Too late; they called the police

Marguerite

Active Member
I'm so glad this went so well. I hope that things can finally begin to click into place from here.

About the cross-dressing/sexuality concerns - if your husband has been so much in denial over these problems (aided and abetted by a complacent psychologist) then how on earth would he cope if he had to accept that his son was cross-dressing in a big way?

Also, cross-dressing (if that is what is happening) isn't always connected to homosexuality. I had a male flatmate who used to borrow my clothes and ask me to help him with his make-up. He was VERY heterosexual; I was in the next room and had to sleep with ear plugs because he and his girlfriend kept me awake all night with their "nocturnal activities". The people in the downstairs flat also complained. Frankly, I think he had his one night a week cross-dressing (the night his girlfriend was at work) to give himself a break from being so thoroughly, competitively, testosterone-laden the rest of the time.

There are also ways he can 'legitimately' cross-dress. My flatmate would wear a caftan sometimes, he had a floor-length nightshirt (it was a 'formal' nightshirt with a black bow tie and black stud buttons down the front, worn with cufflinks). And he joined a Scottish highland dance club and attended a lot of highland dance nights - wearing a kilt. Perfectly legitimate, nothing effeminate, but a novel way to enjoy the feeling of freedom in the nether regions without anyone realising he was enjoying some cross-dressing.

Mind you, that doesn't mean that all kilt-wearers or caftan wearers are secretly cross-dressing. It's just that for a cross-dresser, it was a different way to wear a skirt.

I don't think you could be accused of encouraging it, or causing it, if you got him involved in a pipe band or a highland dance club. All you would be doing is hopefully giving him a more legitimate outlet. If he could get enough from this, it could mean he wouldn't feel so much inclination to nick knickers.

Marg
 
I am glad that the police were helpful! How AWESOME for you!

I'm sending all kinds of good juju that his next testing goes well.

FWIW, I think you handled it great. I think you have been handling it great all along.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Wow, not often you read a title like that with an outcome like this!

Maye I should start a list of potential towns to move to....this would be on it.

Marg pointed out some good things, too, but everything sounds really positive.
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Thank you all so much. You've all been through a lot.
I don't know how we survive it all, except that we take our responsiblities seriously, and we still love these kids like no one else would.

I wasn't aware that multicolored fingernails were a part of Goth. Good to know!

Also, difficult child has a "girlfriend." He came right out and told us and was smiling ear-to-ear. She asked him to dance at camp this summer--the short, 1-wk camp--but she lives in MD. They have called one another several times. He's pretty funny about the whole thing. He did not call her at all for a mo. and I encouraged him to. He said he was nervous and didn't know what to say. I told him I'd script him and write it down; simple things like, "Are you planning on going to camp again next summer?" or "What do you watch on TV?" He said no, thank you, and then added with-a crooked smile, "I can get them (girls) but I don't know how to keep them."

I'll say!
I think the panty thing is a developmental issue and he will outgrow it, or at least, it will not affect his heterosexuality. In fact, with-his impulsivity. husband and I are worried about how many girls he will get pregnant. easy child and I were joking about an early vasectomy. Like, 8th gr. :)
He does not get into wearing female things publicly (except the fingernails) and dresses in jeans and tshirts most of the time. (Yesterday I bought him some new jeans that look old ... not as bad as some with-gaping holes. I cannot justify paying good money for a rag. But he was very happy with-them and put them on right away. His old jeans are just at his ankles.
He's gone from a 10 slim to a 16 slim in 11 mo's.

Considering the growth spurt and the Major League BO, I know a lot of this is puberty X10. How to live through it ...
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Speaking of BO etc. I have always had my doubts about his hormone level being too high. He had hairy legs when he was two.
Do you all think that when I get the 5-1/2 hr psychiatric testing, I should ask for endocrine blood tests as well? Or would that be something his pediatrician would do?
I'm probably just clutching at straws ...
 
Glad to hear things came to a head and he HAD to face someone other than you about his behaviors. Hopefully you'll be able to use the resources given.

We've had 2 talks with police/sheriff deputies. While it seems silly, therapist called and asked to speak to an officer when difficult child kept "stealing" icing tubs from our cupboards. The officer talked to him in the therapists office for about 10 mins. In the hallway, I heard the officer ask if he has a good home environment ~ to which the therapist replied he does. I called our sheriff to talk with a deputy after difficult child tried lighting leaves on fire at the school ballfield ~ in case he did it again and someone else called on him. It was more of a side note, with-o a file created so they knew what they were dealing with if it came to that. Neither time did I receive a call, note or visit from DHS.

Good Luck!
 

klmno

Active Member
It was recommended that I take difficult child into the pediatrician's office for a COMPLETE physical when we had neuropsychologist testing done. I told the pediatrician's office when I called to make an appointment that difficult child was having testing done and I'd like to get as much blood work, etc., checked as as I could.

Nothing was revealed from the pediatrician's check up, but I have noticed that my difficult child has his big problems right before a major growth spurt- it started about the time he turned 11 yo and has been consistent- once a year, the same time of year, 3 years in a row. The pediatrician didn't seem to make issue of this, but psychiatrist did find it interesting and took note of it. It stands to reason to me that hormones bouncing off the walls during puberty can coincide with a chemical imbalance like BiPolar (BP). After all, the typical moodiness for a kid in puberty multiplied by 100 would be what???
 

klmno

Active Member
Terry, just out of curiosity, is the psychologist or pediatrician pescribing your difficult child's medications?
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
The pediatrician. The psychologist wrote a ltr to the pediatrician and it is kept on file.


Thank you all! Your info is great!
 

Wiped Out

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Just wanted to add in how great it is the police handled it so well. I was worried when I first read the title of the post!
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Terry,

I don't think this will effect your son's heterosexuality or other sexual choices. The multicolored nails on a boy are a sign of goths OR a girl friend with too much sway over him and not enough to do (been there done that with a friend and her boyfriend - she was ALWAYS painting his nails. He kept removing the polish, but wouldn't tell her no. )

As for CPS, the cops here haven't called them, except after I refused to let him stay here. CPS was repped by a senior staff member who KNEW us from thank you's basketball. they also reviewed the file and told the judge they couldn't name another family who had done as much for a child as us. They told the judge they understood teh decision because we had 2 ohter kids to consider (this was when the judge asked if our kicking difficult child out was neglect or abuse or actionable). Basically they said takinghim back here would be abuse to the other 2.

I had NO IDEA they were consulted until we were in court. So they may be consulted but not do anything unless this results in court.

Keep records about what you have done, who does it, and what the outcome was. Even a simple note on your calendar will greatly help you when and if problems arise.

I think having a full physical with blood work is a great idea. I also think you need to find a psychiatrist. A pediatrician really is NOT trained or capable of handling our kids specialized needs. I know our pediatrician did prescribe both prozac and zoloft to jess for the PTSD, but when those were not good, she told us she couldn't help. The pediatrician HAS given us 1 month scrips to tide us over when we were between docs due to insurance changes, but that is ONLY with the records from the specialist.

I can say that the school police officer was an AMAZING source of ideas for help for my difficult child. He gave me a 2 page, small font list of places that took kids for specialized treatment. I can even say our therapist was floored - she had been in practice over 10 years and NEVER heard of most of the places! I let her make copies of the list and she has sent me a few thank yous over the years since. They helped her with other patients in our area who couldn't find a placement.

I can say that the police DO know my son, and if something did happen in the hours he was known to roam, it wouldn't surprise me if they asked him some questions. This is why we curbed his nocturnal wandering and got him to tell us where he would be. I hope they don't come knocking on your door if something happens in your area. That would be scary.

Anyway, more hugs coming your way. I hope your husband and the idiot psychologist who chalked this up to "guy stuff" don't give you too much hassle. Even if they do - get the evaluations done!
 

Marguerite

Active Member
Terry, you said, "I think the panty thing is a developmental issue and he will outgrow it, or at least, it will not affect his heterosexuality."

It's the other way around. The panty thing isn't going to affect his sexuality; if anything, it would be the other way around (if there is ANY connection with sexuality). It would be his sexuality causing/influencing the panty thing, if anything.

But it could be something completely independent.

Also, hormonally the effects on sexuality are something that is believed to happen before birth, in the development of the brain. It is influenced by fluctuating hormone levels in the mother's blood then modifying to an unknown extent the development of the brain.

Once the kids are born, let alone on the edge of puberty, what's done is done. While some may have some degree of curiosity or choice, homosexuality generally isn't a matter of personal choice. It's a matter of how your brain was programmed, long ago. From my reading, a male homosexual brain doesn't put out different hormones, but in some cases it can respond to hormones differently to a heterosexual male brain.

Human behaviour, including sexual behaviour and sexual preference, is very complex and involves multiple systems.

If you're concerned however that there could be some hormonal defect then by all means ask for some tests to be done. But I doubt it would affect his behaviour in this way.

For example, I noticed back when I was 20 and had never been pregnant, that I was producing a small amount of milk. I was very shy about it, it took some months for me to see a doctor about it. I didn't need to see an endocrinologist because a GP was able to order the tests he felt were needed, to rule out possible nasty conditions. The first thing he ordered was serum prolactin levels. They were above normal. Next test - why? The worst case scenario was a tumour in the pituitary, which could have been connected to a few nasty conditions. Back then the best test was a skull X-ray because the pituitary nestles in a tiny bony depression on the cross-hairs between the ears and directly behind the eyes. A pituitary tumour would deform the bony depression.
Mine was normal.

So the doctor said there was no need to do anything, I wasn't producing enough milk for it to be a big problem for me. It just mean that when I eventually had kids, I had enough milk to feed an orphanage.

Even though I had raised prolactin levels, I was otherwise feeling normal. I didn't have a burning desire to grab every kid I saw and breastfeed it. My behaviour was fairly straightforward.

In the same way, if you take the serum blood levels of the most effeminate gay male you can find, it is highly likely that his hormone levels will be boringly normal, even his testosterone. Maybe especially his testosterone!

The Olympics are perhaps a topical case in point. Seeing very tall basketball players reminds me of the hormonal disorder, pituitary giantism. It's where a pituitary tumour (this time causing excess Growth Hormone secretion, not the prolactin-secreting one they were looking for with me) is present before puberty and leads to the child continuing to grow, into adulthood, with the bony end-pates not closing over. And so height continues to increase.
But if the tumour is removed or blocked in any way, the excess Growth Hormone is dealt with and the person stops growing. But once tall, they won't shrink again. The person is now taller than they would have been.

Injections of Growth Hormone would be banned by the Olympics, but I'm not sure of the status of someone who had a naturally-occurring growth hormone-secreting tumour which has bee surgically cured. Why should they be penalised? The only advantage it gives is height; there are disadvantages which could outweigh the height. And if you did a blood test on them once cured, their Growth Hormone levels would be normal (maybe even lower than normal).

Has this explained it better, or been more confusing?

Endocrinology is fascinating.

Marg
 
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