Ugly night again over the computer zgfg tried to run

[StressedM0mma]

And the only reason we didn't let her is because easy child was trying to sleep. We didn't want the police to keep her awake. But, husband and I decided that we are done. If she tries again we will not be stopping her. We are so done with her and all of this. She obviously does not want to get better. And if that is the case, why should we bother spending all of this time and money trying to help her? I am just so angry and disappointed. I know this is going to be a long battle, and expect problems, but I hate all of the conflict and drama. I just want some peace in my house.

 

[buddy]

I would be so mad too. Especially because now you really are walking on egg shells with TWO...one will move out if things dont change and the other is ill and needing to change and explodes.

But one thing that keeps popping up is that she has only been in treatment for a short time and as you said it will take a long time. She has made lots of improvements and while this could be total manipulation, IF she really did think you had changed the rule back to 11 and she is locked in on that she is showing a real skill deficit and you have shared with us that she has had problems for her whole life, though they have been milder at times. I really wonder if she has some mild learning issues that have been missed. She is not flexible in her thinking, she misinterprets things, she is so rigid in her mind set.... (even if you had changed the rule to 11 she still stayed past that deadline, it is too early to give her any chances, darn I hate learning lessons the hard way and I do it all the time)..... Two weeks for even simple depression is just not enough time for even medications to start to work. I think the OP is rushing her thru this. I hope you let them know of her attempt to run asap so they can consider a longer stay. Sounds like if they really are a DBT program they are not following it... I never heard of that being one of the short term kinds of therapies.

These people need to be more communicative and supportive to you guys as a family. Have you had any family therapy with them, I forgot. I know you are frustrated that they dont meet with you alone too. I love that you called for a transition meeting....maybe you need to call for a case management meeting in general. People need to start getting how impaired she is. She is maybe not able to want to do better yet. (though she has done some good things so I doubt it is desire, I imagine it is really that she is still sick and does not have the skills yet to do better)...just MHO.

(to be clear I am not criticizing you.... Just yesterday I was ready for the Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) person to keep Q for a week -lol not an option-- because he was so "mean" to me and it did feel very deliberate though I do know what was really driving it all)

 

[slsh]

Sorry she's giving you such troubles right now.

A thought - since the computer seems to be a trigger (at least superficially), what would happen if you let her have it again tonight, with the warning that it *will* be turned back over at X:00 p.m., and any argument or drama over it will result in it having to be turned back over an hour earlier tomorrow night and for the next week? Her choice - no drama and she continues to keep it until X:00, or drama and her time will be cut back. She is the one in control of it.

My initial thought was to remove the computer entirely (might be easier for you guys), but I think she's old enough to put the responsibility on her shoulders.

As far as the sleeping issues... I know it's frustrating and maddening, especially since she claims it works for her. She's probably not at a point where she can see how this is so NOT working for her. Like eating, we can't force our kids to sleep, but I think you do have to keep encouraging healthy sleep hygiene. Stay in room past X:00, read, music, whatever. I'm sure you've done this already, but ... I think you have to keep on keeping on with- it. Hopefully as her depression is treated, she will be more receptive. I don't think it's that she doesn't want to get better - depression is just such a horrible vicious cycle that once you're in the very darkest depths of it, it is *really* difficult to climb back out. It will take time.

I agree with- not trying to stop her from bolting. Let her know up front what the consequences will be, and again put it on her shoulders.

What are you doing to take care of you right now? You are really in the trenches, but you have got to remember to recharge your own batteries so that you can keep on dealing with- this.

Gentle hugs to you.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Computer rules... harder to put in place NOW, but... the recommendations are:
1) NO technology in the bedroom. PERIOD. No... tv, computer, cell phone....... (yes I'm serious)
2) All computer use is in public space - where anyone can walk by and check on you.
3) All technology gets shut off 1 hour before bedtime

Having gone down the road of allowing misuse of technology, its harder to turn back the clock...

 

[TerryJ2]

Sigh. Sounds familiar.
We have never let our difficult child have a computer in his own room. He's just way too Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) about it and would never sleep.
Best of luck!

 

[StressedM0mma]

Thank you all for the support. I am just about to give up. I have never felt so defeated before in my life. I am holding strong until my therapist appointment on friday.

 

[buddy]

Good for you. Hope the family meeting goes ok (I think I read that in your other post, maybe I am behind...sorry)

You have lots of cheer leaders! hang in there....

 

[TeDo]

She is not flexible in her thinking, she misinterprets things, she is so rigid in her mind set.... (even if you had changed the rule to 11 she still stayed past that deadline, it is too early to give her any chances, darn I hate learning lessons the hard way and I do it all the time ......... She is maybe not able to want to do better yet. (though she has done some good things so I doubt it is desire, I imagine it is really that she is still sick and does not have the skills yet to do better)...just MHO.

I was thinking the same thing. I really think there is more going on than simple depression. It really does seem like she is STUCK in her thinking. She was just diagnosed with the depression a couple months ago. What if..... the Celexa is working to alleviate the depression but now you're seeing some of the stuff that was causing the depression in the first place. Now you are seeing the REAL problem that was being masked by the depression.

Here's a very interesting analogy from the book What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You: "I believe that the primary cause of highly explosive behavior in children.....is what I refer to as road map meltdowns. Explosive children are prone to make assumptions about what is going to happen in the near future. These assumptions - their mental road maps of the future - can be like little 'movies' of what they think is going to happen next. Road maps get elevated in their minds to the status of 100 percent certain, totally gonna happen probabilities. When what the child believes is about to happen does not come to pass, his road map disintegrates. Parents who say that their child behaves as if his world has ended......do not understand just how right they are. When a child's road map does not come true, his world does cease to exist for a few moments. The resulting dramatic tantrum shows us how overwhelmed some children can become when faced with anything unexpected." An in many cases, as explained to be by our neuropsychologist, the resulting level of anxiety over this type of situation can become the overriding factor in how the child responds to the situation.

Sorry this got to be long but I wanted to give you another perspective. I really think you need to figure out what's really going on and why she's so stuck.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Thanks TeDo. That makes a lot of sense. And it does seem sowmewhat like her. She also cannot make simple decisions like which store to go to first to look for something. Or which restaurant to choose. I know she has anxiety, but to what level not sure. I just wish someone would look at what we are going through and give some real help instead of critcizing what we have done in the past. Or how we failed her.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Stressed... I think you need to assume there is MUCH more going on than just depression and anxiety. Those to MH issues are frequently secondary - brought on by other problems not being dealt with. In which case, you will not make any progress in dealing with the depression and anxiety... until you find and start dealing with the real issues.

i.e....... comprehensive evaluation, including Occupational Therapist (OT) (sensory and motor) AND Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (especially fringe APDs like auditory figure ground).

 

[TeDo]

You REALLY need to have her thoroughly evaluated by a neuropsychologist!! Any luck finding one? I really hate punishing a kid for making bad choices when there is a REASON they are not being logical because they CAN'T. That's like blaming someone with cardiac issues for having a heart attack. That would depress anyone.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Not yet. I have asked around, but no on e has answered us yet.

 

[Methuselah]

Stressed, I am sorry your family is going through this.

I'm pretty sure if you go into the admin account on your computer, you can set a lock down period. We did that with our family computer. It automatically shut down between 10pm and 6 am every night and could only be unlocked with the admin's password.

 

[susiestar]

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but how sophisticated is she with the computer? By age 12 or so, Wiz was able to hack most net nannies and firewall systems. The user account setting/admin stuff did NOTHING to stop him. Well, at one point he locked ME out of the computer "to show me how it felt and how stupid I was". He didn't like the consequences of that as he lost ALL electronics except listening to his gpa read books on cassette (cause that calmed him down better than valium did - we tried valium at one point per doctor's orders and it wasn't anywhere near as effective as those audiobooks my dad made, lol).

I think you NEED to set the computer to turn off at ten pm, but you also need to monitor to make sure she cannot get around it. Once Wiz tipped his hand and we knew he could do that, we put physical barriers into place also because he didn't maneuver around those nearly as easily. Instead he went to school and hacked their protections. He didn't like their consequences either.

 

[StressedM0mma]

Susie you hit on it completely. She can hack all of that. That is part of the problem. She is super super smart. And right now she is using it for evil instead of good.! Sigh.

 

[AnnieO]

Take the cord... All I can say. Better yet, take the network cable.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Take the cord??? No way. You take the whole doggone computer, and she doesn't get ANY time on that.
She's addicted.


THEN, you set up a general use computer in the kitchen or dining room or other visible spot.
Pre-locked down by the store's tech department - locked down so far that even YOU can't get in there.
And then physically locked down to the stand, so it can't wander away.
And then... this is ONLY for homework. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING else.

And yes, you will need your flame-proof suit on.
It can take WEEKS to get past the withdrawal symptoms.
But she has to re-connect with real people, in the real world.

 

[StressedM0mma]

One of the many other issues, is that we do not make easy child follow the same rules. She is responsible and trust worthy, so why should she be punished for th ebehavior of her difficult child sister. My suit is ripped and torn at this point. I wish there was someplace she could go when we need a break from her. I would love for her to go to a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and see what strict rules are. But that will never happen. Our county has no $ to help us.

 

[buddy]

She ripped your clothes??? HOLY cow, can you call the php NOW??? let them know you are desperate. That she is in no way shape or form ready to be discharged and you need to know where she can go that insurance will pay for if she can't stay there. Tell them about how she ran and how she tore your clothes (if that is not an expression that I dont know about, lol)

She is a mess. She needs so much help and a two week distraction is only a start to get medications started but no way shape or form can be considered therapy. IT takes a long time to start and use new behaviors. She doesn't even recognize the aberrant behaviors yet! she sounds more and more learning disabled in some form.... there are some serious skill deficits going on.

I really know the wanting NOT to do the hard thing (yet the right thing) because in the end it means that I may have to face a blow up and especially I hate it when it gets physical (thank heaven less and less lately). But I am SOOO happy for HIM when I do it. I know I have made his world better to make those hard decisions and to go through the process. I think if you let easy child in on the fact that you are going to once and for all (no half hour here or 15 minutes there... she needs a safe, comfortable routine, and it will become that eventually) and explain to her that you know it will cause a couple of nights of upset until she is used to it. Offer for her to stay at her friends/neighbors for those few days till the new rule is settled into.

Then easy child knows you are considering her feelings and that you want her home but you are willing to protect her in the tough times.

I hope you dont think I am being hard on you. YOu just asked or ideas so I am offering a brain storm... others can point out the flaws in my thinking. FOr now I would not offer any earning back anything... it is too soon. for now she needs that safe secure routine. If she had cancer you would never ever risk her getting so exhausted. School would be way back on the burner. Maybe you need to remind of that... that she is ill right now and it is your job as an excellent mom and dad to take care of her and follow dr. directions to keep her healthy.

This is a long term mental health issue and she is plenty young enough to make up school credits etc. This health thing, along with finding out what else is under all of this is really important. You think she is stressed now??? Imagine if this all would happen when she is in college and no one to advocate for her or to help sort thru if she needs supports thru the disability division of the school. She needs to learn to calm, problem solve etc. or she is simply may not even be able to leave home and be successful. You have mentioned several positive things along the way. I still believe your wonderful daughter is in there... probably with more hope than many of our kids. BUT she is far from healthy now and this could be a big chance to turn this around.

 

[InsaneCdn]

One of the many other issues, is that we do not make easy child follow the same rules. She is responsible and trust worthy, so why should she be punished for th ebehavior of her difficult child sister.

Ummm...
When difficult child was at his most extreme GFGness... almost-easy child followed the exact same rules. She understood.
However. the rules were written fairly.
Only public easy child time for EVERYBODY (including me).
Time limits, etc. - for EVERYBODY.
If you did X, Y and Z, you could get extra computer time.
If you didn't choose to do X, Y AND Z... you didn't.
SO... almost-easy child did, and difficult child did not.
And it was still the same rules.

THINK about what needs to be done. Don't just react.
(that is HARD. I know. been there done that. But you HAVE to get past reacting)