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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 428444" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>it's not always anxiety. And smallworld, what I was trying to say was that yes, medications are sometimes a trigger, but I feel it is important to consider that there can be other factors in there so even if it does look like the medications, there may be more to it. For example, a medication that heightens muscle tension in a child or makes them feel different, could lead to an increase in stimming because the child at some level feels a greater need to stimulant, to cope with other unwanted side effects of the medication. End result is the same as if the medication was directly the cause. All I am saying, is that this can be more complex that it seems. But of course, for some kids, some medications make stimming or tics worse more directly. Although I would be interested to understand the brain biochemistry associated with this.</p><p></p><p>Wintak, he sounds like he's not a good communicator. HE's probably also not as plugged in to his own mind and body as most other kids his age. For example, difficult child 3 would insist that he did not feel anxious, even when we could see him having a full-blown panic attack. The classic example I've quoted here before - we were on holiday in New Zealand, visiting hot springs and boiling mud pools in Rotarua. difficult child 3 had expressed his fears before we went to NZ, that we could be caught up in an earthquake or some other hazard due to the high level of vulcanism in the country. He was so concerned, we had a fight getting him to agree to come. Although we weren't going to take no for an answer, there was no way he could stay behind for a month on his own.</p><p></p><p>In general he was okay, but the day in Rotarua was interesting. The smell of sulfur was not too unpleasant but was pervasive. Not rotten egg gas, more like egg sandwiches on the other side of the room. He was able to eat his lunch but was increasingly complaining of feeling a bit nauseous. When we went to the geysers and boiling mud place, he was really complaining not only of feeling sick, but convinced something bad was about to happen. He looked listless, he felt feverish, he was clingy and telling me we had to leave, he was dying. We stayed the course, I said to him, "You're okay, you're not sick, you're not dying, this is anxiety."</p><p>He said, "Anxiety isn't this bad. If this is anxiety, why do I feel so terrible?"</p><p>He had great difficulty accepting that anxiety COULD be this bad. However, as we left and drove south away from Rotarua, he began to improve. By the time we got back to our rented apartment on the shores of Lake Taupo, he was feeling fine. I reminded him again tat this was another clear indication that the problem had been anxiety. Not "just" anxiety, because for him it really was dire.</p><p></p><p>An interesting follow-on point - a few days later we visited the Volcano Centre in Taupo; it's a science museum, really well done, explaining about the vulcanism in the area. It had an earthquake simulation which he even had a go in (a room that shakes) with husband. But there was a really good display showing the areas of New Zealand's North Island and how seismically active various places are. We had been telling difficult child 3 that Taupo was not so active as Rotarua (we believed it at the time) and at this place difficult child 3 discovered for himself - Taupo is HOT! It leaves Rotarua in the shade. He looked at me with a wry expression on his face and said glumly, "It figures. So much for us being somewhere SAFE!" and he glared at me again. But by that stage we had been there almost a week and hadn't been blown sky high...</p><p></p><p>Look up Lake Taupo on Wikipedia. The whole lake is an active volcanic caldera. If you look at NZ on a map, there is a spot in the centre of North Island, about the size of a glass-headed pin holding the map on the wall. That is Lake Taupo. One large crater lake. We could walk to a spot on the shore where steam was rising. I waded out and nearly scalded my feet. The experience helped difficult child 3 learn a little bit more, to recognise his own anxiety. he still needs help with it. He was about 14 at the time we were there, your son is still only 8.</p><p></p><p>As for the noises - all you an do is keep asking him to find something quieter. But what he describes, even if he says he is doing it on purpose - they're stims. And like difficult child 1 with his emu noises, they may seem to the individual that they are under voluntary control, but there is less control than they realise. I've also known them to make the noise when they are relaxed and happy, like a kid rocking in a rocking chair while reading a book. In fact, rocking in a chair is very similar. it is under voluntary control, but it is also a habit you can get into. it is very difficult for some people to sit in a rocking chair and NOT rock.</p><p></p><p>Think about those mothers with young children who ride in strollers. Have you seen these mothers in the supermarket, rocking their shopping trolley? It's a habit you get into and you do it without thinking. Stims have a component of "It makes me feel good, or feel better," plus these kids form habits really easily, and there is a habit component. A kid who has been feeling criticised constantly for being disruptive, will also take on board and accept as valid, the accusation that they're doing it on purpose. Especially if a person in authority tells them so.</p><p></p><p>His level of communication and self-awareness - increasingly, he sounds Aspie or high-functioning autistic to me. This is not necessarily bad news. </p><p></p><p>Good luck with the appointment. I hope you get some useful answers.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 428444, member: 1991"] it's not always anxiety. And smallworld, what I was trying to say was that yes, medications are sometimes a trigger, but I feel it is important to consider that there can be other factors in there so even if it does look like the medications, there may be more to it. For example, a medication that heightens muscle tension in a child or makes them feel different, could lead to an increase in stimming because the child at some level feels a greater need to stimulant, to cope with other unwanted side effects of the medication. End result is the same as if the medication was directly the cause. All I am saying, is that this can be more complex that it seems. But of course, for some kids, some medications make stimming or tics worse more directly. Although I would be interested to understand the brain biochemistry associated with this. Wintak, he sounds like he's not a good communicator. HE's probably also not as plugged in to his own mind and body as most other kids his age. For example, difficult child 3 would insist that he did not feel anxious, even when we could see him having a full-blown panic attack. The classic example I've quoted here before - we were on holiday in New Zealand, visiting hot springs and boiling mud pools in Rotarua. difficult child 3 had expressed his fears before we went to NZ, that we could be caught up in an earthquake or some other hazard due to the high level of vulcanism in the country. He was so concerned, we had a fight getting him to agree to come. Although we weren't going to take no for an answer, there was no way he could stay behind for a month on his own. In general he was okay, but the day in Rotarua was interesting. The smell of sulfur was not too unpleasant but was pervasive. Not rotten egg gas, more like egg sandwiches on the other side of the room. He was able to eat his lunch but was increasingly complaining of feeling a bit nauseous. When we went to the geysers and boiling mud place, he was really complaining not only of feeling sick, but convinced something bad was about to happen. He looked listless, he felt feverish, he was clingy and telling me we had to leave, he was dying. We stayed the course, I said to him, "You're okay, you're not sick, you're not dying, this is anxiety." He said, "Anxiety isn't this bad. If this is anxiety, why do I feel so terrible?" He had great difficulty accepting that anxiety COULD be this bad. However, as we left and drove south away from Rotarua, he began to improve. By the time we got back to our rented apartment on the shores of Lake Taupo, he was feeling fine. I reminded him again tat this was another clear indication that the problem had been anxiety. Not "just" anxiety, because for him it really was dire. An interesting follow-on point - a few days later we visited the Volcano Centre in Taupo; it's a science museum, really well done, explaining about the vulcanism in the area. It had an earthquake simulation which he even had a go in (a room that shakes) with husband. But there was a really good display showing the areas of New Zealand's North Island and how seismically active various places are. We had been telling difficult child 3 that Taupo was not so active as Rotarua (we believed it at the time) and at this place difficult child 3 discovered for himself - Taupo is HOT! It leaves Rotarua in the shade. He looked at me with a wry expression on his face and said glumly, "It figures. So much for us being somewhere SAFE!" and he glared at me again. But by that stage we had been there almost a week and hadn't been blown sky high... Look up Lake Taupo on Wikipedia. The whole lake is an active volcanic caldera. If you look at NZ on a map, there is a spot in the centre of North Island, about the size of a glass-headed pin holding the map on the wall. That is Lake Taupo. One large crater lake. We could walk to a spot on the shore where steam was rising. I waded out and nearly scalded my feet. The experience helped difficult child 3 learn a little bit more, to recognise his own anxiety. he still needs help with it. He was about 14 at the time we were there, your son is still only 8. As for the noises - all you an do is keep asking him to find something quieter. But what he describes, even if he says he is doing it on purpose - they're stims. And like difficult child 1 with his emu noises, they may seem to the individual that they are under voluntary control, but there is less control than they realise. I've also known them to make the noise when they are relaxed and happy, like a kid rocking in a rocking chair while reading a book. In fact, rocking in a chair is very similar. it is under voluntary control, but it is also a habit you can get into. it is very difficult for some people to sit in a rocking chair and NOT rock. Think about those mothers with young children who ride in strollers. Have you seen these mothers in the supermarket, rocking their shopping trolley? It's a habit you get into and you do it without thinking. Stims have a component of "It makes me feel good, or feel better," plus these kids form habits really easily, and there is a habit component. A kid who has been feeling criticised constantly for being disruptive, will also take on board and accept as valid, the accusation that they're doing it on purpose. Especially if a person in authority tells them so. His level of communication and self-awareness - increasingly, he sounds Aspie or high-functioning autistic to me. This is not necessarily bad news. Good luck with the appointment. I hope you get some useful answers. Marg [/QUOTE]
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