Trying to get out of school? What are his rights?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by forkeeps251, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. forkeeps251

    forkeeps251 Member

    I figured someone here might have had this problem...

    We have had more and more frequent calls from the school, and most recently from daycare to pick my 6 YO difficult child up. It occured to me today, and my mom and husband seem to agree with me, that he might be acting out now just to get sent home. He hates school, and has a problem with one little boy in particular, and every time something happens, there is mom or dad or grandma there to take him home (where everything will be ok). I mean, obviously it isn't "playtime" when he gets home. He is sent to his room or made to sit down and do his work that he missed in school when this happens, but I think he hates school enough to make that worth his while.

    I have a feeling if the school would stop making us pick him up, that we would see a lot less of this type of behavior. The school doesn't have any sort of on campus suspension. The only option for him is to sit in the office and do his work, and apparently that isn't working for some reason.

    I'm also feeling like the school isn't doing enough to try and keep him there. The reason they couldn't keep him in the office is because he was being defiant (threw his work on the ground). What is the school required to do? He DOES have an IEP and a BIP. Also, when is it time for an advocate to step in? Are those costly?
  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    It is time to ask for an FBA for the specific issues/behaviors that are resulting in his being sent home. How many times has he had to leave school? At 10 there is a mandated manifestation determination where they must look at whether the behaviors are related to the disability (of course it is) and how they must then change the IEP/BIP and develop positive behavioral goals to teach the skills to allow him to stay in school.

    Put it in writing just like you did for the first evaluation.

    Sending him home is not a positive intervention and is not working because he does not have the skills needed to stay. Kids who are wired differently need to learn tools to deal with the issues in school and a punishment will not magically put those skills into them no matter how much they are motivated to avoid a punishment. And as you pointed out, for many the stress relief of going home...even if they are on well worth it.

    Hope they listen to you!
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    ADHD + anxiety in a 6 year old? There is MORE going on than just ADHD (been there done that).

    Who did the adhd diagnosis?
    Has he ever had an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory and motor skills?
    Has he ever had an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation for auditory and auditory processing issues? (he's getting close to the edge where they can test everything)
    Has he ever had a comprehensive evaluation? i.e. neuropsychologist, or child developmental team, or similar? This would involve multiple hours of testing, not just a 1-hour visit.
  4. keista

    keista New Member

    Any time you need help, is a good time to call an advocate.

    Obviously the IEP and BIP are not working.

    When my son was in middle school, they started calling me to come pick him up. He wasn't doing anything bad, he just wasn't functioning (depression) During the IEP meeting my advocate made a point of stating that each time they call me to pick him up, it has to count as a suspension. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT??????????????????? I was not ready for that and thought she was crazy. She just patted my hand so I kept quiet. The point is that if the child gets suspended so many times and the behavior is related to the disability, additional protections and accommodations would kick in. I still didn't like it but I trusted her. Needless to say, I never got a call from the school again.

    Yes it sounds as if he's learned how to get home. What I want to know is what the issues with the other little boy are? I'll tell you that 75% of DD1's problems were all caused by other kids. Granted she is responsible for her own behavior, but if these kids would behave the way they were supposed to, then she wouldn't have a problem and wouldn't go off the deep end.
  5. forkeeps251

    forkeeps251 Member

    His diagnosis was done by a (phD level) psychologist at a large children's hospital. In it they did say to monitor for possible Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)... so that is something that we have considered having him tested for sooner rather than later. I've had a few people say "He doesn't seem to be on the spectrum" and an equal number say "He does have a lot of the signs"... so I don't really know what to think now. Other than getting him another evaluation.

    The one that he has was just two appointments, one was an hour long, the other one was several hours. He has had SOME evaluations from a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP), at least in the school setting. He is and always has been speech delayed. As far as an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation, that is something that we plan on doing soon, but insurance doesn't cover that. I'm 100% convinced that he has some sensory issues with sound/loud noises. They've figured this out at school and he goes (voluntarily) to sit in the office with the office staff when they have big school wide assembly's and stuff.

    I need to look more into a neuropsychologist evaluation. Based one cost, I'm not sure if we could afford to have one done if insurance doesn't cover it. How does that differ from what he had done before with a psychologist?

    At this point he has an appointment next week with a psychiatrist to see about ADHD medications. I'm very interested to see what happens with that. I'm hoping the behaviors that are getting him into a lot of trouble are going to lessen. He is very aggressive/physical/violent at school. We don't see this as much at home. Our appointment was supposed to be last week but it got delayed due to screw up by the scheduling staff at the office.

    Buddy - I'm going to look into that, but I have no idea what that is. Can they just keep sending him home like this? I would have to go back and see how many times he has been sent home but it is probably pretty close to 10.

    Quitting my job isn't an option, I'm the main breadwinner, besides that we need both incomes. They other option is pulling him out of school or enrolling him in "alternative" school. But I can't keep taking off at a moments notice from work when he misbehaves, or I'll end up without a job!
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    We found that an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation wasn't extreme on the expense side... we had to pay for our own, and wish now that we had done it sooner. Definitely more affordable than paying for a neuropsychologist!

    How long ago was the evaluation done? They don't like to do comp evaluations more than about every 3 years. I'd say yours was somewhat comprehensive... 4 hours is a tad lower than some, but there was definitely testing done, not just an "educated opinion".

    Keep in mind that many or most kids with ADHD, have other stuff going on too. Half of them will have Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) (developmental coordination disorder - neuromotor developmental delays related to motor skills). Many will have learnign disabilities, and 70% of the ones with learning disabilities will have Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) (auditory processing disorder). That doesn't even count sensory issues...

    Our experience? anxiety was at least 90% caused by Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). (the rest was due to the social impact of motor skills in class and on the playground)
  7. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    That sounds like it might have been similar to a neuropsychologist. You might want to check with that person and see if that's the case. Do you have a copy of the report with all the tests they did? That might be helpful.

    Yes, they can but I have a feeling that if you count them up and "remind" the school how "close they are to the 10" they might stop calling all the time. On the other hand, if he has an IEP and BIP, you can always request an IEP meeting to "revise the IEP and BIP that are obviously not working". That might also elicit some help on their part instead of pawning it off on you.

    Something is going on at the school that is causing him to try to escape the situation. Will he tell you what is going on? It sounds like his anxiety is through the roof at school and he's learned that the anxiety goes away when he leaves so it is a learned coping mechanism for him. You need to find out what is going on there that is making him so anxious. Is he being bullied? Is he having trouble with the work? Is he having trouble with the environment? There could be all kinds of things. An FBA is definitely called for and his IEP and BIP need revising asap. The school needs to step up and TEACH him replacement strategies and they can't do that if they send him home. Make them do their job. An advocate is never a bad thing to have. You can call your state's dept of education and ask them where to find one.
  8. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    Your child is entitled to a free and appropriate education. Sending him home should not be an option. I agree with the others that he needs a FBA and an amended IEP, BIP. I also think that getting an advocate is a great idea. SFR
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member All good stuff but go down to where it says Functional Behavioral Analysis/Assessment

    ON this site you can enter any search in so try suspension, dismissal, removal etc. Keista is right, even if they call you at the end of the day to get him it is to be counted as a suspension because they must follow the law for programming. He needs behavioral goals in the IEP to teach skills along with a Behavior Intervention Plan that is based on positive strategies and if what he has is not working then it is to be modified. Include in the plan that data will be reviewed every three weeks and if any behavior is not improving or getting worse (or if new behaviors are arising) then the plan will be modified based on the data, not opinions and adding punishments. FBA's can be done over and over.... each one is specific to specific behaviors.

    Positive Behavior Support Plans:

    Just a few of the many many resources. I hope you can get an advocate to help you. This is often an ongoing issue and if you start with an advocate now then as the school years go on you will have a good foundations to use.

    A good plan that people actually follow can make a world of difference and we have had some wonderful years when this has gone the way it is supposed to go! So dig in and let us know how it is all coming along ok???
  10. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    If he has been sent home more than 10 days, they are in violation of the law. Call an IEP meeting to address his frequent suspensions (yes, each time they send him home it is a suspension regardless of what they call it). Perhaps he needs a different placement.
  11. forkeeps251

    forkeeps251 Member

    Thanks everyone!! difficult child was in the principals office again today, and he called me. I had sent an email earlier to his teacher, and I guess she forwarded to the principal, because he said he was reading it when difficult child came in. In it I suggested that everyone leave difficult child alone for 30-60 minutes to let him calm down and regroup. They tried that, and it worked and he was able to go back to class. Thankfully, it only two more hours left in the day so maybe I won't have to come pick him up today!

    The part of the conversation I had today was that the most upsetting to me was when I asked exactly what he did to get sent to the principals office to begin with (while in the principals office he knocked a chair down, that resulted in the phone call). But when I asked him that, the principal said difficult child was getting out of line on the way to the cafeteria. Ummm.... Really? I pretty much said OK, and then what? Because sending a kindergartener to the principal for getting out of line in the hallway on the way to the cafeteria seems absurd. And he said "well it just got worse from there...", and so I asked him how specifically it got worse? And guess what... he didn't even KNOW. So for all I know, and for all he knew, difficult child got sent to the principal for getting out of line in the hallway. Hmmm.

    After this time, my mom (a former teacher) had lunch with her former boss (retired principal of an elementary school), and her friend was very upset about the way he had been treated. She asked if sending him home was part of the IEP, and the answer is no, it isn't. She said they aren't doing what is in the IEP, and she had some strong recommendations. In fact, she said that she might be willing to come to the next ARD meeting as an advocate. My mom and I think this would be highly entertaining because 1) the lady knows what she is talking about and 2) she isn't likely to take any bull and isn't afraid to say what she thinks. Anyway, it is really something I'm considering. The last ARD meeting was 4-5 weeks ago and since then it seems as though things have gotten worse, so I think I'm pretty justified in requesting one. I'm going to work on trying to figure out how many times he has been sent home.
  12. keista

    keista New Member

    Yes! Get your mom's friend to come as an advocate!

    Had to smile because son was always getting out of lines. Solution? He always got to be last. Was even in his IEP. It was a sensory issue/claustrophobia kind of thing. Didn't like the other kids around him so much. At the end of the line he got to regulate his personal space.
  13. keista

    keista New Member

    Yes! Get your mom's friend to come as an advocate!

    Had to smile because son was always getting out of lines. Solution? He always got to be last. Was even in his IEP. It was a sensory issue/claustrophobia kind of thing. Didn't like the other kids around him so much. At the end of the line he got to regulate his personal space.

    by the way that "going down hill from there" in my opinion is all irrelevant. You want to find the tiny issues that cause things to 'go down hill' Fix those and there are no hills to go down. As he gets older you can address his self-regulation when things go bad. I'm still working on that with my 16 y/o

    That was just supposed to be an edit, sorry for the doublepost.
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    OMGosh, they really need to learn about picking battles. He very likely does not even get the line concept when actually moving. And it could also be that having people so close to him is too much. Q also walks in the ends of lines. Or to the side with the teacher or an aide. Sometimes they give him things to carry for them, or a cart to push. (a job). This is exactly why they need an FBA done so they can pick the behaviors they want to work on, and the rest need to just take a back seat. If that is what they are doing...picking at every little thing, he is going to explode. This is exactly what happens to my son when one staff can't stand that he tips a chair back, another can't handle his tapping his foot, another hates the words he uses, another hates how he chews his food, etc.... it is just TOO MUCH. I love that someone can come as an advocate. Great plan!
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    The whole situation is nuts, in my opinion. What is wrong iwth these people who have so many years experience that they cannot handle one 6yo kid? Lots of what they send him home for seems like stuff that every kid his age does. in my opinion it is them trying to get him out of their school, period. Because if he isn't there, they can pretend they are all perfect. Stupid stupid stupid.

    Don't you have to sign difficult child out when you pick him up at school? Tell the office you want a copy of his attendance report and you will wait while they print it out. Say it is for a doctor's appointment. They CANNOT refuse to let you have a copy, or you can just ask to see a copy of his file, but I would want a hard copy of this.

    I hope you are aware that each time they send him home usually counts as a suspension and at 10 days suspended they have to find a more appropriate placement, even if it is out of district or hard to find. Your son's right to FAPE in LRE is the same as every other child' right and by insisting you come to get him they are actually suspending him with-o doing the paperwork. They may not tell you that the law sees it that way, but it does. They also probably won't tell you that 10 days suspended means that they must PAY for anoth rplacement because they can't handle him. You might want to take a look around your area to see if there is a school or program you think would be a better fit for him. I don't know all the details of this, but I do know that they are way out of line and probably won't tell you about the 10 day rule.

    Do you have an advocate to help with this? Your mom and her friend might be great advocates because they probably know the laws. If they can't/won't/are not up to the task, contact the state dept of education and ask about getting an advocate. They are FREE to parents and they go to IEP meetings, and other meetings to help protect your son's rights.

    I am sorry they are so incompetent at your son's school.
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    in my humble opinion have him tested by a neuropsychologist. A lot different than most psychologists because they have extra training in the brain. We have done both. I would not trust school testing. They have an agenda. It costs money to help our kids.

    Occupational Therapist (OT) and ST should be covered for free at school if he needs it. in my opinion don't have an Occupational Therapist (OT) or ST diagnose anything. They aren't actually supposed to or qualified to diagnose, but they can really do great interventions.

    If you go to a private party, you can have an assessment done as often as your insurance allows. At certain times, when things were really rough, we had two assessments by two different types of professionals, a year apart. Quite a difference in intensity of testing and outcome.

    We are here for you! Please keep us updated :)
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    School Occupational Therapist (OT) will only cover those things absolutely directly and obviously related to school... such as fine motor skills affecting writing. Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation needs to cover a broader base, and is important to get done outside of school. Sensory issues, for example, can have a huge impact (including on school), but school won't test for that.

    School Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) on the other hand, MAY be a different story. Depends on how far they are "allowed" to go. For a minimum, you will need to know exactly which tests were done, and the detailed results, so that you can evaluate whether an outside Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation is necessary. In our area, schools won't do an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation after age 8 - it's "assumed" that if there is a problem it will be caught by then... its mostly a way of controlling the budget.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My son got physical therapy for sensory issues. He still has them, but they are much better. Everything was done at school and accommodations were made for him (such as testing in a quiet place, like the library). He also got his speech therapy at school and they did a great job.

    I don't recall who diagnosed my son with sensory integration disorder, but I believe it was his psychologist, since it was pretty obvious. He wasn't even three years old yet but there was no dispute over it. When a kid gags on certain texture foods (barfing at certain lumpy ones), covers his ears and screams at loud noises, won't wear certain texture clothing, and the like it is not hard to diagnose. I diagnosed it before he even saw We never had to see a private Occupational Therapist (OT) or pay one. We just got Occupational Therapist (OT) services. Same with PT and ST and social skills. It was just very apparent that he was behind in speech too and needed exposure to other kids. We were lucky. Didn't pay a dime.

    Could be a difference in countries!
  19. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Yeah, us too MWM, Q actually gets more on the lines of sensory Occupational Therapist (OT) than the fine motor (that he also needs and easily qualifies for) int he school. As long as they can read his writing at all, big deal. The fact that it takes a long time for him to cut out the pieces for an academic activity so by the time they need to do it he is spent... big deal. But they constantly survey and work on the sensory accommodations. They are not as good about a proactive sensory diet though. I am hoping the new school will be since that is a huge focus in the whole school.