U.S. Ranked One of the Worst Places in the Developed World to Have Kids

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HaoZi

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Contraceptives are readily available in this country. And they're FREE. Walk into any Planned Parenthood clinic or any health dept.

Not if the current govt has its way, and not around here. Health dept here? Don't make me laugh. They do reduced rate vaccines and that's about it. Planned Parenthood doesn't even have a presence in this county, and the closest one has a long wait for appointments.

Illegal immigrants can get better, faster care here than our own working poor, especially those that make just enough to not qualify for any kind of help but not enough to even consider being able to get health care on what they make.

It is a broken system no matter how you cut it. Whatever your thoughts on the statistics and who made them, there is no denying the system needs serious work.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Um, what Hound Dog said. I have Medicaid. My entire family does. We don't pay for anythng, not even dental. If you make enough money, you can afford services and fortunately can pick and choose your own doctors. The sad fact is, many of our poor are also drug addicts. My precious son whom we adopted (Sonic) was born to a drug addict. She had no prenatal care and used no birth control. It had nothing to do with the availability. It had to do with the fact that she was too busy craving her drugs to think about either. She had also been in rehab, on the taxpayer's dime, elevin time and had walked out eleven times. One can lead a horse to water...like I said, we have so many different cultures and mindset here that it is impossible to compare us to Finland, Norway, France, Australia, etc. The degree of diversity doesn't exist in any other country. If my lovely daughter Jumper (black/white) or Sonic (dark AFrican American) lived in Finland or Australia, he'd be extremely different. Plus he has autism. Every time I read one of Malka's psots about her sweet little boy who is hyperactive, I cringe thinking about how Sonic would be treated in a society that does not accept differences. Would they be a better place for MY kids to grow up? I don't think so. My kids have great lives.

I believe Sweden and France both have huge alcohol problems due to their cultures (drink early, drink often). I could be wrong. The highest suicide rate used to be Japan, not sure if it still is. These ARE their children. I don't care how much this group has seen. They have their cultural biases. As I said, my hub has been on every continent except for Australia. He strongly believes that this is the best country in the world. I know him. He's not some academic that I've never met with ideology.

I do not think we are "backwards." Instead we are free to teach our children with our own morals and values and they can choose to listen or not listen to us. Just like kids can choose to listen or not listen to what Sex Ed is taught in schools. And many don't listen to either. I do feel we lag behind in some social areas, but for the sake of not offending anybody, I'm not going to list them. The fact is, Europeans and and academics favor socialism. I'm not for or against it, but it's a different system and one that is going to think more government is good, less is bad.

I prefer that the government help only when necessary and otherwise stay the hello out of my life. by the way, we do get those services and hub and I are the working poor. Each state is different.

PS--If my daughter and her boyfriend wanted to get free condoms, there is no lack of organizations ready to hand them out. I don't believe that our c hildren's quality of life is seriously all about whether or not schools can hand out condoms...there is soooooo much more to it than that.

The world is a troubled place these days. See Greece.
 
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HaoZi

Guest
I'm the working poor, too. My income last year was just under five digits. I have to pay sliding scale for my state medical coverage, which is very limited in scope and won't cover any dental or vision stuff (I have very poor eyesight). That varies by state thing makes a huge difference. Here for an adult (not disabled) to qualify for regular medicaid for a family of two, the income limit per month is $219. Yes, you read that correctly, make $220 or more in a family of two and the adults "make enough money to buy their own insurance or care." The number of docs of any stripe that accept our coverage in our area is slim, and driving all over the place for better ones is (again) simply not in the budget for us. County health care is a joke, and it's a very conservative area that pushes abstinence over birth control. My insurance won't cover it, and it's not given out free here. (Not really a concern for me at the moment personally, but the lack of availability bothers me a lot).

Location and local politics matter a lot when it comes to what is available and to whom - and it shouldn't. I would love to see the people who create these policies try living on my budget with my challenges. They take much needed money from the schools, and yet spend way too much on silly-looking "art" (I use that term loosely) and other things we could do without just fine. Redecorating public offices (I'm not talking structural stuff that is needed or even basic repaints, I'm talking serious expensive redecorative stuff) should rank below education and health, but it doesn't. I can sit in a cheap chair and stare at a blank wall if it means my kid has text books without obvious factual errors and access to docs that I don't have to educate on her condition.

ETA: That per month limit is gross, by the way. Before taxes, before bills, just flat out how much you make, no allowances given for it at all. Yeah, I was floored when I learned that, too.
 
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HaoZi

Guest
I got away from own main point there, which was basically to point out that with such obvious disparities and differences in our own systems nationwide, applying flat numbers to compare to other nations gives no clear picture of the realities. I'm sure the same is true of other countries to various degrees.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This is quickly turning into a political discussion but I see both sides. I think we live in a great country but it is ridiculous to say there aren't problems that need to be addressed.

Houndog and MWM ~ you must live in states with liberal assistance programs. I have often been amazed at the assistance Hounddog mentions that she and her children have received. Here in the southern state that I live in, there is very little aid available. I just checked the GA medicaid requirements for my difficult child. She would have to make less than $235 a week to be eligible for medicaid. Even a 30 hour week at $8 an hour would put her over the limit. So she would be making $960 a month (before taxes) but expected to pay for expensive private medical insurance (that won't even look at her because of her medical history) and pay for food and housing. She has also been told it would be very hard to qualify for food stamps as an individual in Georgia.

I agree with one of the other posters that health care should not depend on what state you live in or how much you make. I'll just leave it at that.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying there aren't problems.

I'm saying that comparing us to, say,Norway, which has as many people as Chicago, is plain apples and oranges. We have 50 states, all different and ten times the population. We are diverse in thought, religion, culture and in every other way. It's like saying, "The small town of Smith, population 1500, is superior to Chicago, because there have been no murders in twenty years." Smith is like the town I live in now. And their HAVEN'T been any murders in twenty years. Now it COULD be because there are only 1500 people here and town attracts mostly hardworking folks who don't break the law, whereas Chicago has millions of people of all types. The quality of life in my opinion is better in Smith than Chicago as far as schooling, safety, and housing. However, Chicago offers many things that Smith does not, although there IS a high crime rate. The US is unique from other developed countries. It is harder, say, to implement an all-encompassing healthcare program when there are so many people. Besides many American fighting against it, there are so many Americans, period. There is just no fair way to judge the US against small non-diverse countries. We all have our good and bad points. As for where a child fares best...depends on the child.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
And I thought MY blood pressure was threw the roof last night when I logged off! LOL.

I cannot stand anyone bashing the US because I have noticed that the folks who do that have never had any family who fought to keep this country free and let people bash it. You do have to take somethings with a grain of salt because in some places if you dont say the party line people will be arrested. Not here. You can thank some of our fathers, sons, and daughters now.

Kathy, states have differing options for medicaid. I am surprised your daughter would be eligible at all at her age. That might be something coming out of Obama's healthcare program. It used to cut off at 21. Or it could be a GA program on its own. NC is cut off at 21 unless it changed. NY has its own completely different program that is much better but then they are a huge population that would be very difficult to serve if there was no healthcare system in place. MA has already put in a type of universal health care that seems to be working.

I do know that in NC the income limits for Medicaid for Pregnant Woman is fairly liberal. If a person or couple chooses to not have insurance and gets pregnant when they have an income well over the income for Medicaid for Pregnant Women, I am not sure if that should be blamed on the government. We are not talking about low income people then. I think that would be personal responsibility.

But I am not sure any of this is a Medicaid or Head Start or Pre-School or even birth control issue. Anyone who wants that can get it. I actually called my health department one day not long ago because someone said something on here about not being able to get birth control anyone. You might not be able to walk in and just demand the pill without seeing a doctor but you can make an appointment, see a doctor there and they will see you. For free. You can also walk in anytime and get a bag full of condoms just for the asking. For free. Most of the birth control pills are on the tier one in my insurance formulary. I checked. Im sure that means you could at least one or two on the 4 buck Walmart plan. Or just use condoms...best way anyway for STDs.

Anyway, I am with midwestmom on this one. This country may not be perfect but it is the best thing around.

 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Janet, I am sure many who have not checked in feel the same way. I've put up with hearing people from other countries bashing us ad-nauseum and I'm not going to do it anymore. Things are tough EVERYWHERE now...and it's easy for other countries to bash us when they dont' understand that we are like five countries in one country. I'm sorry...Norway, for example, is a blue eyed, blond country and my kids would not have a better life living there. Sonic needs to live somewhere that is both understanding of autism, helpful toward it, and where people are used to seeing black people.

And UNICEF is notoriously anti-US, anti-Israel and pro everything else. I don't CARE what they think.

Lots of our loved ones fought to give other Americans the right to trash our country. My husband served for ten years.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
MWM...dont even get me started on UNICEF. I used to T or T for them until I learned about them. Then I became furious that I had been duped.
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
I've been following the thread with interest. I can see just about everyone's point of view on this one. Having been on the receiving end of welfare, I know how difficult it can be and how shameful it can feel when you have no alternative but to take advantage of what some call a 'handout'.

Being on the other end of the spectrum these days, I feel fortunate that I have a job, can insure my daughters' health, I was able to help easy child attend college, we have enough to eat, we have great medical care, and still have some left $$ over to share with others.

Despite the varying degrees of welfare programs state to state, I still thank god I live in the US. When I'm fed up with our government (which is often and the particular party is of no consequence), just like everyone else, I threaten to leave. But the truth is, I still feel fortunate that I was born American and I still believe that each of us can make a life for ourselves, despite our origins. And I still believe that I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world.

Back before there were organized school districts, all children were home schooled....think about that a minute. There is nothing stopping any parent from educating their child outside of what their schools teach them. Educating and providing for our children is not a governmental responsibility, in my opinion, it is a parental responsibility. Likewise with ensuring our child's immediate safety, health, etc. If your district isn't doing enough, isn't exposing your child to enough culture/arts/literature, diversity, etc., make it happen, do it at home, visit libraries and museums. I'm so tired of hearing the cry that our schools are not teaching our kids. When my kids' schools neglected to cover ANY black history - I taught it to them...I sought out materials and taught them myself. When our schools neglected to teach our children about the Vietnam war - I taught it to them. When they weren't teaching organized vocabulary and spelling - I taught it to them. I hate that so many people have shifted all the basic responsibilities of raising children onto our government and that's what I'm hearing from everyone everywhere.

If we don't want the government in our business, then start taking back personal responsibility for yourself and your families - maybe then we'll achieve better ratings on silly surveys like this one. I don't like these kinds of surveys because it is impossible to capture all relevant data across the country. There are so many pockets of poverty and wealth and that can skew the date immensely.
 
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DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Amen H&R. I wasnt happy when my boys went to elementary school years ago and it was Pearl Harbor Day. I had been teaching them for about a week or so about how important this day was to America and what it meant. I fully expected that the school would cover it and talk about it so I wanted them to be able to discuss it with some real knowledge. They came home...and nothing. No mention of the date at all. I was floored. I did go up to the school and asked why and was told that it wasnt even covered until the kids got to US History. I thought the school was missing a huge chance to teach kids important history every year but oh well. I taught my own kids. Why do I teach my own kids what I think is important? I guess because I was taught what my parents felt was important. I think thats what we all do.

I grew up in VA and MA. I learned all about early revolutionary history. I couldnt help it. I was surrounded. Jamestown, Boston, Pilgrim's, Paul Revere, and so much about WWII. I had 5 members of my immediate family who served in WWII and survived to tell me about it...including my father. Pearl Harbor wasnt just any day to me, it was a day that changed everything for me. And now it has changed even more. Fitting really. It is the day my father was buried.
 

Hound dog

Nana's are Beautiful
I wasn't really intending to get political in the sense of bashing anyone. US included. Oh yeah, we have our own problems here, to be sure, no one is denying that. As do the countries at the top of this list.

But you can't compare us to other countries. They're not set up the same govt wise or population wise, both in volume and diversity, let alone culture wise. It's like comparing apples to potatoes.

You can slant these things to show anything you want, it depends on what you chose to look at and what questions you're asking. The only "good" I can see they provide is a chance to let you have a glimpse at how something is done in another country and to contemplate if it would benefit yours.

Personally, I'd like to have the govt out of my business as much as possible, and I certainly wouldn't want to pay the outrageous taxes in some of those countries.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Janet and Hound Dog. I also wouldn't want unions being able to control everything and shut things down and people who don't do well at work being unabled to be fired and my kids learning that if they don't want to work hard, well, they can just get money for free or have a baby and the government will kiss them good-night. I agree that our government, our people, our makeup is too one-of-a-kind to compare us to any other countries. If somebody wants to move to (forgot what was first on the list) That Country, let 'em.

I think individual achievement is good for my kids. Choices in schooling are good for my kids (including the ability to homeschool with no government interference). Freedom of religion is good for my kids. Freedom of speech is good for my kids. A superior understanding of difficult child's in the US (not perfect, but in my opinion superior to most countries) is VERY good for my autistic son. In another country he would probably be passed off as ADHD and not given much help and would never have achieved as well as he has. And I believe only the US has Special Olympics, although I'm not sure. The US has been kind to all of my kids.

Janet, I refuse to ever give one penny to UNICEF. Ever. Ever, ever, never.
 

flutterby

Fly away!
Really, Janet? Unless you or a family member has served in the military fighting a war that most of the country wants to end you can't say anything about your country? That's bull**** and you know it. I respect and admire our troops and I was raised to love my country, but I don't close my eyes to the realities of the world we live in today.

A goes to Planned Parenthood for bc. Working 20 hours a week at minimum wage her bc was not free. It was reduced, but not free as another implied that all bc is. Current legislation in the works - and literally hundreds of bills introduced this year alone - would wipe out Planned Parenthood, and in some cases, contraception, altogether.

What I get sick of is not so much the idea that we are best, but the blind eye to what is real based on what might happen in your little community or what you think happens based on who knows what.
 

flutterby

Fly away!
What gets me is that not so very long ago we had a thread on here with people complaining of others getting services in this country, they didn't feel they were entitled to. Now all of a sudden, it's available to everyone.

For the record, I didn't have health insurance when I got pregnant with difficult child and made too much for medicaid ($9.50 an hour, 17 years ago), and OB/GYN's wanted a minumum of $6,000 up front. You could make payments, but they wouldn't even see you until they had half.
 

klmno

Active Member
Ladies, everyone- please keep in mind that states have a lot of law-making authority and these health related services vary GREATLY from state to state and local jurisdiction to local jurisdiction.

I do get the point each side is making here and there is validity on both sides. It pains me when I hear other stories about parents not getting any more help from a sd or juvie court system than I got for my difficult child, but it pains me to hear how in another jurisdiction, some of this stuff is almost handed out. (It doesn't pain me because a warrior mom got this, it pains me because my difficult child didn't have the chance.) This is because the fed government in this country doesn't make ALL the laws and regulations for every person in this country. So please, let's separate our feelings for our country from our feelings for availability in our local jurisdictions. If people wanted the availability to be equal in all jurisdictions, then it would have to be federal law, not local/state governed.
 

flutterby

Fly away!
Janet's comment just has me stewing. For the record, Janet, my grandfather survived Pearl Harbor and went on to fight in WWII. Pearl Harbor Day is a big deal in my family.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I didnt say that unless you have someone who have served in the military you cant say anything, I said most often you will find that people who want to spout stuff about how horrible how government is or our country is are people who have never had anyone in their family who have fought for right of free speech. Thats my opinion. I have found that often to be the case.

I should have shut this thread down days ago. Its become way too political and feelings are going to be hurt so I am going to lock it.
 
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