Today's incident.
- Thread starter Shari
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- aggressive child
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
At the end of the 08/09 year, they insisted on a meeting with his dev pediatrician, so I set it up. They just kept asking "what do we do? what do we do?" and she just kept telling them, you have to head it off before it gets to that level, you have to prevent it before it happens....over and over and over......what more can you say????
whatamess
New Member
They don't see their role in helping prevent behaviors, they think wee should have more control, they think the punishments will deter him. Sorry to tell them, but when you're dealing with impulsivity, there just isn't that forethought, they need to HELP him when he gets caught like that. They are blaming him. They need to see where they could have prevented this and be held accountable each time they do it wrong- they'll get it eventually 
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
They don't see their role in helping prevent behaviors, they think wee should have more control, they think the punishments will deter him. Sorry to tell them, but when you're dealing with impulsivity, there just isn't that forethought, they need to HELP him when he gets caught like that. They are blaming him. They need to see where they could have prevented this and be held accountable each time they do it wrong- they'll get it eventually
My thoughts, exactly, except I have yet to see them ever even address shortcomings with the paras. I went to the superintendent today, and she didn't even attempt to offer an excuse (which I actually appreciated).
And now, after last week's incident, the principal is not suspending him (I'm sure I have the attorney to thank for that), but is going to start turning him in (and they emphasized they weren't going to cuff him and haul him in this time) I can't allow that to happen to Wee while their staff gets a free pass to not get it repeatedly.
Or maybe I'm missing something.
klmno
Active Member
I could be completely off base so take this with a grain of salt- but I'm thinking they might be looking at it like this- if he can't respond to any consequences or punishment or re-direction to do what he should without ultimately resorting to physical rebellion, then he can't be in a mainstream school. They are calling in legal authorities to document and back that up. If he has reached that point I think you are going to have to give a little acknowledgement to the school in order to not shoot yourself in the foot trying to fight for appropriate placement and accommodations. If you come across as a parent just expecting teachers to cater to your child and revolve their whole day around him and what he's willing to do at that point in time, I think it might do you more harm than good. It can come across to legal authorities as making excuses and therefore, enabling him to be this way. If you acknowledge that this is the situation but nevertheless, it is the sd's responsiblity and legal requirement to educate him, then you have a valid legal point. That's JMHO.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I'm not expecting them to cater, but I do expect them to do what was written int ohis IEP and BIP. Things THEY wrote into it.
Their own FBA identified that he has trouble with transitions, yet the schedule they proposed at the beginning of this year had FIVE paras, TWO to THREE mainstream teachers, and THREE SpEd teachers EVERY SINGLE DAY for the FOUR hours he is at school. They have repeatedly not followed their own recommendations.
I have been supporting them in placing him elsewhere for some time; they aren't equipped to handle him. But I am not seeing that they have done ANYTHING productive...either with regards to getting adequate training to teach staff to head it off before it gets to this level, or getting him placed anywhere besides just sending him home repeatedly.
And keep in mind, when he was in the resource room, he had ONE minor issue in FOUR months. But they took him out of that this year...
Their own FBA identified that he has trouble with transitions, yet the schedule they proposed at the beginning of this year had FIVE paras, TWO to THREE mainstream teachers, and THREE SpEd teachers EVERY SINGLE DAY for the FOUR hours he is at school. They have repeatedly not followed their own recommendations.
I have been supporting them in placing him elsewhere for some time; they aren't equipped to handle him. But I am not seeing that they have done ANYTHING productive...either with regards to getting adequate training to teach staff to head it off before it gets to this level, or getting him placed anywhere besides just sending him home repeatedly.
And keep in mind, when he was in the resource room, he had ONE minor issue in FOUR months. But they took him out of that this year...
klmno
Active Member
And this is their problem- he does need more services but they don;t have them available. I'm facing/fighting the same problem with my difficult child- albeit it is an entirely different situation and services needed. When that happens, local authoriteis will inevitably try to blame the kid or the parent. It is very easy for the parent to become defensive against that. I'm suggesting that you step back and not play that game - no matter how much they are putting you into that role with their CYA'ing. It might honestly be that they can't educate him in a mainstream schhool- his needs exceed even what most paras can help with. I don't know and you can't go to the sd or to court and say you know that either. What you can say is that it is the sd's responsibility to find a way to educate your son and find an aproriate place to do it. If you get caught up in anything else, the judge will focus on that and not the bigger objective- in some jurisdictions.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I hear ya. My vents here aren't what I run into school and say. I guess I'm here asking if I've missed something or mis-interpreted their report and that they didn't ignore the IEP/BIP like I think they did.
And if there's an alternative that I'm missing come Monday. If this is the lever of support (or non-support, whatever the case may be) that he has and the principal is going to start turning him into the juvies and cuff and stuff him going forward, do I dare send him to school? 'Cause we all know nothing is going to magically change come Monday. And I think that's really not in his best interest to be put in a situation that we know will go south at some point.
And if there's an alternative that I'm missing come Monday. If this is the lever of support (or non-support, whatever the case may be) that he has and the principal is going to start turning him into the juvies and cuff and stuff him going forward, do I dare send him to school? 'Cause we all know nothing is going to magically change come Monday. And I think that's really not in his best interest to be put in a situation that we know will go south at some point.
klmno
Active Member
I get that. And since I don't know how things play out in your jurisdiction but I am fully aware that they play out differently in diiferent places and for different people, I won't say that this opinion is a strong one. OK? But here it is-
You very well might end up before a judge at some point whether you take it to court or the sd's calling in police does. If you are in court and the sd presents that they have tried so many para's, working with you on an IEP, BIP, suggestions, etc and "this boy" has still fought back and gone so far as to "assault teachers on more than one occassion to the point that we have felt the need to notify police and we really don't have anything else we can do for this child". And then you say "if the para had just done ABC"--- well, you might not win or even get the judge to take you serious.
If, on the other hand, you take a position of "I know we have tried every idea we can in IEP meetings and while i still think accommodations thru the IEP would solve this problem, I realize that the sd does not, therefore I can only take the position that the sd needs to find a school where Wee's educational needs can be met because clearly, this school cannot meet them and the law requires that they find a way to educate an 8yo child", I think you have a much better chance.
It is VERY hard but when legal authorities become involved, we parents have to start discussing our kids like they are clients instead of our offspring or we will not be taken seriously- at least where I live.
You very well might end up before a judge at some point whether you take it to court or the sd's calling in police does. If you are in court and the sd presents that they have tried so many para's, working with you on an IEP, BIP, suggestions, etc and "this boy" has still fought back and gone so far as to "assault teachers on more than one occassion to the point that we have felt the need to notify police and we really don't have anything else we can do for this child". And then you say "if the para had just done ABC"--- well, you might not win or even get the judge to take you serious.
If, on the other hand, you take a position of "I know we have tried every idea we can in IEP meetings and while i still think accommodations thru the IEP would solve this problem, I realize that the sd does not, therefore I can only take the position that the sd needs to find a school where Wee's educational needs can be met because clearly, this school cannot meet them and the law requires that they find a way to educate an 8yo child", I think you have a much better chance.
It is VERY hard but when legal authorities become involved, we parents have to start discussing our kids like they are clients instead of our offspring or we will not be taken seriously- at least where I live.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I get that.
I have said repeatedly if they can't educate him, they need to find a place that can.
Their own attorney is telling them that.
I can't fight this fight tonight. I'm not in front of a judge yet. Right now, I am making sure I have a case to take in front of a judge and that there aren't any alternatives to not sending him to school on Monday. What I say to the judge is a ways off yet.
Its my understanding that the IEP is a legal document they are required to follow, and if they're not, I have legal recourse. Maybe I'm completely off base. I need to go to bed. I can't do this any more today.
I have said repeatedly if they can't educate him, they need to find a place that can.
Their own attorney is telling them that.
I can't fight this fight tonight. I'm not in front of a judge yet. Right now, I am making sure I have a case to take in front of a judge and that there aren't any alternatives to not sending him to school on Monday. What I say to the judge is a ways off yet.
Its my understanding that the IEP is a legal document they are required to follow, and if they're not, I have legal recourse. Maybe I'm completely off base. I need to go to bed. I can't do this any more today.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Oh, and Wee has maintained, from the time I picked him up, that the sub told him he could play cards, then the para said he couldn't. I don't know any more of that story, except Wee has never lied about what's happened at school. All of his stories that I could check out, did.
He says the sub told them they could play cards while the sub took turns pulling them out and reading with them 1 on 1.
Not that it matters.
He says the sub told them they could play cards while the sub took turns pulling them out and reading with them 1 on 1.
Not that it matters.
Farmwife
Member
I can't say what I am really thinking or it would get bleeped and I would get in trouble.
Just a simple thought;
"least restrictive environment"
Not sure how the authorities being called to potentially arrest a YOUNG child with a demonstrable IEP/BIP covering condition is least restrictive. The school has documented (incriminated itself) with non compliance with the IEP/BIP.
Furthermore, placing him in a special school (unless you prefer it) without actually following the IEP/BIP first is likewise not least restrictive. Our school is under focused monitoring by the state for this very thing...
I see wees difficulties as perfectly illustrating that;
1. He clearly needs his plans to be followed
and
2. They are not following through as legally obligated
Perhaps request an IEP review meeting (fight fire with fire) and tell them you want written documentation of both the attempt to place him in the alternative school as well as all incident reports in which wee's behavior was an issue and how the para implemented the REQUIRED strategies to prevent a meltdown. You have an absolute right to complete transparency of his care and records.
Furthermore, as a member of his IEP team I would think they were obligated to inform you of trying to place him at the other school as that would have been a change in IEP without notice, no?
I mean, heck! If they want to call out Johnny law on an freakin' 8 year old (pardon my french) and try to turn him into some ill raised monster in the courts eyes they better darn tootin' have some real and legit. evidence to back it up. Know what I'm sayin'?
I guess I fail to see how their failure to do their jobs and wee, a clearly needy student acting exactly as should be expected when he is mismanaged makes HIM the problem.
Getting wrapped up in the "system" hoovers, no doubt about it. That doesn't make them right though, now does it? I'm not an expert but I would venture to guess that any potential cases over his behavior are a juvenile criminal/family court issue whereas a school case is either under the school board mediation judge or if you sue a civil matter. Civil cases are NOT generally heard in the same court as criminal. (I hate to use the word criminal but that is the two basic categories of courts) So, the court may busy itself with your private affairs as a parent but a criminal juvie judge has zero jurisdiction over school issues. (it's like a traffic court judge ordering a divorce, just not gonna happen) They may be able to order you to do things as a parent like go to counseling but they cannot order the school out of it's responsibility. Know what I mean??
I would also make sure to mention the schools history with wee to any potential liasons between yourself and the juvenile authority should it come to that. The juvie system has less time, money and inclination to deal with you than you think. The school passing the buck just taxes an already overworked and abused system. The last thing they want is to clean up a lazy schools mess. It isn't their mess to clean up and trying to funnel a child into the system at 8 doesn't look especially good. Don't think the school won't come under just as much scrutiny as you.
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
Like I said, I am no expert but if and I do mean if, if if if you could afford an attorney or have an access to advocates you sound like you have a heck of a legal case against the school building.
Have you taken any steps to file official complaints and grievances? It sounds like you are getting backed into a corner where you may have no other choice but to do so before the school tries to throw wee in front of a bus.
I'm so angry on your behalf!
by the way, is there anyway you could go with him on Monday and intervene with the para when they are clearly not following the iep/bip? Something like an "excuse me, but if you read the iep you would know this is not how we are supposed to handle this sort of behavior"...kind of like reminding them how to do their job?!?!? Show them examples of when and how to do it right...
Just a simple thought;
"least restrictive environment"
Not sure how the authorities being called to potentially arrest a YOUNG child with a demonstrable IEP/BIP covering condition is least restrictive. The school has documented (incriminated itself) with non compliance with the IEP/BIP.
Furthermore, placing him in a special school (unless you prefer it) without actually following the IEP/BIP first is likewise not least restrictive. Our school is under focused monitoring by the state for this very thing...
I see wees difficulties as perfectly illustrating that;
1. He clearly needs his plans to be followed
and
2. They are not following through as legally obligated
Perhaps request an IEP review meeting (fight fire with fire) and tell them you want written documentation of both the attempt to place him in the alternative school as well as all incident reports in which wee's behavior was an issue and how the para implemented the REQUIRED strategies to prevent a meltdown. You have an absolute right to complete transparency of his care and records.
Furthermore, as a member of his IEP team I would think they were obligated to inform you of trying to place him at the other school as that would have been a change in IEP without notice, no?
I mean, heck! If they want to call out Johnny law on an freakin' 8 year old (pardon my french) and try to turn him into some ill raised monster in the courts eyes they better darn tootin' have some real and legit. evidence to back it up. Know what I'm sayin'?
I guess I fail to see how their failure to do their jobs and wee, a clearly needy student acting exactly as should be expected when he is mismanaged makes HIM the problem.
Getting wrapped up in the "system" hoovers, no doubt about it. That doesn't make them right though, now does it? I'm not an expert but I would venture to guess that any potential cases over his behavior are a juvenile criminal/family court issue whereas a school case is either under the school board mediation judge or if you sue a civil matter. Civil cases are NOT generally heard in the same court as criminal. (I hate to use the word criminal but that is the two basic categories of courts) So, the court may busy itself with your private affairs as a parent but a criminal juvie judge has zero jurisdiction over school issues. (it's like a traffic court judge ordering a divorce, just not gonna happen) They may be able to order you to do things as a parent like go to counseling but they cannot order the school out of it's responsibility. Know what I mean??
I would also make sure to mention the schools history with wee to any potential liasons between yourself and the juvenile authority should it come to that. The juvie system has less time, money and inclination to deal with you than you think. The school passing the buck just taxes an already overworked and abused system. The last thing they want is to clean up a lazy schools mess. It isn't their mess to clean up and trying to funnel a child into the system at 8 doesn't look especially good. Don't think the school won't come under just as much scrutiny as you.
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
Like I said, I am no expert but if and I do mean if, if if if you could afford an attorney or have an access to advocates you sound like you have a heck of a legal case against the school building.
Have you taken any steps to file official complaints and grievances? It sounds like you are getting backed into a corner where you may have no other choice but to do so before the school tries to throw wee in front of a bus.
I'm so angry on your behalf!
by the way, is there anyway you could go with him on Monday and intervene with the para when they are clearly not following the iep/bip? Something like an "excuse me, but if you read the iep you would know this is not how we are supposed to handle this sort of behavior"...kind of like reminding them how to do their job?!?!? Show them examples of when and how to do it right...
flutterby
Fly away!
What about the police officer that said they wouldn't do anything (paraphrasing)? Wasn't he going to call the school? Could you talk to him again?
I know this doesn't help the situation re: the IEP and BIP not being followed, but it might just take the wind out of their sails.
I know this doesn't help the situation re: the IEP and BIP not being followed, but it might just take the wind out of their sails.
Marguerite
Active Member
He kept interrupting, the report says. But it doesn't explain anything more. That tells me, more than anything else, that they don't get it. One of the first things they should have done, is work out WHY he was interrupting, what he was trying to say.
To a small child, things can be of urgent importance. Who knows what was bothering him? He ay have had a sore foot and felt it needed to be attended to urgently. You don't hush a child who is trying to say the same ting over and over; if necessary, you take him outside, listen to him there, deal with it and then he is far more likely to sit quietly. And they clearly don't get this, because they made passing reference to this as the starting problem, but never delved into it to really find out what was the trigger. Then they set things off by trying to insist on good behaviour, instead of helping him behave.
If you get to talk to them, Shari, go back over the whole incident with them to use it as a teaching tool for them. Make it like watching a CCTV coverage of the incident. "OK, here - this is where you should have done things this way. This is how it would then have gone. These were your alternative options at this point. Here is the likely outcome form each option. This is why this should have been done."
Right back at the basics.
Marg
To a small child, things can be of urgent importance. Who knows what was bothering him? He ay have had a sore foot and felt it needed to be attended to urgently. You don't hush a child who is trying to say the same ting over and over; if necessary, you take him outside, listen to him there, deal with it and then he is far more likely to sit quietly. And they clearly don't get this, because they made passing reference to this as the starting problem, but never delved into it to really find out what was the trigger. Then they set things off by trying to insist on good behaviour, instead of helping him behave.
If you get to talk to them, Shari, go back over the whole incident with them to use it as a teaching tool for them. Make it like watching a CCTV coverage of the incident. "OK, here - this is where you should have done things this way. This is how it would then have gone. These were your alternative options at this point. Here is the likely outcome form each option. This is why this should have been done."
Right back at the basics.
Marg
Shari - just my opinion here. The police are *not* going to arrest Wee or do anything else to him at this age and with his history. The SD's strategy of calling the police for these incidents is just further evidence that they in way over their head. If the outside-district school can't/won't take him, then SD needs to find another placement. They don't get away with saying there's nothing else. But it may very well take a DP hearing officer to remind them once and for all of their obligations to Wee.
Calling police is not a behavior management strategy, and I think every time they do (or threaten to), it just digs them into a deeper hole and is yet another objective paper trail of *their* failure to educate him appropriately, to say nothing of how it affects Wee - what on earth does SD think police interaction is going to do??? Sheesh - it's like if not walking were a crime and Boo's SD called the police every time he didn't walk - it's the *disability* already. The SD needs to get competent people in (or find an appropriate placement) so that Wee can be educated. (I know preaching to the choir.) I'd be sorely tempted to remind them that, unless Wee is convicted and sentenced as an adult, SD is *still* going to be responsible for his education - they aren't going to be able to get rid of him this way either.
This whole situation needs to come to a head and soon because every time this garbage happens it further disrupts Wee's already disrupted education. I know you know that - my heart just aches for you and Wee. Gentle hugs to you.
Calling police is not a behavior management strategy, and I think every time they do (or threaten to), it just digs them into a deeper hole and is yet another objective paper trail of *their* failure to educate him appropriately, to say nothing of how it affects Wee - what on earth does SD think police interaction is going to do??? Sheesh - it's like if not walking were a crime and Boo's SD called the police every time he didn't walk - it's the *disability* already. The SD needs to get competent people in (or find an appropriate placement) so that Wee can be educated. (I know preaching to the choir.) I'd be sorely tempted to remind them that, unless Wee is convicted and sentenced as an adult, SD is *still* going to be responsible for his education - they aren't going to be able to get rid of him this way either.
This whole situation needs to come to a head and soon because every time this garbage happens it further disrupts Wee's already disrupted education. I know you know that - my heart just aches for you and Wee. Gentle hugs to you.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Good morning all.
Marg and Heather, when I picked Wee up yesterday, the officer that I went to after the principal's initial threat of police involvement was sitting at the conference table with the principal. SHe insisted on filing a report with the juvenile office, and he told me his hands were tied since she insisted. What he did offer me was having talked her out of insisting Wee be "cuffed and stuffed". And that decision wasn't up to him, but he felt he could talk the juvenile officer that he had to report this to out of it this time. He has no option if she insists on this route.
And in the course of the 45 minutes that I met with them (while, ironically, Wee sat unattended in the principal's office. except for as he would bounce in and out of the conference room we were in) I tried to explain the breakdown, just as you said, Marg. Sommething happened either immediately prior to Wee going to the table, or when he got there, but the real "why" of all this is not in that report, either. Wee is not disruptive for the sake of being disruptive. His reason for it might be "dumb", but I've never known there to not be some reason for it, at least in his mind. Anyway, I said all that, and the principal ended up mad and getting loud with me for blaming the school when they are trying and for not getting on the same page and supporting them and for not letting go of the past. Just like last week, when she just knew things were different this time and Wee gets it because he was so upset at being out of school, and her suspension was going to make a difference...you are right, they don't get it, and I have no idea what more I can do to make them. Their own attorney gets it, and even he can't seem to make them understand where they are screwing up - I dang sure don't know what more to try. And when I pointed out that the IEP/BIP wasn't used, she said she has 300 other students and 100 staff members, she can't be in there all the time.
I was hoping to wake up this morning with a different outlook or idea, but I haven't. As long as his staff is allowed to continue to screw up, and Wee is accountable, now to the law, for what results, I can't send him there. I think we need an emergency IEP meeting, Wee doesn't go to school unless I have a garauntee of no authority involvement, and I don't even know if that's enough. I don't even know what the attorney can do at this point
And Farmwife, in 1st grade, they HAD ME attend with him every afternoon - and know what? He participated in every single class activity and did the work for 5 months WITHOUT A SINGLE INCIDENT. I understand what you are saying but its not very realistic for me because I have a job and you never know how long it will take for the next blow up. My job may be history, anyway, at this point. Also, in 1st grade, I took a week off to do just that. I went in to observe him and then to use what I saw to train the paras. I had a notebook sheet full of stuff. Things like in art, he was told to clean up and after he cleaned up, he went and got a pencil to draw some more, the para didn't even speak to him, she just yanked the pencil (forcefully) out of his hand and grabbed him by the upper arm and took him back to his seat. He hid in a corner of the room, and instead of leaving him be, she dragged him by the upper arm into the hall (and I mean literally dragged....not "guided", dragged). He wanted to work on a work sheet and he wanted to work on the floor with his shoes off. She picked a fight over working on the table and resulted in him hitting her with a pair of safety scissors. She later turned it in that he stabbed her and drew blood (I was in the flippin' room, when it happened, she ran across the room and told the other paras, laughing about it!) and he was suspended, and that was the end of observing, and nothimg was ever done with that information. Another time I was in the room, when I was supposed to be working with him and the para was to be observing, I gave him manipulatives to use to do a math problem (he was stuck on "add", and the problem was "subtract") and she got mad and told me he was quite capable of doing the work if he just wanted to, and I just needed to leave and let he do the job.
Obviously those paras have been long gone, but its quite obvious the crew he has now isn't much better.
ANd Sue, you are absolutely right, and I think this may be the head, because I really see no option at this point. I can't, in good faith, send him back there. They will turn me in for educational neglect, I'm sure, but I don't see any choice. Maybe I'm missing something.
Marg and Heather, when I picked Wee up yesterday, the officer that I went to after the principal's initial threat of police involvement was sitting at the conference table with the principal. SHe insisted on filing a report with the juvenile office, and he told me his hands were tied since she insisted. What he did offer me was having talked her out of insisting Wee be "cuffed and stuffed". And that decision wasn't up to him, but he felt he could talk the juvenile officer that he had to report this to out of it this time. He has no option if she insists on this route.
And in the course of the 45 minutes that I met with them (while, ironically, Wee sat unattended in the principal's office. except for as he would bounce in and out of the conference room we were in) I tried to explain the breakdown, just as you said, Marg. Sommething happened either immediately prior to Wee going to the table, or when he got there, but the real "why" of all this is not in that report, either. Wee is not disruptive for the sake of being disruptive. His reason for it might be "dumb", but I've never known there to not be some reason for it, at least in his mind. Anyway, I said all that, and the principal ended up mad and getting loud with me for blaming the school when they are trying and for not getting on the same page and supporting them and for not letting go of the past. Just like last week, when she just knew things were different this time and Wee gets it because he was so upset at being out of school, and her suspension was going to make a difference...you are right, they don't get it, and I have no idea what more I can do to make them. Their own attorney gets it, and even he can't seem to make them understand where they are screwing up - I dang sure don't know what more to try. And when I pointed out that the IEP/BIP wasn't used, she said she has 300 other students and 100 staff members, she can't be in there all the time.
I was hoping to wake up this morning with a different outlook or idea, but I haven't. As long as his staff is allowed to continue to screw up, and Wee is accountable, now to the law, for what results, I can't send him there. I think we need an emergency IEP meeting, Wee doesn't go to school unless I have a garauntee of no authority involvement, and I don't even know if that's enough. I don't even know what the attorney can do at this point
And Farmwife, in 1st grade, they HAD ME attend with him every afternoon - and know what? He participated in every single class activity and did the work for 5 months WITHOUT A SINGLE INCIDENT. I understand what you are saying but its not very realistic for me because I have a job and you never know how long it will take for the next blow up. My job may be history, anyway, at this point. Also, in 1st grade, I took a week off to do just that. I went in to observe him and then to use what I saw to train the paras. I had a notebook sheet full of stuff. Things like in art, he was told to clean up and after he cleaned up, he went and got a pencil to draw some more, the para didn't even speak to him, she just yanked the pencil (forcefully) out of his hand and grabbed him by the upper arm and took him back to his seat. He hid in a corner of the room, and instead of leaving him be, she dragged him by the upper arm into the hall (and I mean literally dragged....not "guided", dragged). He wanted to work on a work sheet and he wanted to work on the floor with his shoes off. She picked a fight over working on the table and resulted in him hitting her with a pair of safety scissors. She later turned it in that he stabbed her and drew blood (I was in the flippin' room, when it happened, she ran across the room and told the other paras, laughing about it!) and he was suspended, and that was the end of observing, and nothimg was ever done with that information. Another time I was in the room, when I was supposed to be working with him and the para was to be observing, I gave him manipulatives to use to do a math problem (he was stuck on "add", and the problem was "subtract") and she got mad and told me he was quite capable of doing the work if he just wanted to, and I just needed to leave and let he do the job.
Obviously those paras have been long gone, but its quite obvious the crew he has now isn't much better.
ANd Sue, you are absolutely right, and I think this may be the head, because I really see no option at this point. I can't, in good faith, send him back there. They will turn me in for educational neglect, I'm sure, but I don't see any choice. Maybe I'm missing something.
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ShanDiann
Guest
Wow!
Hugs to you!!
I am no expert but it really seems like if they would have given him some space and just allowed him to play cards with the other kids, he probably would have regrouped himself and been able to continue with his day. I by no means am advocating for rewarding poor behavior, but every child I have ever taught can be distracting to others at times. Spinning the coins just doesn't seem like that big of deal. It seems like the school has made a mountain out of a mole hill.
Hugs to you!!
I am no expert but it really seems like if they would have given him some space and just allowed him to play cards with the other kids, he probably would have regrouped himself and been able to continue with his day. I by no means am advocating for rewarding poor behavior, but every child I have ever taught can be distracting to others at times. Spinning the coins just doesn't seem like that big of deal. It seems like the school has made a mountain out of a mole hill.
klmno
Active Member
Shari, my heart goes out to Wee. I agree that the sd has not done what they should but I wouldn't be able to handle this level of "incident" every time I turn around and although you might be right to fight it, I can't see that it's getting Wee an education. I also agree that at this point, I wouldn't want my son going to school there. I think I would cringe. Maaybe requesting an IEP meeting with the director of Special Education in attendance to review placement is a good idea. If they say they don't have a school to seend him to, I'd say that is their problem.
As far as the police involvement- this all varies from state to state but most have some sort of "team" of reps from the various agencies (MH, sd, courts, etc)- that team determines services to give to families with extreme circumstances, at-risk youth, etc, and approves government funding to be spent on said services. It is called different names in different places but appears to be similar no matter what the name. Anyway, the sd usually has direct access to have a meeting for a student that might need a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and funding for it, as example. But I'm wondering if the sd is getting something documented with juvenile courts in order to have more weight with this team- it actually could work against you or for you. Not that Wee should go to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), but if they ever mention needing to go to an "ABCD team" to get funding approved, you make sure you go to that meeting too, if possible, so you can advocate for the services you feel Wee needs. Here, the sd can go to that team without the parent but the parent is allowed to attend in some circumstances. The parent can also request a meeting with "the team" but has to have a referral from one of the agencies in order to get it- if it is under these circumstances the parent has to be invited to attend. And they can apply pressure on the sd to do what they should and probably will because they want the sd to have services provided out of sd funding instead of going to county/city/state funding when possible.
I know a person who had a difficult child and when she was in early elementary school years the parent started having to deal with things like this at her school and when he started pushing for adequate accommodations which the sd was not prepared to give, the sd had a meeting with "the team" and the parent didn't know it. The parent said the next thing he knew, there was a knock on his door one evening and that whole team was there at his house prepared to do some sort of intervention and pressure him to allow intensive wrap-around services for his daughter so the sd could work with her better. He happened to have a profession that gave him enough knowledge about the system to realize what was going on and held his ground that they did not need that- it wasn't a family problem causing this- and ultimately, he convinced the team that his daughter did have a diagnosis and needed more services at school. But it was chaos for a while.
It appears this might be what the sd is trying to make happen with your family- but of course, I can't be sure of that.
As far as the police involvement- this all varies from state to state but most have some sort of "team" of reps from the various agencies (MH, sd, courts, etc)- that team determines services to give to families with extreme circumstances, at-risk youth, etc, and approves government funding to be spent on said services. It is called different names in different places but appears to be similar no matter what the name. Anyway, the sd usually has direct access to have a meeting for a student that might need a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and funding for it, as example. But I'm wondering if the sd is getting something documented with juvenile courts in order to have more weight with this team- it actually could work against you or for you. Not that Wee should go to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), but if they ever mention needing to go to an "ABCD team" to get funding approved, you make sure you go to that meeting too, if possible, so you can advocate for the services you feel Wee needs. Here, the sd can go to that team without the parent but the parent is allowed to attend in some circumstances. The parent can also request a meeting with "the team" but has to have a referral from one of the agencies in order to get it- if it is under these circumstances the parent has to be invited to attend. And they can apply pressure on the sd to do what they should and probably will because they want the sd to have services provided out of sd funding instead of going to county/city/state funding when possible.
I know a person who had a difficult child and when she was in early elementary school years the parent started having to deal with things like this at her school and when he started pushing for adequate accommodations which the sd was not prepared to give, the sd had a meeting with "the team" and the parent didn't know it. The parent said the next thing he knew, there was a knock on his door one evening and that whole team was there at his house prepared to do some sort of intervention and pressure him to allow intensive wrap-around services for his daughter so the sd could work with her better. He happened to have a profession that gave him enough knowledge about the system to realize what was going on and held his ground that they did not need that- it wasn't a family problem causing this- and ultimately, he convinced the team that his daughter did have a diagnosis and needed more services at school. But it was chaos for a while.
It appears this might be what the sd is trying to make happen with your family- but of course, I can't be sure of that.
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