Very Upset

[Mamaof5]

One: No word on that job so I`m assuming that it`s a no go obviously. But that`s not my biggest issue....

There`s been a few red flags lately that I was ignoring thinking, in denial, that I`m just being crazy and paranoid or something.

Husband has been hiding stuff on the computer. Like last night...He was talking to someone on Yahoo from his Yoville friends. I passed by and he quickly minimized the chat and snuck a side glance at me. Did this several times and when he wanted to go downstairs for coffee while I was going to leave the room to do something else I hestitated and wanted to see if he`d leave the computer unattended and leave the room first. He hesitated too and `pretended`to tidy up a little...moving his jacket, picking up a few stray toys and moving them around the room. It`s almost as if he was...waiting for me to leave first.

It`s not the only red flag. I got a feeling a few months back about this one lady on his FB and in IMVU and Yoville. I know all his passwords (maybe wrong of me but when a lady has a gut feeling you just can`t ignore it no matter how much in denial one may be in), I checked on his FB messages and email and there are a lot of sexual innuendos between him and this lady. The first gut feeling was a naked IMVU character picture he actually had the balls to post in his FB photo albums with this chicks character in it (both naked characters, literally banging as it`s said, IMVU is nasty, it`s a virtual chat server with 3D characters and rooms).

Since last night I threw a keylogger on the computers. I`m not happy right now to say the least but I`m not going to accuse of anything until I find out just how far this has gone in the last year since he`s known her and she`s been on his FB. He met her in Yoville on FB. I snooped this morning on his FB pm`s (yes I know, no better than what he`s doing but with 5 kids to think about and possibly needing to save a 13 year marriage I won`t let it go, I don`t care what people think, he knows I have his passwords and he has all of mine too) and caught a message he forgot to delete from her. Her words were that she loved him and she would talk to him tonight when his `f**er wasn`t around`.

Really...I think he started deleting messages on FB and in email from her because he caught on to my snooping but forgot to get rid of this one. There are other red flags too, every time he`s been on IMVU he seems to want "IT" in a bad way (if you know what I mean). I didn't catch on until just before Christmas for that connection.

I'm so rip roaring peeved off right now, when I found that message this morning with the reference to me being a "f**er" and "not around" I was shaking so badly. I'm just so numb right now - he's the last person I'd ever expect this from after everything hellish we've gone through and come away from over the years. Back in 2005 some chick on Yahoo chat started calling him at home and I found out then too. It was "curiosity" in his words. Maybe I've been this stupid about all this since 2005, maybe he's done it before without my knowledge or me catching on in between then and now. I just can't believe this sh!t. 5 kids, 13 yrs of marriage...All the hard times, good times and all the battles up mountains we went through together...and now this.

I feel so frigging betrayed. My dad did this for all of my parent's 21 years of marriage. His dad did it to his mom for 26 years of marriage. I thought I broke that cycle...maybe I'm just stupid to think it would ever be different for me than it was for my mom or his....I'm all over the place right now ain't I.

Well...I can say this at least: Never **** off a computer tech with friends in high places. If he is cheating whether emotional relationship (and I'm lucky to stupid "B" is in Texas so there's no way they've physically been together and he got savvy to phone calls to him but I don't know if he's made them out to others) or other and I don't know IF he's had any physical relationships with anyone he can get access too in or close to out of town, I will not let him get away with it without paying a hefty price for his actions.

Where does one start..and what IF I am wrong but I've always been told your gut instincts are usually right and that a feeling should never be ignored...I'm completely at a loss for all of this.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

Oh honey. I am so, so sorry. If it was my husband, all of his **** would be in the front yard. That is one thing I have always told him was unforgivable. If he cheated on me in anyway, the marriage would be over as I would NEVER be able to trust him again.

If she is saying she loves him, chances are they have been throwing that word around for longer than one conversation.

I can't tell you what to do, but I am here to listen if you want to vent.....(((HUGS)))

 

[DDD]

No advice. Just sending supportive thoughts and a hug. DDD

 

[HaoZi]

I have spent a lot of time online playing various games and I know how easy it is for this to happen over time. I've seen one fellow gamer wreck a number of marriages by herself because she played the victim card, and even when caught out some of these guys still want her. I don't get it. I've seen things go horribly wrong in other ways, too, when marriages fell apart because of time spent on the computer even when it was innocent.

It could easily have started as something like just him venting in general and finding a sympathetic ear. It can easily go from there to something more, too. Nip it in the bud and find out if he was just looking for a friend first, because if he was more actively looking for something more... you know how that goes. I've also seen people that use online type things to "spice up" their own relationships, some are open with their partners about it, some aren't. I do have platonic friends we say "I love you" to each other, but we also know it's as friends and there is no attraction or anything there, and I don't try hiding it.

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, dear.

If it's any consolation, I don't think it's about you. It's about him. That's who he is.
Also, it doesn't sound like they've actually been physical. Sounds like a shoulder to cry on with-sex chats, better than standard porn because it's give and take.

He needs something else to do with-his time. Like repairing the roof, taking the kids to a movie, vacuuming the car and scrubbing the floor. Keep him busy!!!

How do you put a key lock/count on?

 

[HaoZi]

You download the program. Check cnet.com, it has editor and real user reviews, and you can sort by price, operating system, etc.

 

[Lothlorien]

I can't even imagine that act of betrayal. I, too, have been married almost 13 years. I would be so hurt and angry, but I'd probably do the same thing....put the key logger on and go from there. I think there is a way of checking SIM cards on his phone too, but I don't know how that works.

I had to edit your F-word. I know why you put it there, but I gently edited it.

 

[Truthsong]

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this situation. It sounds like this might be coming from a place of lost communications. If he's hiding things from you and you are taking up that battle cry by spying back, then it's understandable how that can go downhill really fast. I don't say that as a judgment, but as an observation of how things might have gotten to this point.

What he's doing is frustrating, I know. And it doesn't help that this woman he's in contact with is referring to you in very rude ways. Likely, that's to do with the way he talks to her about you. So to me, that says he's got issues he has no idea how else to resolve. And in most situations like this, both sides have very reasonable explanations for why they are doing or have done certain things. But the bottom line is that this break-down in communication between the two of you has caused a rift. If you want to salvage your relationship, then perhaps the best thing for you to do is to approach him without anger or anything and tell him you know what he's been doing. Tell him that you want to talk about it and work things out, and that you'd like to do so with the help of a marriage counselor. Avoid talking about the particulars until you are in the counselor's office so that you can be sure you'll each be heard and that the conversation won't devolve into an argument which could easily escalate in a bad way.

At this point, it's important to understand that placing blame is not the answer. Chances are, you both have plenty to throw around. What matters is that you get to the heart of the problem and a marriage counselor will be able to help you to do that.

I hope for the best for you both. For the sake of your marriage and your family.
Take care.

 

[svengandhi]

I am so sorry. That happened to me, although it didn't start online. A dozen plus years together, 5 kids...

It's been more than 5 years since it ended. I don't have his FB password but I no longer care. I don't key log or check up on him. I am married because it would cost me too much to get divorced and because he's a good dad to the kids although a lousy husband to me. I don't think he's still cheating - I found a picture of him before he did it the first time and he was so handsome, now he's a fat, old guy with ED, gray hair and a heart condition.

Marriage counseling, in my humble opinion, will not work if he doesn't feel true remorse - mine doesn't and I wasted a year getting that through my head.

 

[DaisyFace]

Mama--

Say it ain't so!!!

I'm so sorry. This stinks on every level...

And if he's still sneaking around (IOW - you did not find out because he 'confessed') then he's not in any position for counseling or otherwise working on the marriage.

I'm so sorry. I wish I had some good advice here.

What do you think you want to do?

 

[Mamaof5]

Problem is, we do communicate. We always have. We're an...odd couple. I don't care that he has friends of the opposite sex and he doesn't care that I do. What really is getting to me that's making me think I'm crazy and paranoid is that we both have each others passwords, neither of us have changed ANYTHING on any of our accounts. We both know we have those passwords and are both given permission to check if we ever wanted to. He talks to me, I talk to him. We always work out stuff and none of his behaviors have changed EXCEPT for hiding the yahoo chat box last night and deleting emails strickly from her or FB private messages.

Back in Summer of 2005 the young lady who (as I call it) tried to "step into my territory" tried persuing him hard core. He even IM'ed her that he was married and wasn't interested then kind of "played along" because she just wouldn't leave him alone (I read each and every one of those IM chats and he sat with me while I did it. In fact showed them to me of his own free will when I asked to see them). He's a non-confontrational personality, he doesn't know how to say no or to peeve off and shove off to people. He does not like ANY confrontation and shuts down (not aggresively or anything like that just asks for space and doesn't want to talk about it until it's his own terms and he's comfortable doing so...okay, you know people deal with confrontation differently. As long as he's talking in the end and being comfortable to talk is one step closer to good communication without aggression).

I'm wondering if this is the same thing with this lady. Turns out she's in Vancouver rather than Texas (another friend is in Texas, mixed them up). I did ask who he was chatting with to gauge the situation last night too, he RARELY stutters...ever. Unless he's lying...He said it was his friend "Pudd" and stuttered then trailed off on the sentence with a "from IMVU & Yoville" (she is from there too but she's one of my friends too, however the other lady is not).

Sorry about the curse word...didn't even realize I typed it. That's how utterly brain fried I am by this. What's really classic, 10 years ago I confessed my being bi and said that I would never do so not even with his permission (which he gave by the way, knowing that I have "that need"). I had an opportunity where a neighbor lady was hitting on me and wanted to experience that for the first time but I said no, I'm sorry I'm married. She knew I had permission from him but I still said no - it's just not me. I chose him regardless of "that need" because "that need" is no longer a need it is a desire that would never be acted upon BECAUSE I chose him to be with. I think emotional affairs or the possibility of one is so much more devestating.

Believe me, we both have opposite sex friends that we say "I love ya" at and we both know it's a friendship "I love you" and not anything more. I have a male friend who is like a brother to me (a co author of a novel we both wrote together) that lives in Corpus Christi. He knows about it, even called him on Xmas day to say Merry Christmas right in front of the husband. I don't hide anything, he used to never hide a thing either. That's the only behavioral change. Which is why I'm going crazy and thinking I'm paranoid. That's why I'm doubting myself and what my gut is saying...maybe he thinks I'd be upset about friendship "I love yous" but he should know better. It's not like we have the finances for him to go running off over there (hence the emotional affair thing rather than physical) or that he's buying her things and sending them her way (we have no credit, no credit cards and the line of credit is a dinky 2G maxed out). The only asset we have is the van, and the clicks on the van odemeter have not changed outside of normal ranges. He doesn't have a cell phone (I do for the business but he sees EVERYTHING on it, I'll even show him text messages and the only person I text is his co-worker and our friend Melissa, bosses daughter).

How do you get a keylogger on a computer. There is a free set of keyloggers online you can use. Or you can write the program (I'm lazy, I dl'ed one). It's installed then runs in the background hidden. It can either be checked while the person is away or some can email reports generated to specified email account. You can also use PCAnywhere or an open source similar program to monitor what's going on in real time. Again this can be done in stealth mode. There's also something called VCN readers which back door a firewall, modem and gateway to monitor in real time what is going on on the screen from a remote location. (You bet all three are on the computer).

Really, honestly I thought he would know better about trying to hide stuff on the computer because of me being a techie. I really thought he was honest, better than his piece of lying **** dad and mine. Maybe I did chose a man like my dad after all. The biggest hurt - if it is true I'll never trust him again, not fully. We very well might end up a dang divorce statistic and I don't want my kids without their father. If it is true I'll be as civil as civil comes only for the kids sake. Unlike my mother. That part of the cycle I WILL break.

 

[busywend]

Take a deep breathe.

Make a decision to just ask him outright why he suddenly started hiding something from you. Tell him you were always so proud of that part of your relationship and you do not want to lose it - the open communications part.
Even if he isn't doing anything 'wrong' he is deciding to change the dynamics of your relationship to secretive and you do not want that.

Just ask him.

 

[Mamaof5]

Mama--

Say it ain't so!!!

I'm so sorry. This stinks on every level...

And if he's still sneaking around (IOW - you did not find out because he 'confessed') then he's not in any position for counseling or otherwise working on the marriage.

I'm so sorry. I wish I had some good advice here.

What do you think you want to do?

What do I want to do. I don't know yet because I don't have concrete proof just yet. I will within a week or two so I have to play it "normal". You know how incredibly hard that is? I just want to kick his head in right now and I can't because I can't go accusing without that concrete proof. Technically, I'm not actually snooping for the FB thing because we both gave permission to see whatever is there by saying here's my password use it if you want. The keylogger, I understand is definitely snooping but he's leaving my no choice when he clears the history of yahoo chat and starts deleting PMs and emails.

I just happened to catch that one this morning from last night. Probably because he purposely ignored it (it seems) after reading it. All other ones I've caught he's always answered back within minutes (this is before he started deleting them just before Xmas. I think I scared him when he figured it out that I was using that "permission" but still did not change passwords at all).

I'd like NOT to be a divorce statistic. I'd like to believe him but this other woman makes that difficult and I know it's both on them. Not just her. If it's true they both will own their actions and words. I want to make him pay for it in the worse way possible but I will be civil. Right now I need proof, next confrontation, then ultimatum and after that. Possible counselling...maybe IF he admits, apologizes and agrees. If he doesn't agree to it then it's out the door with his sorry ****. This is a deal breaker for me honestly so I'm winging it by the seat of my pants to be truthful. I just never thought I'd be THAT woman saying "Oh My God, he may be cheating on me".

 

[susiestar]

He may think that you trust him and he has no reason to need to change the passwords. Go with your instincts - they are clearly and loudly telling you that something is very wrong. This is so painful. in my opinion the emotional affairs are far more damaging than the other kinds. My childhood bff turned to me after many years when her husband had an affair that was just emotional at that time but was CLEARLY headed toward physical. He flew all over the WORLD for weeks at a time with his other woman because they worked for the same company. They managed to get help and turn it around, largely because I kept pushing her to NOT make decisions out of anger because you cannot unmake them. I did, and do, think it was a childish, ridiculous thing for him to do, and was totally wrong of him. I also helped her see that there were reasons to stay at least long enough to try to work it out. I mostly tried to just listen and urge her to stop and think rather than just react, and to make SURE before she made any decision other than to have a complete STD panel, including HIV, and to think about birth control that could prevent or help prevent STDs. Turns out that shortly after he came up with an infection right after a business trip. Didn't tell her - she found out when she finally got the screening I suggested.

I urge you to first make sure that you are healthy, and that you will stay healthy. You don't have to tell him, but have your doctor do some tests if you have ANY suspicions that he might be physical with another person. You must protect your health because there are a LOT of things out there that you can end up having to deal with for a long time. THAT kind of reminder you DON"T need, Know what I mean??

Then keep an eye on the keylogger. do you have a family plan for cell phones? Go to the carrier and ask for a printout of all texts. If you are on the account it shouldn't be a problem. Is there an app you can put on his phone if he uses internet on that? If so, get one.

If he just cannot shake this woman, you will know. her language makes me doubt that. I would wait until you know more of what is going on before asking him about it. In all of this, trust your instincts. Some men don't think their wives are suspicious or the type to check on them, so they don't bother to hide things. or to change passwords. The getting out of chat and deleting things is enough to warrant being suspicious. I totally understand about friends of the opposite sex. it is normal for husband and I, and both sets of our parents also had friends of the opposite sex. We are also very trusting - if I were to see husband in a restaurant with a woman it owuld be no big deal unless they were kissing or something. It wouldn't occur to me to be jealous. He worked in one job where it was clear that one coworker wanted to sleep with him (largely because she seemed to try for every guy, esp if they were married). I was careful to be very friendly to her, even giving her gifts for the holidays (gave her scented body lotion that was given to Jess and made us all sneeze - even husband, lol). It was NOT from him, it was from ME to her. (Making husband sneeze when she wore it was just a "benefit", lol). I also warned him that she was "on the prowl" and looking his way because he truly is oblivious to advances from other women. I have only ever seen him realize it twice and BOTH times it was almost as blatant as if the woman had walked up and stripped in front of him. He was horrified, thankfully.

This woman may have pursued him, but he is still responsible for not stopping her. I pray this isn't what it looks like and that he is secretly planning some huge surprise like a visit from a long lost childhood friend of yours. I just wouldn't rely on that. Give it time to see what he is actually doing, and then thinka bout it and what you want. If you have a therapist or priest or someone you can talk to, go to them.

Marriages can come back from this, but it takes work and a lot of willingness on his part. he may not realize how this will upset you simply because he hasn't thought about it other than with his anatomy. Some men really do turn it around when they are hit with what they will lose if they keep up this type of behavior. Therapy can be very helpful in that case. I just urge you to think before you act because if you are wrong it can make problems that are hard to recover from.

I am so sorry this is even a question in your mind. many hugs and we are here whenever you need us.

 

[katya02]

I'm so sorry. This is such a painful situation. I agree that listening to your instincts is important. You know your husband's usual way of doing things and when it
changes, there's a reason. It sounds like a little more time will provide a definite answer; in the meantime I second Susie's advice re getting some testing done.
Hopefully it will all be fine, but it'll be peace of mind. Many hugs.

 

[KTMom91]

I'm so sorry. I agree with Susie's suggestion about getting the testing done; hopefully there's a logical answer to husband's behaviors instead of what your gut is telling you.

Sending hugs and strength.

 

[TerryJ2]

Even if he isn't doing anything 'wrong' he is deciding to change the dynamics of your relationship to secretive and you do not want that.

I really like this. The way it's worded is perfect.

 

[Mamaof5]

Oh, I won't be doing anything out of anger. The "B" in me wants to but I'm too logical to do that. I'm going to let the keylogger do it's job. I'm going to let it go for a couple of days or so and see what comes of it. It's hard to act normal, I've been a bit too quiet and I think he has noticed because he hasn't "run" for the computer right away after dinner. In fact watched half of First 48, made dinner tonight too out of the blue. I realize now that lately he's been short tempered with little stuff and the kids.

Especially tonight but I think because I've been one word answers and quiet. I haven't been mean or anything and he hasn't said anything either but I bet he feels it. I can't help that and he might broach the subject tonight if he's brave enough (to which I think he just might). I won't lie but I won't volunteer either. Not yet anyway.

I do like that too: The "he may not have done anything but he chose to change the dynamics to secrets". No I don't suspect he thinks I'd check up on him even though we both have always said if we felt the need to to do so. All day I've been holding back the anger and tears and ended up privately exploding when I took a bath. I thought I'd forgotten how to silent cry guess it's like riding a bike, you just remember instinctively how.

On a plus side. An unexpected 750 bucks came in the form of a benefits check from self employment as a one time benefit for clothes for the kids. Along with FINALLY getting my HST\GST benefit today. I'm taking MY GST\HST for me and damned straight that 750 IS buying clothes for the kids (they absolutely need it along with new bedding and winter stuff ...again. I swear the dollar-ramma loves my kids for multiple hat, mitts and scarf purchases in the dozens during winter season LOL). I'm okay right now, I am my mother's daughter and stronger than I may appear. Being a writer and writing about it is cathartic.

No worries on STDs, I'm positive with what I have collected for proof that it is NOT physical but purely an emotional affair (so the evidence is suggesting so far). I'm not disillusioned though, I could be wrong but I'm not even if he doesn't realize what he's doing is an emotional affair. Though I don't think he's that much of a jack..well you get the picture.

Right now I feel contempt, hatred and pure rage toward him. Normal I'm sure. Denial part of grieving is at least over and I at least have an idea of where I stand at the moment. I don't see him being confrontational when I do confront him. I know he'll talk it out but he's got a long way to go before I trust him again fully and I will be making cutting ties completely without so much as a word demands. What really sucks...I'm hearing impaired so micro expression and body language has been screaming at me for over a year and I've been completely ignoring or dismissing it for that amount of time.

He works as a taxi driver but when he was towing the farthest he went in that time was in town, to Suds or Sault which is about 2.5 hrs either way of us and that is it. I know he's clean, my immune system is compromised and I would have known immediately something was up. I would have already been in the hospital but I'm still going for blood work JUST in case I'm wrong there too. I haven't told anyone at all, not my mom, my sister, close friends...no one. That's a hard part too. As soon as my mom calls or my sister I'm going to fall apart and then I'll have to say something. They just know right away if there's something wrong. My mom is psychic that way...it's to the point it's scary and she dogs you until it comes out.

*big breath* I can do this.

 

[HaoZi]

Whatever happens, we're here for you. *hugs*

 

[susiestar]

Sometimes moms can be that way. That is why we have them, and sisters, Know what I mean??

Just having a compromised immune system is not enough to be sure about disease. What we were told about looking for lumps/bumps on the guys in our lives, discharge, smells, itching, etc.... is NOT a reliable way to judge now. STDs have mutated and there are a LOT of women who only find out about STDs if they have the bloodwork done. Not just HIV or Hep C, or even chlamydia - syphilis and gonorrhea can now be symptomless, esp for women. So getting tested is just smart, and you are a smart woman.

I hate hate hate that you had to go back to silent crying. It just breaks my heart - and I am sorry that the unspoken signs in his behavior have been speaking to you about this for a long time. It has to be so terribly painful. Your feelings are all normal, so try and let them happen when they happen, at least as much as you are comfortable doing until you have the keylogger results.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))