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General Parenting
Using reward/punishment to 'untangle' diagnoses from learned behavior?
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<blockquote data-quote="Allan-Matlem" data-source="post: 369746" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Hi,</p><p>Andy - It was another poster who talked about charts. I agree as Stuart Ablon from <a href="http://thinkkids.org" target="_blank">http://thinkkids.org</a> says that rewards etc' can make a kid look good ' but it does not teach skills and as Alfie Kohn it does not make kids commited to the values you are teaching just motivated to get rewards. In fact there is research showing that rewards actualy cause more anxiety amd cause inappropriate behavior. Most consequences which are imposed are neither logical ( maybe to the teacher ) or natural. A natural consequence is like wasting time and missing the bus so you need to wait for the next bus. You will take the next bus and go on your journey , nobody is consequencing you.</p><p></p><p>There is a place for rewards when it is ' self determined ' . Alfie Kohn's work is based a lot on Deci and Ryan. We need to choose goals and more important enjoy the process of getting there . We may find that the extrinsic motivation of the goal is not enough so we may decide to find something else , like buying a candy for a week's practicing at the piano. Our goal is to become proficient , we enjoy playing , we decide we need some extra motivation. The point is the kid is the author of this , it is not some one trying to manipulate him. Even when the doggie biscuit offered by the teacher is attractive , the effect is only short and causes kids to loose interest in what they are doing and choose easy tasks.</p><p></p><p>The ' different brain ' little guy. - Our greatest tool with kids is conversation , we listening using dialog questions to direct conversation , perspective taking , putting concerns on the table , looking for various alternate solutions , possible obstacles etc . In order to find a solution we need the input from the child , drilling down to get a clear undertanding of his concerns. The good news is the ' brain is like a muscle ' , the more we exercise it , the more we are involved in ' thinking ' , we change the brain. It is important using Carol Dweck's term to show kids that we get places having a ' growth mindset , rather than a fixed mindset. Often our concerns can be viewed as goals and expectations. What goals do our kid have , do they share our expectations of themselves. What's getting in their way , what is their unmet concern or missing skill. Besides working through the checklists of missing skills and unsolved problems - see the CPS sites for the paper work , start to prioritize problems and start working on the them collaborating rather than doing to your child. It is not a technique but a process and takes many CPS moments to acquire skills and trust the process.</p><p>That is why I recommend chatting about general stuff , taking perspectives , noticing concerns and suggesting solutions.</p><p></p><p>I recommend evaluations and labels just to get the accomodations and resources for your child. We have to show schools that children do well if they can and that a only a trusting relationship between teacher an kid can facilitate progress. The book ' lost at school ' and the links are good resources</p><p></p><p>I hope this helps</p><p></p><p>Allan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Allan-Matlem, post: 369746, member: 10"] Hi, Andy - It was another poster who talked about charts. I agree as Stuart Ablon from [url]http://thinkkids.org[/url] says that rewards etc' can make a kid look good ' but it does not teach skills and as Alfie Kohn it does not make kids commited to the values you are teaching just motivated to get rewards. In fact there is research showing that rewards actualy cause more anxiety amd cause inappropriate behavior. Most consequences which are imposed are neither logical ( maybe to the teacher ) or natural. A natural consequence is like wasting time and missing the bus so you need to wait for the next bus. You will take the next bus and go on your journey , nobody is consequencing you. There is a place for rewards when it is ' self determined ' . Alfie Kohn's work is based a lot on Deci and Ryan. We need to choose goals and more important enjoy the process of getting there . We may find that the extrinsic motivation of the goal is not enough so we may decide to find something else , like buying a candy for a week's practicing at the piano. Our goal is to become proficient , we enjoy playing , we decide we need some extra motivation. The point is the kid is the author of this , it is not some one trying to manipulate him. Even when the doggie biscuit offered by the teacher is attractive , the effect is only short and causes kids to loose interest in what they are doing and choose easy tasks. The ' different brain ' little guy. - Our greatest tool with kids is conversation , we listening using dialog questions to direct conversation , perspective taking , putting concerns on the table , looking for various alternate solutions , possible obstacles etc . In order to find a solution we need the input from the child , drilling down to get a clear undertanding of his concerns. The good news is the ' brain is like a muscle ' , the more we exercise it , the more we are involved in ' thinking ' , we change the brain. It is important using Carol Dweck's term to show kids that we get places having a ' growth mindset , rather than a fixed mindset. Often our concerns can be viewed as goals and expectations. What goals do our kid have , do they share our expectations of themselves. What's getting in their way , what is their unmet concern or missing skill. Besides working through the checklists of missing skills and unsolved problems - see the CPS sites for the paper work , start to prioritize problems and start working on the them collaborating rather than doing to your child. It is not a technique but a process and takes many CPS moments to acquire skills and trust the process. That is why I recommend chatting about general stuff , taking perspectives , noticing concerns and suggesting solutions. I recommend evaluations and labels just to get the accomodations and resources for your child. We have to show schools that children do well if they can and that a only a trusting relationship between teacher an kid can facilitate progress. The book ' lost at school ' and the links are good resources I hope this helps Allan [/QUOTE]
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