THIS is unacceptable!

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Tiapet, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Tiapet

    Tiapet Old Hand

    I try never to judge anyone, really I do. But what in the world were these people thinking? The heat alone plus the manner in which it was done. I have a feeling in days to come there will be more to this story from the little ones taken.

    And if that story wasn't bad enough, this story is finally come to an end but there is plenty to find in the ongoing court trial that was presented. Totally disheartening. I was tired of hearing it on the news it was so bad.
  2. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    Appears that maybe they gagged him. Perhaps that's how he died. They don't say what the cause of death acutally is.

    I cannot believe they left him there from 7 at night and didn't check on him until 4:30 pm! Sick. Just sick. Anything could have happened to him....snakes, bears, wolves. Just incredible.
  3. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    That just breaks my heart. So many parents are so cruel!!!

    I find it interesting on the 2nd article that the mom had a terrible childhood in that her mom abused her. I always hate it when people use their backgrounds as an excuse because:
    1. There are so many people out there that are just the opposite that have the same background; "I try my best to be extra kind to people because no one was ever kind to me growing up so I know what it is like."
    2. Everyone can change. If you don't like the type of person you are becoming, you can change. Except for children, they don't ususally know that there is help for them. They don't know they can call the police if parents are out of line.
    3. People just have to get past their own pride and say, "I don't care if other people think I am a terrible person, I am going to own up to it, put it in the public eye and do what is best for my child. I would rather have them judge me as I am now than when I get to the point of actually harming/killing my own child. Maybe I can change before that happens.

    It was so extremely difficult for me to put difficult child in a psychiatric hospital. I was so afraid people would look to it as my fault, my stupidity of not knowing how to parent, if I was a better parent this would not have happened. But I told myself that I did not matter in this case, that difficult child needed this and I didn't care what anyone thought of me for doing this. I put my pride away for difficult child's health.
  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I was just about to post this but see that you already have, Tiapet.

    That is so sick. It makes me wish that hell were a real place. Maybe jail will be close enough for those parents. Better yet, tie them up to a tree for two nights just to see what it feels like.

    I didn't recall the 2nd story. Argh. The birth parents must feel so awful. Why would the adoption svc place these kids with-her? Just because they were in foster care with-her to begin with-and it was easier with-the paperwork? What sort of a homestudy did they do? Didn't she have a husband? That is way too much for one person to handle. The article said she lived in a tiny farmhouse. There is no way that many kids could fit in there and not get in ea others' way and end up fighting. It's ludicrous.
    The books the minister wrote are surely influencing other people as well. I believe in freedom of the press but there's got to be some way to counteract that sort of cruelty.

    I, too, agree that your past does not dictate your future. Many of us had incredibly rough upbringings, but here we are, trying our hardest to do our best, to learn new tools, to network with-other parents in the same situation. An abuser who creates an abuser is no excuse.
    I doubt that came out in the homestudy.

    This whole thing makes me want to strangle people.
  5. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I am so sick to my stomach.
  6. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    So, so sad.

    Any psycologist would tell you that the pattern continues when you are raised in an abusive home.

    Well, I was raised in a abusive home. The most I ever did to my kids was have the 'kindness spoon.' (It was a little wooden spoon.)

    My two oldest would fight like they were warriors. I got so sick and tired of hearing their fighting. I'd get the spoon and give them each a gentle wack on the behind then make them sit knee to knee for a half an hour. Smart? No. But, people make really stupid choices when you're frustrated. Actually, sitting knee to knee was about the best punishment I could have ever given.

    My epiphany (sp?) was when I met my father's mother and realized how HE was raised. Horrible. Absolutely horrible. He had no proper knowledge of how a functional family works, hence, he brought that to my family.

    That being said, I vowed to NEVER do the things that were done to us as children.

    It's sad that lady didn't have the support to make that happen. You live what you know. I'm not defending her, just understanding that you live what you know and she didn't know anything else. It appears that she didn't have any other skills or knowledge to fall back on.

    So sad.

  7. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    In the second story, it states that this woman owned and had read child rearing books by Michael Pearl, a minister. I had never heard of him so I googled him and that's some extremely scary stuff! In the hands of the unstable, the easily-swayed or those who think that, if a minister says it, it must be true, these books would be a virtual handbook for child abuse! This man and his wife (the co-author of the books) believe that physical punishments beginning in infancy is the way that children "are prepared for "future, instant, unquestioning obedience."

    Check this out:


    A few exerpts from the book review I found on Google:

    "The pursuit of flawless children is a cruel sort of domestic idolatry. Children are a gift from God, not a battlefield. Yet the Pearls tell parents: 'You hold an eternal soul in your hand.' In an especially disturbing turn, they claim that corporal punishment will absolve the guilt of sin for children who are not old enough to understand ..."

    "In folksy, friendly style, 'To Train Up a Child' offers techniques that promise to yield happy and obedient children. This promise is a holy grail to tired, frustrated and often isolated parents, who are told that their anger will be eliminated when they follow techniques that produce 'immediately obedient' children. The book also appeals to parents' concern for their reputation -- happy, obedient children will save Mom and Dad the public embarrassment of having intractable children. It's a tempting promise: perfect domestic peace, a kind of Martha Stewart flawlessness reworked for Christian families."

    "The Pearls compare children to stubborn animals: both have the same predictable responses to unpleasant stimuli. The book advocates a consistent behaviorism that involves switching a child's bare skin until the child's will is broken. The result? A model child who is completely compliant: a model parent who is a conqueror."

    "The authors advocate tempting an infant by putting an appealing object within reach and compare the object to the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. ... When the child reaches for the object, the parents lash the child. The suggested switch for a four-month-old child is a branch 12 inches long and an eighth of an inch wide. Rulers, belts and tree branches are recommended for older children. In the Pearls' world, crystal bowls, other breakable treasures and even loaded guns can be left around the house because curious toddlers can be trained to 'complete and joyous subjection."


    This is total lunacy! And the scariest part - they've sold thousands of these books! Does that mean that thousands of frustrated parents now believe that infants and toddlers normal inquisitiveness is "sinful" but if they beat them enough, they can save them! There just are no words ...!
  8. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Now I really AM sick.
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I wonder if my mother read those books. If they were written in the 60's or 70's it's not only possible but probable.

    I grew up with that type of abuse. Thank God I didn't pass it on.

    And I do believe there is a special section in h*ll just for people who hurt children.
  10. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Lisa, according to the book review that these quotes came from, this book was written in 1994, but the child "training" theories have been around a long time. And supposedly, the books are still selling very well! Sickening!

    This stuff is seriously creepy, especially if people think they are doing it for "religious" reasons! It sounds like what was done in a lot of the religious cults, very "Jim Jones-ish".

    With "child rearing" books like this around, especially one that is written by a so-called clergyman, it's just a miracle that there aren't more children being killed, injured, or psychologically demolished than there already are! Detailed instructions on how to beat your four month old baby! Shouldn't that be illegal?
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Are we sure my mother didnt write these books?
  12. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    So why are they not going after the authors of those books?

    In Australia we do have freedom of speech, but incitement to violence and wrong-doing is generally dealt with. Any person advocating in print this sort of behaviour towards another individual, let alone a child, let alone AN INFANT, would find themselves investigated, their books removed from bookshop shelves and themselves being 'counselled' by various welfare authorities. The media here would tear tem to pieces.

    And that's just the authors of the books.

    This woman probably had no real understanding of what was acceptable and right. It's sad, but it does happen. However, anyone wanting to place children with her should have been able to easily identify her unsuitability and should, I feel, be equally culpable.

  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    That is sickening.
    A four-month-old? I'm speechless.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member