venting about my legal system...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Nancy423, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    just talked to the arresting officer. My difficult child was charged with aggravated battery (a felony as opposed to battery which is a misdermeaner) and the funny part is, it's aggravated because there was "serious bodily harm".(ahem, A BITE IS SERIOUS HARM???AND SHE ONLY BIT BECAUSE THIS LADY WAS RESTRAINING HER!) OMG.

    Aparantly the teacher who signed the complaint also had called the officer. She's angry at how the school handled the whole situation. Glad we can be on the same page as her. (but I'm sure we'd disagree on exactly how they were wrong). Neither of us has gotten ANY paperwork on this whole situation.

    AND it appears that the county may have deferred charges (without our permission) which is why we have to see this probation officer!! And during the conversation with- the officer, it seems that these POs are extremely busy and if I call on Monday, it may take me DAYS to talk to him. I also haven't heard from the 2 lawyers I contacted!!! (which by the way, are the ONLY 2 in the north part of the state who handle Special Education juvenile criminal charges........)

    I guess I can always go to this meeting on Tues and leave stating that I'd like to have representation. I'd be going in pretty "blind" because I have NOTHING related to this case.

    sorry, needed to vent......:whiteflag:
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Vent away!! My son has been involved with the judicial system and on probation for 18 mos now and it is extremely frustrating. FWIW, he's been to court several times and neither the judge or probation officer or police officers have ever asked my permission for anything. Once the legal system is involved, it seems more a situation of parents asking them their permission, not vice versa.
  3. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Holy CR@P
    I would be SO mad.:mad:
    She is only 11!!!!
    And she must have been in a therapeutic setting if she was restrained???? So why would they even call the police?

    So sorry.
  4. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    no she's LDSC and this sub (I was told) is not trained in restraint but was trying to hold her so she wouldn't get hurt (i'm assuming here) From what was described, she's a small woman, probably like 100lbs soaking wet so she may have felt "threatened" by difficult child (who's all of what, 62lbs?)

    the school called the police because they "have to" according to the principal. It's a school rule now that she's in 6th grade. Oh don't get me started on that. The arresting officer said he thinks they did it to get an arrest report so their liability is 0.
  5. Jena

    Jena New Member


    OMG. I am so sorry. How absolutley ridiculous for you and difficult child to have to deal with. Are they kidding 11?????

    Is there anyone besides the dimwits that you will not be able to contact prior to this mtg. someone higher up to go after?? School staff should not be restraining a child unless they are trained to do so. Do you know the particulars yet at all as far as what actually happened in the school?

    I'm so sorry. Sending you hugs.
  6. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    The officer said they've had quite a number of arrests at this school over the years so it's not just her. I have a feeling the precinct isn't overly fond of going over there. but he did say that if one student punches another, it's battery. no questions. If the victim wants to press charges he can. no matter the age. Oh and we might be sued in civil court. I don't know this woman or if she's that upset to file.

    I really don't know if I have the full story or not. I'm kinda hoping the PO can give me something!:anxious: I was told he's now my "go to guy" for info. Just wish one of the darn lawyers would have called me back....guess I'll be on the phone tomorrow morning.
  7. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    Oh my, do you live in my state, in my county? I know here things get very weird and bizarre. My difficult child once was at a dance at a moose-jaycees- elk- something place for middle schoolers and chaperones witnessed a boy harm her....they left difficult child at the dance, and sent police to come tell me she got "battered" but they cold not tell me who did it becuz he was a juvenile and had a "right to privacy" -----
    Another time difficult child was at our theatre, I was next door in a meeting. she was 16. she had my son with her....she was smoking a cig outside, and cops came...asked her her name....(cop was not in uniform, she did not know what was going on) she gave a fake name...flipped the cig and went into theatre. A few mins later, cops in uniform burst into theatre, found her, took her out in handcuffs....took my son with them.....he was like 8 yrs old.....they did send a cop to come tell me they had taken my kids across town to police dept....they charged my difficult child with felony obstruction of justice for giving a false name...they took my son into "protective custody"- had him in a cell alone....I went immediately, they would not release my son to me until they were done processing difficult child.....and they could not process difficult child cuz the computer was down......we were there 9 hours.
    AT court, the judge asked how my difficult child pled, she had a panic attack in court and could not answer....I said not guilty.judge said nope, she WILL plead guilty.and judge ordered a fine and a finding of guilty.
    Approx a year later, difficult child was at a skate park here in thing, police were there, and she got arrested.for drinking. Detectives came to my house, got me, said difficult child had been at skate park, cops had had a pedophile under surveillance..the pedophile was passing out vodka in water bottles to kids- not telling them it was not water-......he handed one to my difficult child.she took a sip, spit it out, and handed it back and walked away......This is what the detectives told me.....then they told me in order to make charges stick on the pedophile, they still had to arest difficult child? HUH? even tho she did not know it was not water, even tho she did not even swallow it, according to the detectives......we got to court, and the judge again refused to accept a not guilty plea, found difficult child guilty and gave her a fine. Yeesh.

    A couple years later- my then 11 yr old a friend accused my 11 yr old and another 11 yr old of playing truth or dare? Ironically, according to detectives it was the "victims" idea to PLAY truth or dare......jokeingly one of the kids said "take off your clothes" as the "dare" and the "victim picked up a blanket, took off her clothes, and then laughed. the other kids said shhh do not laugh......the charges were.....obstruction of justice and sex offense. according to detectives noone forced anyone to do anything, noone even saw anything, noone touched anyone......and the offense happened 6 weeks before the "victim" said a word. Detectives and states attorney here said they handle charges against 11 yr olds in the police dept itself, not in they booked my 11 yr old, fingerprinted him.....and put him on house arrest. after then 16 yr old easy child began driving....was driving here in town.and some weirdo was out around town, throwing raw eggs at moving cars, and following the cars he was egging. He egged the front windsheild of our car while easy child was driving, and it obliterated her view and she almost crashed. He continued egging the car......her passenger called 911 on a cell........cops finally came.....turns out the guy had egged 3 other cars too......
    Police decided that there were no charges to file against the guy doing the egging, even tho they caught the scene, even....the egg ruined the finish on our car..and on the brand new van.(it was a very hot summer nite) becuz the police made all the victims wait at the police dept with their cars while they processed the guy who did it, and the egg baked on all the cars.
    The police refused flat out to go with proerty damage, or vandalism......I was so mad saying it was dangerous.....a moving car and no visibility thru windsheild? Me and 2 of the other victims went to courthouse to try to force it thru, but states attorney would not do so.

    Several years ago one of the classmates of difficult child in her Special Education class decided to target our house for massive vandalism events. he broke several windows, slashed our soft top on jeep multiple times.......3 times in one week.....eggs our freshly painted house while we were out of town, sugared gas tank on our brand new car.....put a dead animal in my SUV....and put used cat litter on my yard swing (it was a week old)
    It dragged thru court over 2 years.......the kid confessed.but it still dragged thru court. He was found guilty, BUT judge refused to order restitution becuz he was a foster child, and judge sent him to juvvie.our ins refused to pay out saying no, the court had to order restitution.

    Currently, I am attending court monthly on charges for a man who has been accused of molesting my easy child and 6 other kids...way back from 99 forward. My easy child and difficult child did actually make the accusation to school personnel way back in 1999 and 2000.....(they never told me) and it came out in court so far that the school dismissed the kids accusations and never called of the other victims said something again in 2004 or 2005? becuz it was ongoing and continuing......and the man was arrested then. (the accused was the father of one of the kids) Well, our lovely court system here? no trial date has been set YET......altho we go to court every single month, sometimes 2 or 3 times. they just keep continuing the case.
    Dec 07 the court even refunded some of the mans bond money back to him! Originally bond had been $865,000. 2006 he was twice rearrested for witness tampering.......and child porn..and then 3 times on drug charges? (Ironically, he is a professional, and a business owner and a church goer)
    well, even tho he had been arrested since his original arrest? In Dec 07 he asked the judge to refund back some of his bond, becuz he just had a new baby! He said (well his lawyer said) look- this man has showed up in court for every court appearance so far....he is not a flight risk......and the judge refunded him back $35,000 CASH. reduced his bail by $350,000!!!!! I was so mad, I was like harumph, I have been here at EVERY court date, TOO...........and I have not been accused of ANYTHING. How come noone is giving ME any $$ ?? I simply do not understand all these continuances.

    I do NOT understand the legal system here AT ALL. it boggles my mind entirely. I do not know why they play hardball with young kids or mentally ill ones or Special Education kids.......I often wonder if it makes them feel like a big shot to pick on the helpless. Grrrrrr. I also wonder if maybe the police and judges etc are maybe AFRAID of the REAL criminals. I dont know, but it sure is maddening.
  8. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    there was another court thing I wanted to tell you about here. (sitting in court for my dts molester and also spent 2 years in probate court, same building, once a had a case where difficult child was a witness, but nothing more, but had to also be in court monthly with HER...grr.....)
    So one day sitting in court watching all the cases go up before judge......
    they bring a youngish lady out from being held in county jail? Mid 20s?
    turns out she was inpatient psychiatric unit......for an evaluation......they took her for an MRI becuz they thought maybe they might find a reason for her symptoms inpatient psychiatric- off for an MRI? Dureing the MRI she panicked, jolted, jumped and tried to flee. She knocked over some person at the hospital ........they were not hurt, but.....they called police anyway.....
    so this patient was arrested for assaulting the hospital person. even tho the patient was a psychiatric unit patient, and even tho hospital had thought it possible her symptoms and behaviors might be able to be explained by MRI.......
    To my horror, the judge found this patient guilty on the spot and ordered her sent to our prison for 2 years! I never did figure that one out at all!
    I worked as a nurse in a dementia unit in a long term care facility. It never occured to me to view any of the aggression etc by my patients as a crime. We accepted that behavior as part of the reason WHY these people were living in our facility in the first place.
  9. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    WHAT???? 11 YEARS OLD???? I second Steely's thought: "HOLY CR*P"!!!!! That is absolutely ridiculous!!! I am so angry for you. Did the school really need the police? I am going to assume that the school is aware of your daughter's issues so why on earth did they call the cops???? They were better off with the Crisis Team, at least that way she would have been brought to the hospital not the police station!!!! Oh, Nancy that stinks big time, I am so sorry you have to go through this. It sounds so obsurd!!!

    Good luck, let us know what happens.

  10. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    HOLY SHISH K BOB dreamer!!!! How in the WORLD can a judge dismiss a plea with-o a fair hearing??

    You just can't make up stuff like that. How absolutely HORRIBLE.
  11. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    Aw heck, the school district knows EVERYTHING and I warned the case manager at the end of 5th grade what they were getting into. PLUS I emailed the teachers that morning that they might be in for some action. She had a bad night and that's what I emailed to them (what, do they need a point by point???) thought that would be enough for them to realize that she needs a watchful eye.

    The police refused to call an ambulance when husband requested they call.
  12. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    I'm so sorry......yes we are in same county.
  13. eekysign

    eekysign New Member

    I don't think anyone's afraid of the "real criminals". But the legal system in the US is absolutely unable to handle mentally ill defendants. There just isn't a system in place, in most states, to really address the issues such people present to a court. Definitely something that needs to be DEALT WITH ALREADY....but don't shoot the messenger by blaming the police, judges, and prosecutors. In many situations, there is literally nothing else they can do. Mind you, I'm not talking about POs and garden-variety difficult child problems here. I'm talking about situations like the psychiatric-evaluation assault girl dreamer mentioned. Even in that case, what we see on trial day in court is usually the end result of hours, days, or weeks of work behind-the-scenes. Sometimes things sound unfair, but we don't know the "real deal" that is going down. 2 years in jail, but maybe her lawyer/PD/GAL only agreed to it if she serves in the psychiatric hospital and that's part of the deal you wouldn't hear in court. You never know---but we can all hope so! :)

    I don't like it any more than you guys do, but remember that judges can't just let currently-violent offenders "go", and don't we just KNOW that there aren't enough beds for them in the mental health system anywhere. We can't even get OUR kids the help they need, but we expect the legal system (which is NOT a medical body, and generally has strict LEGAL rules to follow) to be able to handle the mentally ill any better? Boo...they're even less competent to make those calls than SDs! Hehe. :)

    My stepbrother only got help after bouncing through the legal system about 10 times, arrest-sentencing-state hospital-release to voluntary group home-arrest-sentence-state hospital-etc, etc, etc. Finally, he's in a involuntary group home, he's not allowed to leave on his own, and he's monitored closely. That will, unless something drastic happens, never change. But I do understand---it's a very frustrating thing to see. Petition your state/fed delegate/Congressman/woman. But don't blame the legal system itself too much---it's got it's hands tied right now. I don't know a single judge or lawyer who is happy with the way the system works. Just my two cents. :)

    Personally, I vent at society, 'cause we're the real problem. Well, god knows, not US, but everyone else. Hehe.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
  14. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    we may have some good news coming tomorrow....cross your fingers. Talked with- the one attorney a few minutes ago and I think he alleviated my anxiety over all this!
  15. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    eeky....most of the cases I watch I have been following.the psychiatric evaluation girl was in hospital on a fri....sent to county jail from hospital on fri....& sentenced on mon. for over 3 years I have spent 2 and 3 days a week watching waiting for our cases. we have been in shoes off defendant witness & victim. we have worked with prosecutors and lawyers cops victims advocates& judges. I worked in mental health here.....and pcs big sister is a lawyer my neighbor is a judge..... my uncle is a convicted murderer in this county. its often illogical here. things are goofy here. the molestation case with my easy child as a victim the victims advocate finaaly went to judge in dec & said this case has dragged on terribly.....vic adv requested judge bring in a pros from elsewhere cuz our pros had not yet even begun to assemble a case
  16. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    My DS built a "bomb" out of legos when he was in kindergarten and showed it to the kids on the schoolbus...

    The school principal told me that the district's policy was to report any variation of a "bomb threat" to police immediately--and that due to the circumstances, technically a report should be made--but since she felt that the policy flew in the face of common sense in this instance...she would handle it very quietly and not make any "official record" of the infraction.

    We were lucky! Not all school officials feel free to exercise their own good judgment--and instead make police reports whether it is common sense or not.
  17. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I will cross my fingers.........

    And a thought just occurred to me. If you wanted to gain some leverage, and gain some clout to get this case dismissed - technically you could also press charges against the school for allowing the teacher to touch your child, and for refusing to call an ambulance. If that teacher was not trained in restraining a child, and you not have given permission for this to occur, than your child was technically the one that was victimized here, not the teacher. Teachers cannot touch students without parental permission, and training. Period.
  18. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    yes, that was one option we had thought of - but I think the restraint was more because she was trying to defend herself. I'm not sure about calling an ambulance tho - that was the police dept. that refused, not the school.

    The other option I'm holding in hand is putting a story in the newspaper. My neighbor is the editor for the neighborhood section in the local's nice to have plan B's!! i don't know if the story is newsworthy.....

    Ya know, it just occurred to me, maybe the principal doesn't have the option. It might be district policy. When I talked to the lawyer about it, he named the district and made it sound like they're difficult to deal with.
  19. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    steely sometimes u can't get police or states attrny to make the charges against the school. and our school here has been in media eye recently for not calling ambulance even for non difficult child type emergencies & still they don't always call