Walking Away

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by 2much2recover, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Knowing when to walk away is wisdom.
    Being able to walk away is courage.
    Walking away with your head held high is dignity.
     
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I agree 2much, but I think (at least this is true for me) that we can never walk away with our heads held high. I am so ashamed, sometimes, that these things have happened to me. Or I am so ~ it's like I feel stupid. I don't get the motivation, so I think that what is happening to me could not be true.

    That is why Radical Acceptance has been good for me. That, and the scientificly based information you and MWM post for us, here.

    Why doesn't matter.

    Just get out.

    Remember that story about the toxic pond, and about the frog princess who went back for a short visit and never got out again?

    That is how scary some of this stuff seems to me.

    The longer I am away from the dynamic in my family of origin, the more the extraneous pieces are falling into place and I see...I don't know what I see.

    True wickedness, or something worse.

    It's mind blowing, when you think about how these kinds of people have changed the world. My own personal world, the worlds of my children, the whole, wide world.

    War, racism, the celebration of poverty or education priced beyond attaining it or strip mining. (I have been learning about the way they strip mine, these days. They are blasting the tops of the Appalachian mountains off to get at the seams of coal. I cannot believe it. Such an ugliness, and such a stupidity. Who thinks this stuff up?!?)

    I know I sound batty.

    But haven't we all (most of us, the best of us) wondered how it is that people can so vehemently believe some of the things they believe?

    It is not different, in our dysfunctional families.

    Cedar
     
  3. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    These are all brought to us by the political and wealthy sociopaths. I don't see what they do to us, the citizens and this country as any different than what my daughter does to others - they just are able to do it on a grander scale because we have given them the power to destroy with their corruption. A good show to watch and see governmental sociopath archetypes in action is Netflix "House of Cards".

    There are very scary people that are really out to get us LOL. And they have names and (mostly) diagnoses. We fail ourselves when we refuse to see them for what they are and keep ourselves and our hearts out of anybody's life who we can clearly see is disordered. For disordered does has disordered is. Playing it safe and going along is not a possibility. When you are involved with these types, there is always, ALWAYS, a game being run under every conversation, every interaction. If you are not disordered yourself, again, I have said this in the past, you are not capable of speaking the same language of the disordered person. That puts you always at risk because you have no idea what lengths the disordered person is willing to go to win the "game".

    After you come to accept that it is not your fault that your child is who they are, you do get there as all suffering can only last a certain length of time. The further out you bring yourself from identifying with the disordered person, the less shame there is to feel. As far as friends and family that you feel may bring you to feeling ashamed - stop sharing with them things that make you feel this way. Others may not get it, ever. So then it becomes none of their business unless you allow it by bringing it up. When asked about Difficult Child: FINE and change the subject. You, are never responsible to share what is painful for you with others. What they don't know, they can't judge you on, therefore you have nothing to be ashamed of. Slowly, the walls of shame start to dissolve when we begin to let ourselves off the hook for DNA connection we have no control over.
     
  4. nlj

    nlj Well-Known Member

    You don't sound batty Cedar.
    You sound like one of the sane ones, trying to stop the juggernaut of wickedness in the world, mowing down the little people, the ones who try and stand up against people like those mine owners.

    I'm feeling sad and hopeless lately.
    The more I research, the more sad and hopeless I feel.
    It's a side-effect of having a political, activist son.

    At 53 I know it's all pointless.
    At 27 he still thinks it's not.

    I'm sad that he will get to 53 eventually and discover that nothing's changed and that the world, what's left of it, is still full of wickedness.
     
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I refuse to watch the news these days. I can't control the world and, especially with the U.S. and the political scene here, it is downright frightening to somebody who values the rights of everybody, including the poor and minorities. Seems we just are going to take more and more from them from the little they have. The world is hugely scary, but how does worrying about it help?

    Kids in the U.S. are, by and large, totally unaware of the world at large. I doubt my kids even know what ISIS is, except for Bart, who doesn't care. None of my children have ever voted. My husband, who is a vet, does not vote. "They are all the same idiots." We suffer from extreme apathy in the U.S. and it is already starting to hurt us, although most are too apathetic to know.

    At least your son, Lucy, does care, even if there is little he can really do.I really respect him for that, even if his youthful thinking is foolish and a bit extreme.

    I can't remember a U.S. generation since I've been alive that does care here since the 60's and that was largely because the kids themselves were threatened with being drafted, not because they would have cared at all about Nam if they had not been at risk.

    At 61 I have decided to stay in my own cocoon because, as it is with our own adult children, there is nothing we can do about the problems of the world. When I can, I volunteer to make a real difference. These bigger issues are way out of my hands.

    Cedar, you sound sane to me. I just chose to drop out of the larger world, in which nutjobs and psychopaths in every country are the ones who have the control and so many little guys kiss up to them not realizing that these nutjobs have nothing bust disdain for them.

    I understand how Hitler happened, and I'll leave it at that.

    Scott Walker is running for President. Well, it's one way to get him out of Wisconsin.

    But I am afraid he is extreme and crazy enough to win. The world is right about us. At least, it is my opinion that we are backward and way too friendly to the wealthy at the expense of those who can't get ahead, which is more and more each day. And we don't know much about other countries. Or care much. Not everyone. But a large slice.

    I'm crawling back into my hole. Good-night :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  6. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    This does seem to be true. When I look through the nature of questionable interactions in my own life, I mean. It seems true too that, if the thing that happens seems to be missing pieces or seems just not to make sense, that is how we can know.

    It does seem unkind and accusatory and to be name calling to take this position. But you know, it does seem to be undeniably true that strange things happen ~ and that there are people who will push until they do.

    I am pretty invested in believing people can change. But then, look what happened with the male who beat difficult child daughter.

    We thought he had changed, too.

    That was part of that whole dark thing, that loss of faith thing, I went through after that happened.

    Surely it isn't true that we cannot change, that we would be who we are however we were raised, that it's all in the genetics.

    There is free will. It has to be something to do with needing someone else to be hurt to know we were not the one hurt.

    Or maybe, there is a genetic imperative for these kinds of people to have survived, back in the day when people needed to be cold and quick and utterly focused on their own survival.

    And maybe it's empathy that is the luxury.

    ?

    Cedar
     
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Cedar, anyone can change (almost anyone). But they have to want to change and to change what you actually are, you need serious therapy and a lot of hard work on the side too. People do not just have an event happen, such as the birth of a child, and magically change. Their brains are pretty hardwired and it is NOT easy to change. I practically took three college courses and studied constantly to change who I started out being.Our difficult kiddos tend not to be motivated or even think there is something wrong with them and therefore they do not change.
     
  8. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Can anyone change the basic foundation of who is they are? Mental Illness can be treated but the very basics of personality can't change. From what I understand a stand alone diagnosis of personality disorder is no longer covered by health insurance for this very reason. At our core of who we are, we can not change, mental illness can be with therapy and medication.
     
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Insurance doesn't want to cover it because it is hugely expensive to treat and the outcome isn't certain. Treatments for depression, for example, have a fairly good "success" rate, and on average, reasonable time frames. Treatments for personality disorders are very dependent on the degree to which the person wants to change. Change is possible; cure is not. The most damaging aspects can be modified... IF the patient is willing to put in a whole lot of hard work over the long haul.
     
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Underneath a mental illness, we are still who we are. Some motivated to get help and independent...some helpless, needy, and entitled. The depression can be treated; not the neediness or entitlement. That has to come from them after A LOT of hard work and therapy. Dare I say years?

    Some insurance here will cover personality disorders, but, if they won't, the doctors just call it bipolar disorder or something else. There is always a way to get help if the person wishes to get it.

    Aspergers is no longer a valid diagnosis for insurance so doctors put down autistic spectrum disorder.

    Honestly, I'm on Medicaid and have never been turned down for any treatment, psychological or medical. Even my reconstruction is covered 100%. It just requires a doctor to talk to the insurance company. Or else Medicaid, the evil government insurance, is better than private coverage.
     
  11. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Yes years. I've heard somewhere that IF there is any impact, five years isn't unusual.
     
  12. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Maybe at one time insurance paid - but as of 2014 (at least) strictly personality disorders, no payment.
     
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