age called "Go Ask Alice". It became one of her favorite books and she read it many time just like I had. It was a true story written by an anonymous author. It was written in the style of a diary and I always had the idea that one of her parents or maybe a sibling had put it out. I believe it is a classic now.

    My difficult child was disturbed by the book and felt quite sad for both the girl and her family and did learn some good lessons about things she might want to avoid. Of course when she got older she still used drugs but not LSD like the girl in the book and she was also more careful of who she called friend.

    At 13 I think we need to be real careful of what kind of media lessons we allow our children to see. It has been my experience that most of the things TV character see as ok behavior and later consequences isn't ok to most parents.

    I haven't seen the movie but judging by what the others have said about no real consequences at the end of it all, I don't think I'd let her watch it.

    As for the book I mentioned above, any parent here that might think of letting their child read it, might wanna read it themselves first. It's been years since I read it but do remember there is bad language and some sex in it.

    If your wondering why I would have allowed my difficult child to read it, it was because there was nothing in it that would have shocked or surprised her. Kids were doing worse things behind the midshool here then were mentioned in the book. As for the language, nothing she hasn't heard or said herself before but that's just me.
  6. bby31288

    bby31288 Active Member

    my girls and I all watched the movie 13. Although I wouldn't let them watch it if their friends were around because I didn't know what their parents would want. It was a life learning lesson. They all came away with something. It was very disturbing, but it shows the reality of wrong choices. If you ask my daughter who now only turned 13, she saw it at 11, I was just discussing with this her because she is sitting with me, she said and I quote "it made me realized how crazy your life can get by making bad choices, and hanging out with the wrong people" She has learned to never try and impress anyone, if they don't like her Oh well its their loss. I am not saying you should let your difficult child watch it, I am saying that it was disturbing, and weird and it was a good choice for my kids to see. Of course we watched together, and discussed during the movie and after. It actually stuck with them for weeks after, and we would discuss it again.
  7. tryingteacher

    tryingteacher New Member

    There is a book called "Reviving Ophelia". It is amazing. The author is Dr. Mary Phipher. She wrote it becuase her own daughter was aproaching adolescents. There is a second book called "Ophelia Speaks" which is girls reactions to the book. Both are great to read with girls in this age group.
  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    One of my big problems with the movie is that it goes on for a very very long time without any consequences. I kept waiting for the part that would teach a lesson and it never came. The kids just did drugs, drank, cut themselves, pierced body parts, had sex, skipped school and I kept waiting. In the meantime my difficult child sat wide eyed and got lots of ideas. She would have lost interest way before any lesson came out. I had to turn it off, it turned my stomach.

    I watched it with her to and discussed it. That doesn't make it the right movie for some kids.

  9. bby31288

    bby31288 Active Member

    Nancy I agree. I also watched and thought, geeze I don't think I would have let it get that far. You could see from the movie the mother saw the changes, etc. But she ignored it? Then again I have never been in that position, so I am not sure how I would react. What do you think the timeframe was for her to go from good girl to really bad, in trouble girl? Was the movie supposed to be shot from over a period of a year?
  10. DFrances

    DFrances Banned

    First remember that this movie was made in 2003 and every year things change. It is rated R for drug use, self destructive violence, language and sexuality - all involving young teens. If you would not let your teen see an R Rated movie at the theater then why would you let them see one at home? The movie is shocking, don't assume that it won't shock you.
  11. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It wouldn't have been good for my difficult child to watch something like that. She reveled in stories about troubled girls and teens with mental illnesses. One of her favorite books was (and still is) White Orleander.

    She and her difficult child friends prided themselves on being depressed and being part of a darker culture. It was in their music and dress. The would compare visits to psychiatric hospitals as badges of honor.

    She would have seen the girl in 13 as a kindred spirit rather than someone to learn a lesson from even though I don't think my difficult child was ever as far gone as the girl in the movie.

  12. goldenguru

    goldenguru New Member

    I thought it was a very good depiction of adolescent culture.

    I also thought it was a good depiction of the often difficult relationships that mothers and daughters face at this time.

    You are the mom. You know if this is a good thing for your daughter to watch. If you've got some reservations, watch it yourself first. Or at very least, watch it together and allow her the opportunity to process it with you present.

    It's kind of like the age old theory about teaching birth control. Just because you teach them about condoms doesn't mean they are going to run out and be sexually active. Just because you expose your daughter to some tough adolescent issues doesn't mean she's going to run out and engage in such behaviors. Knowledge is power in my opinion.
  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    A serious suggestion - before you watch a movie like that WITH her, sit and watch it without her and see what you think.

    Another movie which taught easy child 2/difficult child 2 to be an individual rather than run with the pack - "The Craft". Again, don't just sit with her to watch it on my say-so. See it for yourself and decide if you feel it's appropriate. Maybe in a year or more... you know her best. "The Craft" is very dark with the witchcraft etc but the end lesson is good - 'don't try to manipulate the world and everybody in it just for your own amusement. When you do that, you pay a heavy price and you hurt people. But when you go more carefully, thinking of others, good things come back to you.'

    There are other films, other TV shows, which teach a great deal but without the seamier side or the heavy rating. I'm sure we can all think of some. I remember my kids watching "Degrassi Junior High" and more recently, the "Return to Degrassi". This series should be available on DVD.

  14. neednewtechnique

    neednewtechnique New Member

    I have to say, I HAVE seen the movie Thirteen, and that was the reason I wasn't sure whether to let her see it or not. However, after much thought and discussion with her father, we did decide to allow her to watch it, but I asked her to be thinking while she was watching because I wanted her to pay close attention to how quickly things spun out of control after only a FEW bad choices, and I also told her to pay close attention to how quickly the girl's "BEST" friend turned on her when things got rough.

    We did talk about it afterwards and she seemed to really take some things out of it, and to be completely honest, the only "thing" that hasn't been a part of her life already is body piercing...

    Not necessarily HER, but the cutting, she already cuts; the drugs, she REALLY faults her bio mom for wrecking her life with drugs and alcohol, so these are already behaviors our difficult child HATES and refuses to be any part of; as for the sex, difficult child ALSO faults her bio mom for getting pregnant and having her too young to be ready to take care of her, so she SWEARS she will not have sex with a boy until she is married. Granted, these attitudes may change as she gets older, and I am fully aware that all the risk factors are there and will always be paying VERY close attention, but right now, her feelings about most of these issues are TOO INTENSELY NEGATIVE for her to think they are okay.

    She did tell me after she watched it that she wanted her tongue pierced...which really isn't any big deal, it is probably something that we will allow her to do anyway as soon as she can show us she is responsible enough to take care of it. I can't say much there anyway, becuase I have a tongue piercing AND a belly button piercing.

    And I have to say it is so strange that another parent on here as connected this "Thirteen" movie to "The Craft" besides me. When I was 13, I was mixed up in a cirlce of people that were modeled like the girls in "The Craft" and nothing but bad things came from it. I was never as wild as the girls in "Thirteen", but when it came to the end and we got into trouble over the witchcraft stuff, my one friend and I were the ones that got blamed for starting the whole thing, even though we were the two they had to work extra hard to talk into the whole idea. And unfortunately for me at that time, when my friend and I were excluded, we ended up dealing with things much like the girl in "Thirteen", and sorry to say we were not as strong as the girl in "The Craft." Both of us had a "breakdown" of sorts, and landed ourselves in the psychiatric hospital. Which I am sure if the movie continued, that is where the girl in "Thirteen" was headed. At least she would be if she were my child.

    When difficult child got into all the trouble she got into last night, I thought it was finally time to tell her my "13" story and I sat her down and explained the kinds of things I did, where I went wrong, and how it made me feel when it came to a NASTY end. It was at that point I actually considered I would let her WATCH "Thirteen" when it came on TONIGHT, and I also marched her downstairs LAST NIGHT and had her watch "The Craft".
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Here's hoping some of this sinks in. There is "being an individual" in name only so you can REALLY belong to a crowd (which doesn't really value the true you inside) and there is being prepared to walk alone if you have to, in order to be true to yourself in the long term. Very different things.

    Your mention of sex still concerns me - how does she define "sex"? A lot of young kids these days only use the term to describe male vaginal penetration of the female. This excludes a lot of oral sex, for example, and a lot of exploitation that goes on in some horribly young girls, simply because they are told that if they don't provide the service they won't belong to the group. This means there is no respect for the girls in this situation and they get caught up in a vicious circle of low self-esteem, lack of self-respect and feeling used. The boys involved in this also get a very distorted view of how to interact with girls appropriately. Nasty stuff, not shown in movies as a rule (although I don't know "thirteen" very well, I did see reviews but that's all).

    Sounds like I need to sit down with easy child 2/difficult child 2 and watch "thirteen". Gotta keep up!

  16. neednewtechnique

    neednewtechnique New Member

    Well, she does have a "boyfriend" and they are allowed to hang out together in groups, or alone under close adult supervision. This is where I really have the ADVANTAGE being so close to her in age. She is comfortable talking to me about these types of things. She and I have had many discussions about things related to sex, and she is very open with me about her relationships. The guy she is dating now has barely even kissed a girl before, and that is about as far as it has ever gone. She did have one guy that we didn't really like, but he only lasted a week. They were sitting outside on our porch and he tried to kiss her goodnight and brushed his hand across her chest, (accidentally or on purpose, not sure) but she flipped out on him and broke up with him immediately and sent him packing.
  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    NNT, you said, "...he tried to kiss her goodnight and brushed his hand across her chest..."
    THat was a mature response from her. The trouble is, a lot of boys feel caught in a Catch 22 situation - if they don't try something, will the girls think there's something wrong with them? And if they Do try it on, they get their faces slapped (but isn't that part of how the game is played? The girl has to put up a token show of refusal before she feels she's made enough of a statement about her moral standards, and can finally allow the boy to get down to business. That IS how a lot of boys think, unfortunately. "I'd better make a pass at her, or she will think I don't find her attractive enough to lose control..."

    Tragic. Utterly tragic.

    I remember when a male friend of mine did the same thing to me and I just froze on him. We were passengers in a crowded car, it could easily have been an unfortunate accident. Part of me was pleased that a boy finally saw me as a sex object and not just another 'mate' (in the Aussie sense); part of me was appalled that my friend (my 'mate') would try this. He finally worked out what he must have done and apologised; he never tried it again.

    It is so difficult to be a teenager...

  18. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    When I was about that age, a movie and book called "Go Ask Alice" came out. It was supposed to be a cautionary tale about a good girl who took drugs, ran away, and died of an overdose before she could go straight. I couldn't wait to get high and run away. And honestly, I have no idea how I lived through some of the things I did.

    "Thirteen" isn't supposed to be a cautionary tale. It's an adult movie about a loser woman neglects her daughter who starts doing drugs, self-mutilating, etc... I wouldn't let my 13 year old see it. Especially if she is hanging around with a new, wilder crowd.
  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    That's the way I felt Witz. I failed to see the lesson this movie was suppose to be teaching my 13 year old.