Turns Out that difficult child's Biggest Problem is Me

[klmno]

Yes, on another type of "intensive in home therapy" that PO was trying to order for us once, when I looked it up it actually said that they "identified the stressors in the home and intentionally induced them until the parentts and family members found a more effective way to deal with them"- working under the premise that the problem was inadequate coping skills for stressors. And that is how they helped?? by intentionally inducing the stressors over and over until the people just figured out a better way?? I swear, I didn't need anyone coming to my house to do that. I had to dig pretty deep to find that- the info put out to the public of course just talked about how they helped families learn better coping strategies to minimize stress and conflict. That sounds wonderful, right? But if you dig into the "how" they accomplish this, which was info meant to provided to agencies who might contract them and aren't very sympathetic to parents, then you find what they really do.

 

[crazymama30]

I just don't know what to say, it has all been said. Whatever. Someone just has to be to blame don't they?

 

[keista]

I felt very hurt when you said that I don't know how to difficult child enough love. I do love her, I have always shown her I love her, but she is a child with some known psychiatric diagnoses and these are making my life as a parent very difficult. This is not a problem I have created. This is a problem within her brain, caused by a biochemical imbalance. I asked for help because I love her and want to find a way to reach her, even with these mental problems."

As always Marg's response is quite stellar, but what MUST be emphasized is the MENTAL ILLNESS. As I was reading everyone's comments about MST and other systems, it became clear that NO ONE seems to give credence to the MENTAL ILLNESS. Do this , do that, and you should live like the Brady Bunch! Yeah, if there is NO MENTAL ILLNESS.

I know I often get derailed by other ppl, and lose sight of the ILLNESS. Ask Miss Ally if she ever got cancer, does she think it could get hugged and loved away?

 

[TerryJ2]

Sorry I'm so late to this ... I just wanted to make sure you're not paying for these sessions, and that they're not mandatory.

 

[TerryJ2]

I know I often get derailed by other ppl, and lose sight of the ILLNESS. Ask Miss Ally if she ever got cancer, does she think it could get hugged and loved away?

Absolutely.

I saw a film in 7th gr about a child with-mental illness, who was helped by love, but not cured. The nuns emphasized that love does not cure mental illness. Thank heaven even back then, some people had brains.

 

[compassion]

This is why my monthly Nami meetings are so important. It is a brain disorder. I did not caude it, I cannot cure it, I cannot contorl it. I can have compassion though for my ill daughter and our family. Someitmes all I want is validation. I just went to Nami on Monday after a 3 month hiatus. Where else is there everyone there that has experinced Baker Act to phoptial (most within last few onts, including me with my daugghter)???? It cahnges once they hit 18, suddenly it is them. She was baker acted in May totally noting to do with me, by hte police after all those times begging the police to baker act her.

 

[DammitJanet]

Well, as much as we want to hate that list about MST, you do have to realize that they dont always work with parents who visit this site. They do work with parents who have never taken a parenting class, who abuse drugs and alcohol, who beat their kids and spouses, who dont work, who are have multiple kids in multiple homes, father's with multiple baby momma's, mom's and dad's in prison, Grandparents and great-grandparents raising the kids, foster parents raising the kids, etc. It isnt always warrior moms from Conduct disorders. So yes, there are many times that they do have to work on helping to work on helping to eliminate some problem behaviors in the family unit. You cannot just bring the child or children to the therapeutic alter and say "fix them" and walk away. Many parents think that way. We dont but many do.

 

[Marguerite]

That's very true, Janet. What needs to be done here, is to help Ms Ally over the hoops she has to jump trough, to get to the realisation that this particular case is not one of parental neglect, or abuse (parental or otherwise) but primarily mental illness in the child. And tat the family are calling for help because they've already tried everything.

The cancer analogy is a good one. Let's take it a little further. You can't cure cancer with a hug, but a hug can make it easier to deal with. However, you have to also be willing to be hugged; it is not right to force a hug on someone who doesn't want one. It is also not right to hug someone when you are angry with them because the muscle tension in your body WILL tell on you, and such a hug is actually counter-productive.

Marg

 

[HaoZi]

Well, as much as we want to hate that list about MST, you do have to realize that they dont always work with parents who visit this site. They do work with parents who have never taken a parenting class, who abuse drugs and alcohol, who beat their kids and spouses, who dont work, who are have multiple kids in multiple homes, father's with multiple baby momma's, mom's and dad's in prison, Grandparents and great-grandparents raising the kids, foster parents raising the kids, etc. It isnt always warrior moms from Conduct disorders. So yes, there are many times that they do have to work on helping to work on helping to eliminate some problem behaviors in the family unit. You cannot just bring the child or children to the therapeutic alter and say "fix them" and walk away. Many parents think that way. We dont but many do.

Agreed. I think the thing in this particular case is that Ms Ally jumped straight to "blame Mom" as if all the documented diagnosis's of experienced professionals mean nothing, that the family hasn't tried everything in their power (and beyond) to help difficult child. Ms Ally needs to be smacked upside the head with those files and made to read them all in one sitting.

 

[klmno]

I agree to a certain extent, too, but they should have some clue about how to identify the parents who have gone beyond that and they should have a clue of how to deal with those situations- trust me DJ- the one we got to do MST had no clue- these are young inexperienced people who have no clue how to deal with anyone that doesn;'t fit into the box they've been trained to deal with. And it really does boil down to what they can write on the paper turned into their supervisor- do you really think they care more about our difficult children than their job?

 

[Star*]

DaisyFace,

Before you and everyone else gets so bent out of shape? May I offer a glass not even poured theory? Firstly I remember you talking about Ms. A as a person who; moreso than the others got your family situation. Then she comes out with the behavior modification/do to get theory that they ALL have to do and now she's really hit a sore spot with "You aren't loving your child as much as you need to." NOW - IF you were a Mother that did not love your child as much as you needed to and before she had said anything to that affect, but wanted to make improvements in your relationship with your daughter? What would your reaction have been? What would your body language have been? What would your DAUGHTERS reaction have been? Providing she was in the room at the time? Just think about that for a moment. I know it sounds totally redundant - but just think about it from the standpoint of say someone who had NOT been loving their child enough. The reaction and the facial expressions would NOT have been the same ones as YOURS and the same as YOUR daughters were I AM SURE.

Now - There sits Ms. Ally who I am most assured KNOWS that you DO love your daughter quite enough, and you show her how you love her QUITE enough - but PERHAPS -MAYBE - JUST MAYBE (and this is a strectch) but maybe in a session alone Ms. difficult child told Ms. Ally that HER LOGIC for misbehaving -----was that HER MOTHER DID NOT LOVE HER ENOUGH. So Ms. Ally has sat there and thought "OH REALLY? (well I will just call YOUR bluff little girl and I will DO it IN FRONT OF YOUR MOTHER!) So.....She says TO YOU......"I know what the problem of difficult child IS - and there can be NOTHING else - THE PROBLEM OF difficult child IS THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN HER ENOUGH AFFECTION ALL HER LIFE. YOU NEED TO SPEND THE ENTIRE WEEK HUGGING HER AND TELLING HER WORDS OF AFFIRMATION, and LOVING HER. - SO difficult child SITS THERE...and things - WOW MY counselor really DID listen to me - I told her something and WOW - she's going to get my MOM - to do WHAT? TELL ME SHE LOVES ME ????? FREAKING AWESOME!!! COOOL (and while the statement may have peaved YOU off? IT COULD be serving a far greater purpose between difficult child and the COUNSELOR that just is NOT necessary for YOU to be aware of AT.THIS.TIME BECAUSE - YOU KNOW, ALLY KNOWS, I KNOW - THE WHOLE BOARD KNOWS - YOU HAVE GIVEN difficult child MORE AFFECTION Than God Gives ANGELS....) HOWEVER - WHAT REAL HARM???? DOES IT DO???? TO walk around all week - and look at difficult child and say "I LOVE YOU." and then HUG HER. NONE. BUT if it builds a communication between her and that counselor - AND -------calls difficult child's bluff - AND.......In a weeks time - YOU ALL go back to ALLY and sit down and say "WELL I spent the ENTIRE WEEK SAYING I LOVE YOU, HUGGING HER and SHOWING HER AFFECTION - and SHE IS STILL NOT BEHAVING!!!!!!!" THEN what happens in difficult child WORLD TO ALLY? difficult child has NOTHING to go back to ALLY and say "WELL I did get love - BUT? NOPE. YOu asked for love - YOU GOT LOVE. and you STILL MISBEHAVED - SO WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE NOW - I SEE YOUR MOTHER TRYING HER HARDEST -----WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE NOW - YOU HAVE NONE< NOTHING< NADA - ZIP - SO TALKE TO ME ABOUT YOUR REAL ISSUES?????!!!!!!!

SEE....Sometimes - what we hear - and what is really going on in counseling - could be (and I'm not saying for certain because I don't know) but it COULD be - that this woman is really a FIRST RATE counselor - and is outsmarting difficult child - and IS on your side. The fact that shes doing it THIS way - ????? a little more than unconventional to be sure. And if she's not? THEN you take her out in the hall and poke her in the eye - or whatever it is nice Daisyfaces do. lol

But again - IF you leave counseling - and the counselor HURTS YOUR FEELINGS - DO NOT GO HOME for a week and stew - PUT THE KIDS IN THE CAR - and go back in and HAVE IT OUT ===THEN AND THERE. SHE was not worth YOU being upset all this time for. She left and never gave this a thought - and YOU have been upset for xx days. NOT GOOD. And I say - FOOEY....Especially since this is ONCE again - FOR difficult child benefit -

Just my thought - outside the box.

 

[DaisyFace]

Star--

Your post gave me a lot to think about...I may have to post that as a separate thread...

 

[DaisyFace]

Just an update -

I think I am beginning to see what is happening here.

Ms Ally IS smart and DOES have a clue. However, she is not the person designing the MST program for my child. Everything Ms Ally is supposed to accomplish is being assigned to Ms Ally by a supervisor and an "expert" who have never met difficult child or my family. Remember the Parenting 101 lessons? That was Ms Ally's first task. When I produced the certicificates from the parenting class that husband and I already took - Ms Ally was able to go back to the supervisor and say "Check. What's next?"

So - the "Mom does not know how to love"....I think that was coming off some other script. Clearly, the rewards/consequences task was not working. Ms Ally was getting frustrated that the child was not responding in the way she expected. Mom was not jumping in with some lovey-dovey response when the child started to cry... Ms Ally grasped at the next straw.

There was a brief meeting or two since that session....and Ms Ally took a LOT of notes about the events that led up to difficult child's latest meltdown.

Today - Ms Ally came in and seemed to have a new direction...and guess what?

We talked a lot about AUTISM and AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDERS and NON-VERBAL LEARNING DISABILITY!!!!! And we talked about the need to find non-traditional solutions for this child!

WHOOO-HOOOO!!!!

After that, Ms Ally did make a few comments about being a "more loving family" and things along those lines - and BOY did I ever channel the spirit of the CD Board and address that!

All along pretty much, you have seen Ms Ally as the possible chance for this to work. She has seemed, more than any of the others, to have a clue. So I think there is perhaps a chance to use her greater openness, to try to resolve this as far as possible to everyone's satisfaction.

First - she is out of line to say you are not showing enough love to your child. However, to an outside observer at the moment, you probably are NOT showing much physical demonstrativeness towards difficult child. First the kid would probably punch you out if you tried to hug her, and second it is very hard to express love towards someone whose sole communication with you is screaming. So I suggest you sit Ms Ally down and have a heart to heart with her. Use every trick in the psychology textbook, including using "I" statements and not "you" statements. For example, DO NOT say, "You are out of line to say it's my fault." Instead, you CAN say, "I felt very hurt when you said that I don't know how to difficult child enough love. I do love her, I have always shown her I love her, but she is a child with some known psychiatric diagnoses and these are making my life as a parent very difficult. This is not a problem I have created. This is a problem within her brain, caused by a biochemical imbalance. I asked for help because I love her and want to find a way to reach her, even with these mental problems."
By expressing your concerns as "I" and not "you", Ms Ally then has the choice to take this on board as a criticism, or not. She is more likely to hear what you have to say and to really listen.

Marg

specifically...this advice from Marg to use the "I" and not "you" statements...

So I gritted my teeth and said:

"When I hear statements implying that I am not loving toward my daughter, it really hurts my feelings."

And Ms Ally apologized! She agreed that not everyone shares the same kissy-huggy demonstrative style of affection that she uses in her household.



So a very good session today....

Thank you all for such great advice!

 

[AnnieO]

Geez. If she's just doing what she is told by people that haven't met you and difficult child... Whew.

What IS it with the authorities/powers that be, that they know best - no matter who does what when where and how?

 

[DaisyFace]

Geez. If she's just doing what she is told by people that haven't met you and difficult child... Whew.

What IS it with the authorities/powers that be, that they know best - no matter who does what when where and how?

Yes, I guess that it the MST system. The workers are assigned to start with the basics: Parenting 101, Behavior Charts, Role of the Parent/Role of the Child, Improve Family Dynamics, Improve Communication and Voila! Everything is better now.

Then, workers report back to the supervisor - who makes suggestions on which thing to implement next. They get the workers all excited about this method or that method so the worker arrives at your house all "pumped up" with positive thinking and "Here's what we're gonna do!"....and then if it doesn't go the way the supervisor predicted - the workers have to document that in their report and have another meeting with the expert. So if it's not the right approach - it creates a lot more work for the MST worker.

 

[AnnieO]

I almost feel sorry for Ms. Ally... But... She wanted to get into this. People don't just get hired to do this because it's the only job out there.

 

[DaisyFace]

I almost feel sorry for Ms. Ally... But... She wanted to get into this. People don't just get hired to do this because it's the only job out there.

Yes, me too! LOL! We are definitely not going to be one of her "easy" cases by a long shot!

But, I am encouraged that the expert seems to have her sniffing down the "let's find some alternative solutions for a non-typical case" path.

 

[DammitJanet]

Well...whew.

Actually I was watching an old episode of Dr Phil the other night and I thought of your dtr. I was sitting in my bed in a fit of giggles thinking of a behavior contract for you:

difficult child will decrease her sexual acting out with strangers from 5 times a week to 2 times a week for the next 6 weeks. By doing this, Mom and Dad will give her hugs on the other 5 days to compensate for the lack of attention from strangers.

 

[klmno]

Not that the situation with your daughter is funny, DF, but I couldn't help of the thought of that contract!

 

[DaisyFace]

Actually I was watching an old episode of Dr Phil the other night and I thought of your dtr. I was sitting in my bed in a fit of giggles thinking of a behavior contract for you:

difficult child will decrease her sexual acting out with strangers from 5 times a week to 2 times a week for the next 6 weeks. By doing this, Mom and Dad will give her hugs on the other 5 days to compensate for the lack of attention from strangers.

ROFLMAO!!!

(Course, it's only funny until we actually get assigned that particular chart....and at this point, it seems anything is possible.)