total defiance

[Jena]

hi

so i'm here as per usual with-difficult child. last night she harrassed me till about midnight as husband and i were trying to watch a movie. which lead us to go to bed later because we kept pausing it. me trying to make "him" happy and spend time yet she wasnt' having it.

than today she got up refused to take shower, refused to meet with-tutor, refuses to write in book and do what therapist taught her.

i'm tired cant' argue with-her anymore. i'm really beat. between the hours husband keeps with work and trying to fit us in and her im floating thru my days sleep deprived like never before.

any ideas? can't pull anything from her she has nothing. she is really nasty. states i don't care etc. i said well than you tell tutor when she shows up in 30 min. you refuse to meet with-her.

she said i want to go back to school. she has no idea what's good for her. she'll bei n the nurses office in first half hour.

if she keeps pushing i might just throw her in truck and drop her off. i mean seriously how much of her can i take?

any thoughts?? advice ideas?

 

[DammitJanet]

Ok, havent been here in like a week so I am not up to speed on what you have been doing lately. Any luck yet on getting her in with a doctor yet? Have you started with that therapist yet?

Ok on her defiance and harassment here is what I would do, I would give her a bedtime. Every night she has to go to bed at say 9:30 since she is 12. I think that is what my kids bedtime was at her age. Yes I know I was strict! I would allow her to have a TV in her room but if you have satellite or cable make it basic or just put a dvd player in there. Also let her have plenty of books and audio books. I cant sleep without my TV and neither can most people in my family including my granddaughter. Tell her bedtime is 9:30 and lights out is 10. TV or book light can be on after that if she is reading but she must be in the bed. No coming out unless it is for the bathroom. If you have to put her to bed, DO NOT TALK TO HER AT ALL. Just walk her back to bed and close the door. Do this over and over for as many times as it takes. It may take you a long time but eventually it will take. You just have to not engage her at all no matter what she says to you. If she continues to act up over this, the next day you can tell her that if she continues to make these long scenes at night that you will lower her bedtime to 8:30 in order to give you time to get her to sleep. And do it. Eventually she is going to get the point that you are not going to give in to her demands. If this still doesnt work, go in and remove all her nice things. The TV you provided, the books, the radio, the toys...everything but the bed, the blanket and the pillow. Then do the bedtime and the putting her to bed. She will eventually decide being nice is going to get her the good things.

 

[Jena]

yes here it's 930 also. i do just that, yet she pounds on door bad, last night woke up my step daughter. i can't let her do that. also we were going to do tv in room yet nites my stepdaughter is here she can't use it and that wont' work. so tv thing is out. she has tons of stuff journals, etc.

what about refusing to shower, meet with-tutor? she smells like **** janet it's disgusting. i've really just had it with her. she is totally non compliant. if she keeps pushing i'm going to drop her butt off at school get a job and when she's melting down in nurses office say sorry kid i'm a work.

 

[smallworld]

The defiance may be worse because you lowered her Zyprexa. Or she needs new medications. Or both.

 

[Jena]

i thought same for a min. she's been this way since return. she's been down to 7.5 for 3 weeks now. this is her usual. she wants to "corner" me into putting her back into school. yet she is 12 and has no clue. doctor's stating dont' send her back. trust me i want her gone at this point all day. so here she is ripping me apart. amazing.

i told her do you get we're spending a fortune on therapy your refusing to comply with, i'm home for YOU so you can get better to return to school the right way. its' all about YOU as usual. i'm getting a bit tired of it. I told her you don't want to meet with-tutor you go to the door and you tell her. your old enough to make that decision than your old enough to tell the tutor it's YOU not allowing her in. YOU want to smell, when ppl make faces you just process that on your own.

i mean enough already ya know

 

[Shari]

How do you get along with the tutor? Cause I'd put the tutoring and showering right back on her and see what happens. Give the tutor a head's up that she's not showering (hint, hint, tutor, say something about the stench), and let difficult child own the consequences of that one. She can tell tutor she's not participating, and she can hear tutor's response to not showering, as well.
As for sleeping, if you were pausing the movie to deal with difficult child, she was successful in engaging you. I do know how hard it is not to respond, but you really need to find a way. Lock yourself in your room, and don't turn off that movie. If you can't ignore the banging, do like Janet said, walk her to her room but don't speak to her at all. Or lock your door and turn the volume up.
Would step-sister enjoy sleeping in a tent in the living room, since they share a room? Or maybe even difficult child? So you could utilize Janet's other suggestions? The tv and books work well for Wee (once we got him to stay in the room - which took a LONG time...)

 

[AnnieO]

Agreed. Don't turn off the movie. Don't engage. So much easier said than done.

FWIW, may want to mention - not showering definitely means she cannot go to school. If she wants to go to school that bad, she will work towards it. Natural consequence. And that's that.

Again, easier said than done. HUGS!!!

 

[Jena]

good ideas. i appreciate the support. trying to schedule my therapy for soon!! we're working on how to hanlde difficult child.

tha'Tourette's Syndrome just it my stepdaughter had test today her and i studied last night till she got it. she was super nervous today about it. i wanted her to get sleep and not have to be woken by difficult child. difficult child is unreal she'll scream and yell and use the fact that stepdaughter is in room to get me to engage.

i took her last night calmly by her arm to escort her back to her room. guess what she did she pushed back on me. i won't get physical with her i refuse. so that's when i'm at my end when i see she'll physically push back on me. and honestly i'm not even rough with her. i speak real calm if i have to speak.

nights kids aren't here and it's just 4 of us i'll lock my bedroom door, she knows her coping skills journaling, drawing, listening to music and that's that. husband and i just sit there like ok when will she finally give up. it is rough for easy child though also whose room is right next to her's. than she wakes up easy child who than cant' get up in a.m. and is late to school due to difficult child.

she infects entire household and i truly have to figure out how to stop her. as sweet as she can be is as horrifying as she can be. tent in living room wouldnt' work . we're challenged on space to be honest. it'sa real small 3 bedroom tiny living room, den has my stepson in it already. id' like to put difficult child on the lawn!

 

[Shari]

Maybe H needs to ask his ex to keep the kids for a while so you CAN deal with difficult child. Come bedtime, the kids go back to mom's for a while if its a crucial night for sleep. And if difficult child is going to start getting physical, then remove YOURSELF.

I understand space constraints as we live in a very small house (800sf, and at one time, there was 6 of us), but they make very small one person tents that pop up and down in a few seconds.

If difficult child knows you'll "do something" when step-daughter is there, then you need to find a way around her loop-hole, or it won't end. What would she do if you walked out the door in the midst of her screaming?

I know none of these ideas are great. they're all hard to implement, but you gotta figure out something, and being that its going on years, now, you know as well as anyone that the eventual "fix" isn't going to be easy.

 

[Jena]

i agree and smalls right also its' largely due to medications as well. she needs a medication change. all the zyprexa is doing now is blowing her up like a balloon which is adding to the depression. when medications correct and i can get that kid in the bed she will sleep.

i think i'll get ear plugs for stepdaughter, this way difficult child can throw whatever fit seh wants and she wont' be affected. we did go thru a period where he dropped kids at bedtime. soo not fair to them due to difficult child though.

so i think medication change, ear plugs for my other daughter might work. than i just have to work thru the showering and adhering to therapy and tutoring. tutor and i spoke for a bit today she saw me and said rough night? i said YEA.

at this point with cps still crawling about let there be witnesses to what this child does. get this difficult child stood infront of me screaming in my face i won't takea shower did you hear me? repeatedly till i walked away than screamed it from her room to me. i continued to 45 min not to respond. i said simply if you aren't meeting with-tutor than answer door and you tell her.

it took 45 min for her to stop scraeming at me and than take a shower. life shouldnt' be this way....... it's just all soo wrong

 

[Shari]

it took 45 min for her to stop scraeming at me and than take a shower. life shouldnt' be this way....... it's just all soo wrong

Try to let go of what things "should" and "should not" be. It makes dealing with the hand you've been dealt that much harder.

One year at Christmas, I had myself hellbent on having a "nice family Christmas" like families "should" have. I planned and schemed and put things in place to make it happen. We were going to celebrate several days before Christmas to remove the anticipation factor from it for Wee. Wee went into a tyrade, anyway. Driving him in my deisel was the only thing that stopped the screaming and physical aggression, so I ended up driving almost 350 miles for 6 solid hours without ever getting farther than 30 miles from our home in an attempt to make that fantasy Christmas happen.

I gave up on Normal Rockwell. We go for more like Larry the Cable Guy Christmas now.

 

[Jena]

lol i'm sitting here in my last free 5 min exhausted she is with tutor and finally caved and sat with her and that just made me laugh ALOT. you are very funny sometimes....... i just dont' want the stress of it anymore. i'm trying everything i can to implement to lower my own stress. yet it still isnt' enough when faced with her toe to toe each and everday for hours on end from wake till sleep.

she's beating my butt overall! i gotta drag easy child to therapy now than difficult child to park while easy child works her junk out and all i have to do now is nap bigtime. im so tired i'm actually naseous lol so insane

 

[svengandhi]

This, to me, is a control issue. You went out without her, you had a fun time in the city with husband and she's not having any of that because it takes the focus off of her.

It's tough when the stepkids are there because they're entitled to a quiet house and time with their dad. When they're not there, though, I would just "Ferberize" her. Give everyone in the house ear plugs, lock her door and yours and let her scream. In some ways, her emotional development is like that of a 2 year old. The world revolves around them and it's our job to train them to survive in the world. She is using your love and sympathy and guilt to manipulate you.

When we were Ferberizing our difficult child, when he actually was 2, he would climb out of his crib, lay on the floor next to the door and shriek until he fell asleep. H's cousin came to stay with us around that time and difficult child would yell out "Help me, Bob, help me, they is killing me" till he fell asleep!

Good luck.

 

[Andy]

O.K. This may be wrong - I am thinking out of the box here but would you be willing to remove yourself from the house for an hour when she starts this? I think her emotions and behaviors are directed soley to you. How good would H be at handling her if you were gone? It would be interesting to see how she would behave if you were not there.

When Diva was being horrid, I would grab difficult child and leave her at home with husband for about 1/2 hour or so. Her anger was against me and she would take it out on difficult child but never on husband. I would say something like, "I am not dealing with this behavior. I will return when you settle down." husband was really good about tuning it out, not engaging.

She needed a time out but I was unable to get her to take one so I left the scene with husband in charge of keeping her safe. I refused to be screamed at and harrassed and if she would not back down than I would leave.

 

[Jena]

sven hey, i can soo relate to that!! sheesh we or I did same. id' hold her down in her toddler bed for hours my hand on her back as she kicked and screamed to fight sleep and staying still on certain nights, most actually.

she dove out of the crib year and a half old and cracked her elbow took 4 hr surgery to repair it than lead us to toddler bed. we tried and did everything nothing helped at all. she' go into kitchen at night pull pans out etc. than we put gates around she got past those. we have literally struggle for years with-this behavior. i NEVER when she was little pulled her in my bed to calm her, or make it end i fought the fight same as i do now. difference is now i have more kids and she's affecting everyone else. she wont' even "cope" on her own in her room if we give her ok here's a list of coping skills. only thing that works is the right medication to knock her out. medications only work for a percentage of time than they adjust we increase than they eventually stop working.

so yea it's 12 years of exhaustion. i remember as an infant what she'd do break day sooo many nights just her and i on the couch because my ex h couldnt' get sleep and was working two jobs at the time and easy child had school in a.m. i was like what's wrong with-this kid. she wouldnt' adhere to nursing she literally gave me horrifying infection my milk which well was alot wasnt' enough for her. it didnt' calm till we got her on solids. even than she would lay in her bed, crib, etc. moaning sucking her thumb for hours till she finally passed out.

she got handed one bad bad lot of genes bottomline.

andy that wouldnt' work we tried that. husband doesn't have the patience for her at all. she'd just lay awake in bed till i returned than harrass me. only place it works is in hospital because as she said she feels safer because ppl are there to watch and check on her and also its' quiet no action at all at least in her room with both hospitals. also hospital is the control factor here at home we dont' have one just the medication and way too many variables... its' the same behavior during day as at night.

 

[DammitJanet]

Call Supernanny. Seriously.

 

[Jena]

wait i got it mary poppins lol. super nanny my butt unless shes' willing to dispense medications...... nope she ain't the woman!! her little let's give her a time out bs wont work here she'd have to come in packing lol

 

[DammitJanet]

You have tried everything else, why not? I have seen her take on some astounding kids - and families, on that show. They deal with ADHD regularly now. I bet they would jump threw hoops to help your family.

 

[Josie]

I took a different approach with my daughter and assumed she did not want to act that way. I treated it as a medication and anxiety issue. Before she was on medications, I had her lay in her bed and I checked on her regularly so her anxiety didn't get out of control. I started with every minute or maybe two minutes. When she could see that I would be back quickly, she was able to stay in her bed and eventually relax.

I was able to move past the every minute check to every 5 min, 10 minutes, then longer. It really did not take long at all for me to be able to say I would be back to check on her, and it would be 20 minutes later, and she would be asleep. Seriously, a week or two was all it took. Then I didn't have to really check at all and she did not get anxious.

I didn't know it at the time, but this was just like exposure therapy.

If she is overly anxious, it will be tough to get to sleep. I don't see how letting her scream it out helps you or her. Just my opinion and what worked for me.

 

[Shari]

Janet, FWIW, I really would like to see what Supernanny would do with some of our situations. She took the little boy with autism and had some really good ideas (I always wonder if the effects last, but regardless, her ideas are often good ones).

Hope, that's a good idea, too. That's why I love this board...I take it from the angle that her difficult child is worse when the other kids are there and knows mom will respond. But you're right, what if it really is anxiety-driven and not attention-seeking (even if its not conscious attention-seeking). Good idea.