Very weird problem

[BusynMember]

However, I don't understand why son can't do even simple request like get ice when we are having dinner guests over primarily to see his soń. Little store is around the corner.

Nomad, I'm the cynic here. I really think he won't do it for one reason: He is being creepy and not respecting your husband. I don't make excuses for bad behavior when these adult kids get near 30. My own son has done some jerky things and there are no excuses for it. The point is, your son TAKES the money. He doesn't have to. And he won't help your husband although he is young and your husband is old. That's just not nice.

Time for you and your husband to take a cruise and use that money for yourself. Stop over-analyzing this adult son. I think e LIKES that you give him money and I'd cut it out.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The point is, your son TAKES the money. He doesn't have to

I was WAY over 30, long married, with kids, before I learned that it is OK to turn down gifts from parents. I "didn't want to hurt their feelings". It was something you just "didn't do". Except... it was necessary.

Many kids don't know how to turn down gifts from parents even when it makes them uncomfortable.

 

[Nomad]

LOL...excuse laughter...BUT... For the first time in five years due to health reasons and other things, we haven't travelled much. And especially Since our grandson was born, we have spent the summers visiting or helping them.

This summer, we are going on TWO vacations including a cruise! And son was a little shocked that we aren't going to see them much this summer.

I'm travelling with a literal suitcase of medications. For those so inclined a little prayer would be appreciated. (Thanks)

New twist...he tells me the in laws think the "bite me" joke was funny and that we have over reacted as son is a p c and a jokester. Hmmm.
However, the in laws are well known for not speaking their mind about things and son knows this. I subtly mentioned this and he understood, but did not comment.

Believe me...I hear what you all are saying. I AM disappointed. I spoke with him and mentioned the ice thing. He said he never thought about it like that.....went along the same lines as SWOT's post.

INSANE...I just saw your post!!! Well the Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) part of it does confuse the issue!?!?! And yes, even if he was inclined to turn down the money, it would probably be hard to figure out how to do it. He is frugal though...

I do have to give him credit for doing well in life and being productive and a good husband and father. These are great things.

He called and sincerely apologized, but he is not exactly empathetic overall. I pray that will come in time...the sooner, the better. It is time...past time, really.

Oh...will definitely discuss with hubby cutting back the dinero.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Some creative grandparent $$$ ideas... as in, for those with a bit of it to throw around. I've known families where the parents were downright wealthy, and the kids struggling but wanting their independence, and here's what two families did (one idea from each one).

1) Make investments in the grandkid(s) names - whether it is an education fund, or stocks in Disney, or something... where it is directly for the grandkids

2) Pay for costly but extremely healthy activities for the kids that the parents agree would be great but can't afford... hockey, horses, swim club... something that the kid REALLY has a long-term interest in. Be prepared to invest yourself as well as $$, if you do this.

In the second case, the kids still had hand-me-down clothes, and home-made lunches. They were not well off. When the other kids said... but you're in Hockey... your parents have money... the kid explained that the grandparents were paying for that - it was a gift. It really took some of the "poor kid" heat off at school. The parents could have afforded the activity somehow, but it would have generated financial requests from the kids in other areas... sometimes it's a nice option. Because the kid was in one "cool" activity, they were accepted, poor or not.

 

[Nomad]

Good ideas, Insane!
They , ESP. daughter in law, have hinted we should pay or contribute to the toddlers school. He is going to a very expensive pre school. This is causing them some financial concern. It is VERy expensive. I have a fund started for his college. My thought was that taking the burden of college away is HUGE. I'm proud that they have chosen to sacrifice for their child and enrolled him in a very advanced (and expensive ) pre school. But, I don't feel great about spending big money for that. And it would be too expensive for us anyway...although we could comfortably contribute. I think I would pay for something like piano lessons etc. yes, I definitely would like to be doing something different. But, I don't want to commit to something very expensive and indefinite. But, different, more worthwhile and better appreciated...all sounds good.

 

[Copabanana]

I'm travelling with a literal suitcase of medications.

I knew a woman who had cancer that traveled with a refrigerator to refrigerate essential medicines. She loved to travel and would not consider not doing so. That always stuck in my mind. People can have extraordinary courage and strength of will. And I am afraid to drive freeways and big trucks.

They , ESP. daughter in law, have hinted we should pay or contribute to the toddlers school.

No way.

Nomad, are you made of money? Nothing personal. But really.

My mother had money but she would have never thought about using her money for anything other than her own pleasure or security, except for emergencies or small gifts.

Indirectly that benefited her children because her assets were preserved. Her money went to children who were approaching or already old, with college age children, in my case with a disabled son.

If I do anything at all for my grandchildren (that as yet do not exist), it will be something that I choose not because my child puts pressure on me, even discretely. Do I sound mean?

 

[Nomad]

Copa...no, you don't sound mean. And I'm not made of money. Ha! I appreciate your input and everyone's. My head is like a fuzz ball. Sooooo appreciate this discussion from everyone. I'm trying to pack and it's been hard. I've been terrified to travel...but I decided I would push through that. Especially since grandson has been born, we've spent the last three summers visiting and helping son. It was easier, especially due to my health problems. We weren't suppose to have two vacations this summer... A very very weird, happy accident...but we are "going for it!"

Geez...I needed this discussion. Thank you everyone.

 

[Childofmine]

Nomad, the first thing I started thinking about when I was reading your post---just catching up here---is it sounds a whole lot like "this generation." I realize you said he has other stuff going on, and I guess you can attribute some of it to that as well, but in general, I think most of us have overindulged our grown kids, and they have had basically everything they wanted, so...they expect a lot.

I know you said he is a very high achiever---which is great! Perhaps giving so much is keeping him "as a kid" instead of him feeling like a grown man. I do think we have to resist our natural temptation to want to help. Helping keeps people back, not really helps them, most of the time (not all the time).

I agree with pulling back on your generosity and instead of just acting to fill in any stated gaps, keep your "gifts" few and far between.

Maybe it's about creating a more reciprocal and balanced relationship. If he's not the best person to ask to get the extra ice or wait at your house for a repairman, then okay, but there needs to be some "give" on his side, whatever that looks like.

I wouldn't overthink this, just, if you are getting a bad reaction to one thing or another, like you mentioned, change your approach and see what else might work.

I agree that I don't like the "bite me" thing. You've told him now about that. Next time he says it, just go silent. No need to say anything and no reaction. Back off at that instant. That might be enough to put a stop to it. Sounds like he is being a bit "flip and funny" and you're right, it's not.

husband and I were talking last night about Difficult Child and how much progress he has made in the past year. husband said, now, he needs to step up his game and quit wearing DG ball caps and keep his pants pulled up. Same type of thing...have some personal dignity, is what I call it. Grow freakin' up. It's time.

First rule of the forum: stop the flow of money. Take it to a mere trickle. That's always always good advice.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Nomad, everyone has given you good advice. Perhaps it may be prudent to express to your son what your feelings are before you take any action. We can read a lot into his actions, however, only he knows why he is responding the way he is. It all seems rather incongruent to me. There may be more to it that he isn't even aware of himself, something completely unrelated to what is being addressed.

And, I could be dead wrong too. I am just remembering times I got to have a heart to heart with someone and found out that all of my interpretations were completely wrong, once the gates of truth were opened up and it was safe to show up, I found out something entirely different was going on which was at times not even up to awareness yet, but the act of truthful expression brought it to the surface. Sometimes we act out in ways that are inappropriate but it isn't about the obvious.

I don't know, if it were me, I think I would attempt a communication and leave my speculations aside for a moment and really try to hear what is being said. Our kids have all sorts of "stuff" with us that we aren't even aware of......I know I did with my parents......and sometimes that "stuff" can get in the way of honest appropriate responses. It's a slippery slope.

I remember one time when my daughter was acting badly and I was able to sit with her for awhile in my newly attained ability to not say much and just listen......... and eventually I found out she was really scared about something and she broke down. Her acting out was covering up a fear. I had no idea.

Anyway, none of this may be the case with your son, it was just my first reaction and I thought I would share it.

 

[Copabanana]

Wow this is turning into a great thread.

"this generation.

they have had basically everything they wanted

M my SO''s first and most enduring interpretation of my son's problem, is that he had been given too much.

WHHHHHAAAAT? No he wasn't, I protested.

But this was the same mother that spent hundreds of dollars a month buying his special food, Wild Caught Salmon, at Costco, sticks particularly in my mind, while he disrespected me, gossiped about me, did not work or go to college.

I did not indulge him with stuff like many toys or electronics. It is that I did not expect enough. In contributions, in respect, in problem solving, from him. Reciprocity was non-existent.

Where did this come from: I am a Dr. Spock baby and a boomer, from the Hippie era. Is that what this is from or was it because I was alone and always either working or tired? Or wildly trying to recover from such?

Overindulgence was the first thing that struck M, my SO, about our relationship. From Mexico he started working at 5 to feed his mother and his siblings, and emancipated at 11.

quit wearing DG ball caps

What are these COM? Am I the only one who does not know?

Perhaps it may be prudent to express to your son what your feelings are before you take any action

I got to have a heart to heart with someone and found out that all of my interpretations were completely wrong

Absolutely, Recovering. Duh....

 

[Copabanana]

Nomad, I forgot to tell you how absolutely thrilled for you that you are going on two vacations this summer but I think you deserve three.

If I may, may I ask what frightens you about travel? Is it related to your illness?

What is curious is that I am a fearless traveler (except for planes, but if I am out of the habit, I take medicine). There was a time of my life that I filled a passport with entry and exit stamps and visas for international travel. I loved it.

The thing is this: while I was busy being Marco Polo I became afraid to drive freeways and then bridges and now big rig trucks scare me. I live in a agricultural town that is a transport hub. I am almost confined to the city limits.

Until I started traveling a lot I was the most confident of drivers. Anywhere. Any time. Any conditions. It is curious to me that as I gained a competency internationally, I lost one domestically.

Fears and why they develop, especially in middle aged women are a particular interest of mine. Smile.

 

[BusynMember]

Insane, just thinking you are probably the exception not knowing how to say no to a parent's gift. Most kids can say it easily (adult kids). I don't think this man is atypical. I just think he's wanting to save money so he accepts money from his parents, which is selfish and wrong, and then doesn't want to help his older dad because he doesn't want to help his older dad. His life otherwise is too functional for him to be very atypical. I am slightly atypical and that doesn't mean I can't do anything...there are some things I can't, but saying "no, I don't want that from you" isn't hard.

Now I'm not going to pursue these thoughts on this thread, but in my opinion only (and it's up to Nomad what to think and what to do, not you and not me) I t hink he's just used to getting free money, doesn't like to spend his own and is being a bit of a brat.

Either way, the money should stop yesterday. He doesn't need it. He has it. He's old enough to let his parenst off the hook and he certainly can help his father in a bind. To me it is disrespectful and wrong that he won't. I don't think it's anything that unusual...just that he doesn't want to help his dad, but he likes when his dad helps him. Happens every day.

Agree to respectfully disagree and give Nomad food for thought

 

[Nomad]

Travel...I have lupus, Sjögren's syndrome, atypical Trigeminal neuralgia (very painful) and low platelets and am being watched currently for possible IVIG therapy since I can't take any more steriods. Took so many steriods, one of my retinas blew apart and I'm nearly blind in,one eye. I also have some other odd blood problems due to the autoimmune stuff and lots of body aches, as well as interstitial cystitis , migraines and all the. Usual ailments like high blood pressure, thyroid problems, etc, which I don't even think about anymore. I have flares that can take me out me out for days....so I walk on egg shells at times. My doctors have given me all sorts of emergency medications.

Last time we went on a trip (business trip for hubby) out of the six days we were there, I was super sick for nearly three. . And in much pain. Hence, I have trepidation and am much more prepared,)

by the way, I had to fire my last GP, because every time I would get her partner and show up for a cold (I catch them easily) he would send me to the ER. My new doctor is wonderful!

 

[Nomad]

SWOT...I hear you. . I have many of the same thoughts, concerns, etc.
Recovering...we are communicating and I like that. He spoke with me and my hubby today on the phone. It went fairly well.
COM and almost everyone....ipCutting back is definitely up for discussion.

 

[Copabanana]

Nomad, you are a real trooper.

I have an occasional symptom that comes on me, where I became afraid at even the thought of going even an hour away because I felt so potentially exposed. I feared it would happen and that I would have nowhere to hide.

As a consequence of this conversation I realize the fear has much receded. I have been buying clothes in order to travel. And as I type this I realize that I have not worried about this problem or the fear of it in a while. As I write this I feel it has lost its power.

In my case this thing that scared me was probably not related to a serious health problem. I think it came from an inability to handle my life, when before I always did. I handled everything, and then I could not.

And came the fear my body would betray me. Or that I will betray myself. Lack of confidence. Letting events over which I have no control define me, and not my own strengths and self-determination.

As I write this I have the certainty, the absolute knowledge that I will handle anything that comes. Even this scary and embarrassing lack of control.

I am sure that this confidence and conviction only came very recently as a direct result of work I am doing on this board.

Nomad, thank you very much for sharing with me and others. Thank you for the opportunity to become aware of and acknowledge myself for changing.

 

[Nomad]

Com...I've done the silent thing before ...and started to leave...when physically with him and he starts with the stupid , inappropriate comments. He suddenly stops and apologies and asks me not to leave.
It is very effective, thank u for reminding me. I don't know what the equivalent is for a cell phone. This is sooo incongruent and I hate it. He talked with hubby about it and I hope hubby got through to him. Weird weird weird.

 

[LoveSushi]

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion.

And it seriously is how I (try) to give, in every single instance and to every single person.

Give with no expectation of return on your "gift". If you expect something in return, then just don't give it, whether it's money, your time, your whatever. Otherwise, you'll more likely than not just feel cheated.

Too, I understand how some grown adults may feel resentful towards their parents, because the parents have a way of making their grown children feel like they "owe" them. They may pull away from the parents because any kindness or generosity seems to come with a "now you owe us" attitude. My kids owe me nothing, and I hope I never make them feel like they do. I chose to have them, and not so I'd have someone to take care of me in my old age.

Maybe it's just my own experiences.

 

[Childofmine]

Copa, DG stands for Digital Gangster. There is a store in almost any upscale mall that sells hats, shirts etc with that logo. I never even paid attention to what it stood for but Difficult Child started wearing those clothes---always has been a big clotheshorse with all kinds of high end clothes including polo and Abercrombie. My other son for years only wanted clothes from Goodwill. Polar opposites raised in the same house by the same parents.

 

[AppleCori]

It doesn't sound like he has a problem with refusing a gift.

He and his wife seem to feel entitled to your help.

I am thinking about something that Cedar has talked about--making our adult children into beggars. Could it be that by doing too much for our adult kids, we are enabling them, training them, to depend on us?

 

[DammitJanet]

Nomad I know you are very proud of your son and I am pretty confident he has turned into a really good man but that doesn't mean you will like every move he makes.

I have one son who we are really pretty proud of and consider him a success. I honestly don't like some things he does and he can be a bit insensitive to me sometimes. However he does more right overall and is probably fixing to go into a branch of federal law enforcement which is extremely exciting. I have to take the good with the bad.

Now on another hand... I am still angry as all get out because back when I was in the accident and had no way to get to a store during the day, Mandy flat refused to stop by my house and get me even though she was passing right by the house. Believe me, I won't lift a finger to help her anymore.