rebelson
Active Member
Evan, was he an addict? Mentally ill? I know nothing of this story but the horribly sad ending...
Why did she fear he'd be 'taken' from her & put with her brother?
Very sad news about klmno
- Thread starter AnnieO
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Why did she fear he'd be 'taken' from her & put with her brother?
donna723
Well-Known Member
If I'm remembering this right, didn't her brother try to get custody of Evan at one time? And I thought she said that she suspected that the brother had either molested or attempted to molest him in the past? I don't know if this is something that really happened or if she was just afraid that it would happen.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
No. AFAIK, her brother did not molest Evan. The whole thing started because brother kissed Evan on the lips when he was much younger, which she claimed was done in order to "show" her what he could do if he wanted to do.
Speaking as someone who got kissed on the lips many a time by definitely hetero relatives (and didn't like it), that is NOT child molestation. It's a boundaries issue of the child objects and is made to put up with it. In those cases it is disrespectful to the child. My mother put an end to that sort of thing when she saw how upset it made me.
Her whole thing was that brother lived with his SO, and KLMNO didn't want Evan exposed to that lifestyle. She gave a lot of explanations for that, but it boiled down to homophobia for the most part. She was never able to give solid reasons for her fears. It always came back to the "lifestyle".
Speaking as someone who got kissed on the lips many a time by definitely hetero relatives (and didn't like it), that is NOT child molestation. It's a boundaries issue of the child objects and is made to put up with it. In those cases it is disrespectful to the child. My mother put an end to that sort of thing when she saw how upset it made me.
Her whole thing was that brother lived with his SO, and KLMNO didn't want Evan exposed to that lifestyle. She gave a lot of explanations for that, but it boiled down to homophobia for the most part. She was never able to give solid reasons for her fears. It always came back to the "lifestyle".
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Very sad. Maybe that is why she was estranged from family and so alone. I never really knew why she was so alone.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
I don't know why she was so alone. Could've been any number of things, up to and including her own mental illness.
I wouldn't be surprised if, like she did with so many of us here, she cut her family off. So many of us here tried so hard to help her and were shut off, that it wouldn't be surprising if the same happened to in real life friends and relatives.
I wouldn't be surprised if, like she did with so many of us here, she cut her family off. So many of us here tried so hard to help her and were shut off, that it wouldn't be surprising if the same happened to in real life friends and relatives.
You are TOTALLY wrong about her bro. He molested her and a number of other children. He did kiss her son to show what he could do. But only AFTER molesting a number of other children. The police had investigated him more than once but he liked kids who were too young to testify so he was not ever charged. she and I spoke about it on PM several times.
Her name was just alphabet letters with no suicidal significance. Chosen years before her suicide.
She was resistant to therapy, largely as a result of having seen several therapists with no common sense. Sadly it can be INCREDIBLY hard to find a therapist with common sense. Trust me, for every good therapist I have seen, there have been six or eight stupid ones. That doesn't include the idiot psychology professors I have known at four universities.
She was overly enmeshed with her son and he was truly messed up.
Her name was just alphabet letters with no suicidal significance. Chosen years before her suicide.
She was resistant to therapy, largely as a result of having seen several therapists with no common sense. Sadly it can be INCREDIBLY hard to find a therapist with common sense. Trust me, for every good therapist I have seen, there have been six or eight stupid ones. That doesn't include the idiot psychology professors I have known at four universities.
She was overly enmeshed with her son and he was truly messed up.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
Susie, you had a closer relationship with her and she revealed stuff to you that I don't recall her revealing to the board beyond "the kiss".
I do agree that she was overly enmeshed with Evan (putting it mildly) and that Evan was very ill.
I do agree that she was overly enmeshed with Evan (putting it mildly) and that Evan was very ill.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Sadly, emeshment can easily happen when one is very alone with only a child.
Bad therapists are a travesty. They discourage people from searching for good ones...those who truly need help. On the other hand, some patients are difficult and go to therapists with the attitude that they won't really get help.
I did not know Klmno much. I just remember the nightmare story she shared.
Bad therapists are a travesty. They discourage people from searching for good ones...those who truly need help. On the other hand, some patients are difficult and go to therapists with the attitude that they won't really get help.
I did not know Klmno much. I just remember the nightmare story she shared.
donna723
Well-Known Member
If I remember it right, the brother did either make or attempt to make some very inappropriate moves on Evan when he was younger. But I think there was more to it than that. I remember her saying that at one time the brother had either attempted to get custody of Evan or had threatened to do so and she was desperate to prevent that from happening. And although they probably found about it later, after Evan was killed, she never informed her family of his death. And yes, he was an extremely messed up young man. And sending him to that juvenile facility he was in probably only made him worse, not better.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
He was VERY messed up and should've been in residential treatment long before he wound up in juvy, which did nothing to treat his mental illness.
I seem to remember that the brother wanted custody of Evan, but not that it had actually gone legal. On CD, her complaints about her brother seemed to revolve around his lifestyle and that he was dangerous to Evan as a result of that lifestyle.
In actuality, KLMNO's brother was rare in being gay and being a pedophile (if he was). The bulk of pedophiles are heterosexual.
A lot of what led to things going so horribly wrong was that she couldn't work with the agencies/authorities that had control of Evan at various periods of his life. She kept wanting to go in guns a blazing and rescue him. It was a bad scene all around, but given his violence, there wasn't much else to be done.
I seem to remember that the brother wanted custody of Evan, but not that it had actually gone legal. On CD, her complaints about her brother seemed to revolve around his lifestyle and that he was dangerous to Evan as a result of that lifestyle.
In actuality, KLMNO's brother was rare in being gay and being a pedophile (if he was). The bulk of pedophiles are heterosexual.
A lot of what led to things going so horribly wrong was that she couldn't work with the agencies/authorities that had control of Evan at various periods of his life. She kept wanting to go in guns a blazing and rescue him. It was a bad scene all around, but given his violence, there wasn't much else to be done.
witzend
Well-Known Member
If the brother had been investigated for abuse, and the reason that he was not prosecuted was the vulnerability of the witnesses it's highly unlikely that he would have been able to follow through with the threat to take Evan. Sadly, klmno's fragile mental state did not allow for that line of logic. Their's is a study in tragedy.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
There is, in looking back at the whole saga over the years, an epic, Greek tragedy feel to the whole story. Almost as if it were destined to happen.
I remember reading some of her posts and saying, out loud, "No. Don't!" and knowing that to post it was useless. It was such a hopeless situation from the outset. Early on, it was if I could almost see where it could wind up.
I remember reading some of her posts and saying, out loud, "No. Don't!" and knowing that to post it was useless. It was such a hopeless situation from the outset. Early on, it was if I could almost see where it could wind up.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
Rebelson, Evan was not an addict, though wanted to be one. He was just getting into "experimenting" at the time he was killed.
I don't know what was wrong with him except that his thinking was extremely disordered, he was violent, especially as regarded his mother, to the point of pulling a knife on her to get her to give him cigarettes. He did not get the help and interventions he should've gotten when he was much younger, and various issues prevented him getting the right sort of help as an adolescent.
I don't know what was wrong with him except that his thinking was extremely disordered, he was violent, especially as regarded his mother, to the point of pulling a knife on her to get her to give him cigarettes. He did not get the help and interventions he should've gotten when he was much younger, and various issues prevented him getting the right sort of help as an adolescent.
We also don't know the genetics involved, especially with bio-dad, who wasn't in his life.
ThreeShadows
Quid me anxia?
If Angela were still here on Earth, it would break her heart to see that she and her boy are a subject of discussion here.
witzend
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it would. But if discussing her situation in hindsight can help just one of us to take a different path, we should. It's often easier to see our own faults through other's mistakes - you know, those wake up moments when you say, "OMG, I do that, and I need to stop".
We all did our best to help when we could. Those conversations taught me more than anything anyone I personally knew did most of the time. I believe that as much as it would break her heart that we were discussing this, it might warm her heart if someone who didn't know her and Evan and their child gets help because of what is said here. I can't find anything here judgemental or said out of disrespect. It's a cautionary tale.
GoingNorth
Crazy Cat Lady
What might break her heart is the realization that we really did care and still do care,, something she wasn't able to accept in real life.
She was truly sweet and loving but had a hard time for reasons both in and out of her control.
Her mother and brother threatened to sue for custody about every 2-3 years of Evan's life.
She and I private messaged a lot and somehow she seemed to be able to make small adjustments in her reactions after we talked. Small adjustments, not big enough ones to make a long term difference.
A major part of her problems was accepting the irrationality of the systems that got involved in her and E's lives. She kept wanting sane-ish and rational responses from the probation officer (who truly seemed like a nutcase to me), the officer in charge of his indeterminate juvy sentence (in her area, kids put in juvy are there until certain goals are met, but getting anyone to define those goals seemed impossible. the more she asked for concrete goals, the more angry the officer got and the more he refused to give her ANY idea what those goals were.), and the entire system as a whole.
Add that to several therapists who insisted that if she cooked what he wanted for dinner and let him play all the video games he wanted, then E would stop assaulting her and others, stealing and setting fires.
She also had a long period of unemployment because she had to keep leaving work due to E's issues added to the financial strain of restitution for the many things E damaged or set fire to.
It was all just more than she could handle. Esp as her ONLY support was this forum and she felt pressured by many here. She felt very threatened by her family and given her history, I can't say I would feel any different. She was a victim of her bro's molestation, and knew other victims, and was determined to keep E from being his victim.
Some of this is pieced together from her posts and much is from what hse said in PMs.
It was a tragedy waiting to happen, and hopefully both she and E are at peace now.
Her mother and brother threatened to sue for custody about every 2-3 years of Evan's life.
She and I private messaged a lot and somehow she seemed to be able to make small adjustments in her reactions after we talked. Small adjustments, not big enough ones to make a long term difference.
A major part of her problems was accepting the irrationality of the systems that got involved in her and E's lives. She kept wanting sane-ish and rational responses from the probation officer (who truly seemed like a nutcase to me), the officer in charge of his indeterminate juvy sentence (in her area, kids put in juvy are there until certain goals are met, but getting anyone to define those goals seemed impossible. the more she asked for concrete goals, the more angry the officer got and the more he refused to give her ANY idea what those goals were.), and the entire system as a whole.
Add that to several therapists who insisted that if she cooked what he wanted for dinner and let him play all the video games he wanted, then E would stop assaulting her and others, stealing and setting fires.
She also had a long period of unemployment because she had to keep leaving work due to E's issues added to the financial strain of restitution for the many things E damaged or set fire to.
It was all just more than she could handle. Esp as her ONLY support was this forum and she felt pressured by many here. She felt very threatened by her family and given her history, I can't say I would feel any different. She was a victim of her bro's molestation, and knew other victims, and was determined to keep E from being his victim.
Some of this is pieced together from her posts and much is from what hse said in PMs.
It was a tragedy waiting to happen, and hopefully both she and E are at peace now.
