Took away his phone. He took off.

susiestar

Roll With It
I sometimes marvel at the depths to which a person will dive because they want everything to be their way and only their way with no compromise and no real comprehension of the very clear and obvious consequences of 'their way'.

Your hubby can sleep because he knows that fretting and worrying will accomplish exactly nothing. He also knows that a good night's sleep makes everything better and gives him the resources to deal with whatever Difficult Child will do tomorrow in a more rational way. (Doesn't it make you want to smack your hubby when they do that while you cannot turn your brain off to get some sleep?:p)

I am sorry your Difficult Child is such a jerk. That text was designed to guilt you into giving him what he wants without being so blatant as to actually threaten suicide (which would result in you calling the police and having him tracked down and sent to a hospital for a suicide watch, most likely). He wants to you feel sorry for him because he is cold and unhappy so that you will give him what he wants and to clean up the messes he makes (the physical, emotional and every other kind of messes) for him and you won't impose any consequence on him. It is pure manipulation.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
You are truly locked into the "dance". It is that horrible space in which we struggle to break free from our loved ones antics and getting sucked back in by our feelings. It just plain hoovers.
 

JKF

Well-Known Member
I've been reading along and following your posts. You're doing a great job standing your ground and I know how hard that is. Especially when it gets to the point of turning them away. Like you said, it's easier in the day time but night time is the absolute worst. My son has been off the streets since January (knock on wood) but I remember all of the sleepless nights I had wondering if he was ok, cold, scared, etc. And guess what? He was just fine. He figured out what to do on his own. Was he cold some nights? Scared? Angry? Sad? Hopeless? Yes he was but he needed to experience that in order to grow. He didn't "get it" any other way. Our kids may have problems but they are smart. They know how to survive. I know it's scary but it's necessary to let him figure it out on his own. Stay strong and know I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
 

WearyMom18

Member
I am living this manipulation right now with my daughter. Say whatever you have to to get what you want. That's her game. If that means making me pity her or even worry that she might be in severe danger; it's worth it if she gets what she wants which is where we come in as parents. I won't say I'm not still tempted sometimes because my heartstrings are tugged but I think I'm a normal person with genuine feelings and motherly instinct. I have to force myself to stay the course and continue saying no and appearing that I am unaffected by the manipulation.

My daughter is only 18 but I know that she has never spent the nite on a sidewalk or a bench because she is resourceful. There's always a friend or someone they stay with.

Hang in there Terry, you can do it!
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Terry stand your ground. My son slept on a bench wrapped in a blanket at the closed homeless shelter and then walked to work about four miles at 2:30 am to start work at 4 am. The road back NEEDS to be really tough so they will never want to go back there again.
I would follow your husbands lead and try to stay back.
I also know it is very hard to do. Warm hugs.
 

SeekingStrength

Well-Known Member
I would follow your husbands lead and try to stay back.
I also know it is very hard to do. Warm hugs.

Terry,
I hope you do this. For so many years, I felt husband was wrong, almost un-feeling, and did not get it. A decade later, I believe he was correct all along. His take on what was going on was more right than I ever dreamed. No way was I able to see that while in the midst of difficult child's manipulations. Heck, i would have refused to see it as manipulation.

Once, difficult child called while we were on a mini-vacation, wanting money for cat food. husband was totally against it. I was all about, "Let's find a Wal-mart NOW. He needs this money." We wired him $35 and I felt so much better. husband did not feel better. Certainly, difficult child bought more spice.

This was before we learned he was using spice daily, while unemployed.
Our difficult child slept on a park bench one solitary time. He has thrown this up to us every chance he gets. Never mind that he had burned so many bridges. Nope, he slept on the bench was because his parents were jerks. If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

Hang in there and stay strong. Do not be manipulated. My guess is your son wants you to feel guilty. Do not put yourself in the bulls-eye.. You will be glad later. Sure wish I had found this forum fifteen years ago.

Hugs,
SS
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Our difficult child slept on a park bench one solitary time. He has thrown this up to us every chance he gets. Never mind that he had burned so many bridges. Nope, he slept on the bench was because his parents were jerks. If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

Oh, wow, Seeking. Sometimes, one of us will post about something and all at once, we see another aspect of what has been happening in our relationship with our own difficult child child.

When difficult child son brings these kinds of accusations up, I go into a little PTSD because it was so hard for me to let that happen at D H's insistence. But like you Seeking, now I see how right D H was to take the stands he did.

I think I might even mean now, right this minute.

Thank you.

:O)

For so many years, I felt husband was wrong, almost un-feeling, and did not get it. A decade later, I believe he was correct all along. His take on what was going on was more right than I ever dreamed.

We were just posting about triangulation where difficult child children are concerned on another thread. It is so strange that, no matter how much I think I understand what has happened to my family, I sometimes see a new aspect with such clarity from the posts here on the site.

Thank you, again.

I still get such a surprise out of where we have all been together, in our family.

What an amazing thing that D H and I are still together. I held so much against him in my secret heart for all those years.

Maybe that is what is being released, this morning. A conscious acknowledgment of that, I mean.

I will never tell D H this secret.

Something tells me he already knows, right? Why else would he have kept grabbing me out of the fire and moving us far away, as far away as it took whether I said so or not.

Oh for heaven's sake. Maybe my D H is smarter than me.

Noooooooo...!

(If anyone here watches Southpark, the sound effects that go with that no would be Cartman's.)


Hang in there and stay strong. Do not be manipulated. My guess is your son wants you to feel guilty. Do not put yourself in the bulls-eye.. You will be glad later. Sure wish I had found this forum fifteen years ago.

This is such a healthy way of seeing the dynamic of the relationship. I never could believe anything that went wrong was not something I was responsible for because I was the mom. Thinking like that made me very weak and vulnerable to the child's interpretation of the moment.

Here is the thing. This is true in every aspect of our lives. For my sister, for my mom, for the kids when they are using.

Excellent post, Seeking.

Very meaningful to me.

Thank you.

Cedar
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Thank you all.

He is back.

He stayed with his ex-girlfriend and her mother. That won't happen much anymore, as they are losing the house. And it's not up to code, so I have no idea how she will sell it to one of those 1-800-webuyuglyhouses places like she planned.

I picked him up last night after husband and I had gone to an art opening. It was on OUR time. And it was still early enough in the evening that we weren't totally exhausted. (Around 9 p.m.)

difficult child took a clonidine and paced a bit, and then sat down at the table and words came gushing out of his mouth.
He apologized to husband for swearing and bringing bad friends to the house. He told us both tons of stories about these "friends" who are both about to go to jail. (I think that's one of the reasons he came home ... they got in too deep for him. And he figured out that they didn't hang out with-him much any more since he didn't have a car. Ya think?)
He said that we should not bother testing him for pot, because he had smoked it 2 nights before at another friend's house (these friends are everywhere!) and he said it was the wrong thing to do and he sat there and wondered why he was going down that path again. He said he didn't pay for it because the person had given him weed before when he had actually paid for it, and he did not receive the full amount of weed. So this was sort of a pay-back.
He also apologized for being so rude and irresponsible for the past several months, and said he realized how awful he'd been. (Can't recall the wording but that sums it up.)

So, for whatever reason, the idea hit him that this was a bad path. And he needed our help.
At that point, he was being a little too confessional and introspective, and I couldn't help it. I said, "You had a bad trip."
He said, "No, I have a conscience."
I said, "Bad trip."
husband said, "Enough!"

We both told him, nicely, that it was going to take a LONG time to trust him again and that he should not expect anything in the mean time. No phone, nothing. (Phone is moot because he's got ex-girlfriend's, but if she moves, she'll take the phone with her and I know he has considered that.)

We told him we were angry about having to lock all the doors in our house, and that we would continue to lock them as long as he lives with us. He said that he understood.

I asked him how we were supposed to help him when he yelled at us for just speaking. He said he didn't know. But he knew he needed help and couldn't go through all this struggle alone.

It was a long discussion. Almost an hour. Neither husband nor difficult child lost his temper. Voice modulation was good.

He carried and dispersed 2-50-lb bags of dirt for me last night, just after the sun set, at the beginning of a thunderstorm, because I wanted it done NOW. (Usually, he's the one who plays that card. But I also knew that the dirt would be way too heavy after the rain.)

This morning he made bacon, eggs and juice for me and his ex-girlfriend, and rinsed the dishes. He emptied the dishwasher.

Oh, and a couple of days ago, I purchased him a grocery store gift card for $25. I noticed that the only items on my credit and debit cards were for food. Instead of expensive junk food, I figured I would control the expenditures. (Yes, the credit cards are reissued and have not yet arrived.) Plus, staying at ex-girlfriend's house, he would be eating their food, and they have no money, so it was sort of for them. husband was ticked. But that was one of the things that made difficult child come home. Also, he used most of the grocery store card on his ex-girlfriend for food and drink. She passed out and hit her head the other day and spent the morning in the hospital. It never occurred to her mom to sit there and WATCH her eat and drink, which is what difficult child is doing. He goes there twice a day.
She is very, very depressed. She spent part of spring break with her bio-dad in another city. He spent the entire time making her do chores, and berating her in a bad voice, things like, "You'll never place that baby for adoption. You don't have the guts. You never do anything you say you're going to do." This, from a man who bought himself a dog that he told her was HER birthday present--a breed she hates--chose a name she hates, and she only sees it once a month. The bio mom isn't much better, but at least when she found out that D was pregnant, she left the house because she didn't want to say anything mean to her.

difficult child is supposed to plant some things for me today because I have a pulled hamstring. Fingers crossed that he keeps up the good behavior.

School starts Monday.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Terry, he probably lied a lot to you. It's not what you want to hear, but it comes from experience. All of it may be a lie. Some. Maybe, by some miracle, it's partly true. I started to take Daughter with a grain of salt, which was the only way to take her when she used drugs. My guess is your son has used pot last night and did not want to get tested, not two days ago. He may use it every day. It may be more than pot. You can't know. None of us can.

They usually have some good days, contrite days, after screwing up, but the cycle starts up again. You feel like you're on a merry-go-round. Just when you think things are better, something else gets dropped on your head.

I am not trying to depress you (honestly!), but just prepare you. He is not straightened out yet. He has not learned his lesson yet. He has many other friends besides these two who may or may not be going to jail that you don't know about. He may be having sex with this girl who may have given him the STD and he has not fessed up to H yet and is probably still doing the deed with her too. The fact is, once they get in deep, we have no idea what they really do. They pacify us to shut us up. If doing some chores will shut us up, they will. It beats having a real job. Maybe you'll even feel sorry for him and throw him some $$$. That's how they think in a drugged fog.

Hang onto the phone, no matter how many chores he does. And hang firm. The less access he has to bad people, the better it is for him and, although he won't say so, for himself too. Hugs!!!
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Yes, in fact, I woke up early this a.m., around 6, and never fell back to sleep. I drove around in search of husband, thinking he was at Starbucks. I drove to three locations.
Turned out he was at the gym. I found him as he was pulling out of the pkng lot and on his way to work.
I followed him to the office/clinic and while I was also there for a treatment, he said, "What's wrong? You're up early."
I said, "I have a bad feeling in my gut. Something is wrong."
He said, "difficult child is lying. Almost everything he said was a lie."
"I know." It's like a premonition.

I carry any money and credit cards in my pocket. Not in my purse. I lock each door every time I move from one room to another.

And now I'm waiting ... difficult child has stolen my things, and with each thing he does, he steals a piece of my heart. I dread this waiting, although I'm not sure if it's worse than waiting for him to come home when I don't know where he is. It's a different kind of dread and fear.

Why is he really being so good? His speech was so rehearsed. Sure, some of it was true.
But ... he's either running away from something very bad--bad guys he owes something to--or knows how good he's got it here and will do anything to come back.
Maybe even HE doesn't know that he can't keep up the good behavior. He's still too impulsive. He's hard-wired.

I should be doing an ecstatic happy-dance. But I feel weighted down.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
No, Terry. He isn't too impuslive to know what he's doing and he knows reality from a lie. This is how ALL people act when they are doing illegal activities, especially drugs. I don't know anyone who did anything other than drugs illegally, to be fair, so that is all I know. But when one is involved in this stuff, their words are not even worth listening to. He has done nothing that indicates he has turned a corner and you are smart to be on guard and to protect your things, although one day you might get tired of having him there while you have to lock your own doors.

Impulsivity is not a good trait. More impulsive children get into adult trouble when they grow up. But many don't and your son is past the age when impulsivity can be blamed for his behavior. I doubt medications will help him anymore since he also uses illegal drugs. A few good days used to fool me too. Remember, it fooled me into letting Daughter stay home while hubby and me and the other kids went to a waterpark hotel. She was supposed to just care for the dogs, no friends over, stay in. She had been so good, we believed in her. We wanted to believe in her. We came home early. A drug party was in full swing. It had all been a carefully laid out plan to make herself look good so we'd trust her. That broke my heart too. I get it.

The good news is she DID DID DID straighten out. Terry, a better mother you have never seen. She won't even take an aspirin...she is into natural stuff. And this could be your son too one day, but you have to be smart and not let a few good days make you happy and secure, like we did. You have to make him face the consequences of his actions and I wouldn't even have long talks with him when they are just crapola from him. Why is it ok that he took pot even if it was two days ago???? I don't get it. I'd be much harder on him than you're being, which, of course, is because you are you and I'm me ;) Just don't be so trusting that you get major time burned like we did. It's up to him to change. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Cliches are good. Don't ask me why--Billy Joel.
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
I hope your weekend ended up okay. As much as you can, just wait and watch and see what happens.

I have found that many times, I don't have to do one single thing...and things will change.

The life of a drug addict is an ever-changing life. There is lots of action, drama, chaos. They can get themselves in trouble in minutes.

Just let it happen, whatever "it" is. In the meantime, think about YOU. Check in with yourself. What do you want? What do you need? Try hard, today, to give some of that to yourself.

You are 51% and he is 49%. The more you can live that equation, the better off you will be, and the better off he will be.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
I carry any money and credit cards in my pocket. Not in my purse. I lock each door every time I move from one room to another.

Im sorry Terry but I simply couldn't live like this. This is the reason our son wont be allowed to live with us again. I work in a prison, I refuse to live in one. As everyone has said, this decision is yours, not ours. But just for the record, I have NEVER heard of this ending well for either party. It wont make him change his life. No idea who said it but there is an old saying "Locks are meant to keep an honest man honest". The fact of the matter is that if he wants into a locked room while you are gone, he will get in. Maybe its time to start thinking about protecting yourselves before you have to worry about pressing charges or not.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I slightly disagree about the locks. Sometimes it works to use them.

We had to use the "locked door" approach for a few years. Ours was not an addict, but did have major challenges, one of which is impulsivity. A locked door slowed him down enough to take away the impulse. Things got better over time.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Congratulations Insane! Honestly, yours is the first case of this helping that I've heard of. With the drug involvement in the case of Terry's kid, I doubt seriously that they will help though.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I think we had two advantages. The fact that drugs were not involved was huge, but so was the age we started at (early teens). By 18... your options are much more limited, as is the impact of certain choices. I still don't blame Terry for doing it - for herself and her own sanity.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm not blaming her for doing it. Its her house, her choice. Just pointing out that its probably not going to solve anything. Locking doors to keep your 18 year old out represents lack of trust and he knows it. Every time he looks at a padlock or tries to go through a locked door he will have one of two reactions. Either consideration about how he deserves this or anger at not being trusted. Which way would any of our Difficult Child's think on this. I'm fairly certain that mine would react with anger.
 

WearyMom18

Member
I can relate to the locked doors, hiding wallets, keys, purses and taking anything of value with me to bed...pretty ridiculous when you stop and think about it. We are the adults, the parents, the providers, the homeowners, etc and we shouldn't have to live in our own homes with fear. Home is supposed to be the safe place that is our own little piece of the world where we sleep, live, eat and live our lives - it should be a sanctuary from the stresses of life and we should not have to resort to such extreme measures to keep it that way. I have done all kinds of things over the past 4 years with the intention of making it impossible for my daughter to steal from us or hurt us but all that did was limit our lives and make us miserable in our own home! If she wanted to get to something she did! She always found a way.

We have finally come to the realization that our home which is a huge part of our lives should be safe and comfortable, where we can enjoy the benefits of our hard work and enjoy one another. It should not and will not be a place that we walk in eggshells in and feel like a pressure cooker. My daughter, now 18, has created that feeling of stress and distrust and therefore, after repeated incidents, we cannot allow her to live here. That's what it has taken but for us to be able to leave pocket change on the counter, stop locking up every electronic device or anything of value in the safe at night, etc. Crazy! We were tolerating this in our home.

When she left this last time (it's been several times), we told her that she could no longer live with us. Not only because of all the things I have mentioned here but because the level of distrust with everything she said and did was so great and because we were all (including her) miserable. Misery, that was caused by her poor decisions and poor behavior.

It's the hardest thing I have done to date I think, telling my daughter she can no longer live with us but what choice do we have? This is a lesson she is having to learn - that Gee, I really pushed them to do this and now look at what it's doing to me! A lot of these Difficult Child's are just not going to take anyone's word for anything - they have to learn the hard way.

Actions speak louder than words - have him show you for a sustained period of time that his intentions are to turn things around and only then could you begin to let him re-earn your trust.
 
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