We had to call crisis this morning

[Dollhouse]

My son was asleep from 6pm last evening until this morning. He came in to my room at 6am asking for the car keys to go to the gym. I was asleep and he wouldn't leave me alone. He began to get agitated when I told him no and then he just flipped. He said he was going to kill himself and he started banging his head against a chair and crying. He then started trashing his own room, kicked in our nightstand and was just irrational.

I called the police and while we asked them to send crisis, they did not. They sent 4 flipping officers who talked to my son (who would not let me speak, by the way) and said this was a domestic violence situation. I took 3 officers in the bedroom and was adamant that this is a crisis situation and that my son had threatened suicide. I demanded that they bring the ambulance to take him to crisis. What morons. I am so angry about that. It is within my rights to ask that someone from crisis come here to talk to him calmly and take him to the hospital. The police didn't even know we asked for crisis!!!!!

In anycase, they told my son he had to go to the hospital and my son became agitated and tried to get his laptop...then, they started getting in his face and said he was being uncooperative. I don't agree with their tactics, because outside they threw him to the ground (HE WAS NOT BEING VIOLENT) and he hit his head. While I understand they feel the need to take action because they don't know if a person is violent or not - he WAS trying to cooperate, but they still were rough with him. They took him in handcuffs to the hospital.

He is at the hospital (with his cell) and he told them he grants me permission to come down there. I haven't gone yet -- but before you flame me; I may go down there to see if I can help sign an Advanced Directive to give me proxy for his healthcare. Right now, he is lucid -- he called me and said that the police bruised his arm and that his wrists are bleeding. He may be open to that if I tell him the only way he can come back is if we do it the way I want him to. I don't know...

I'm not asking for advice or opinions -- I'm just venting. I haven't even cried because I knew it would come down to this. I'm just angry with the police.

Take Care

 

[missy44]

I'm so sorry that you had to go through that, it sounds like it was such a terrifying situation. I had to call the police one time on my son for an argument that had gotten out of hand and it was such a scary time.

Take care....

 

[slsh]

Oh hon- vent away. I'm so very sorry that your day started off this way. I think you handled it quite well. Sorry the police didn't handle it the best but... at least son is in hospital now. I see absolutely nothing wrong at all with going down to hospital to be involved with- treatment. Best to get there while he's still being cooperative.

Things work differently in different localities, but whenever we've needed to have our difficult child transported, I've called 911 and requested an ambulance to transport a mentally ill patient (we don't have a crisis team here). That will guarantee the ambulance plus several police officers if things get hairy. I think officers do tend to err on the side of caution - not that it's easy to see them restrain our kids, but (being a veteran of these kinds of calls), I would much rather see them keep my son contained than risk him bolting or attacking an officer. It's just a horrible scene all the way around and I'm so very sorry your family is going thru this right now.

Please remember to take care of yourself right now. Your son is safe and supervised. You need some TLC.

Gentle hugs to you.

 

[everywoman]

Just a hug. I know it hurts to watch him in so much emotional turmoil and feel like your hands are tied.

 

[Andy]

Hugs and sending strength. So hard when you know the right way and others will not listen. So hard to watch the police being rough instead of calling in the crisis team who would have handled it differently.

You will be in my thoughts today. Let us know how you are doing.

 

[Dollhouse]

What's funny is that he just called and he's being released. He wasn't even there 2hrs!!! I'm on the phone now with the hospital; I'm trying to get in touch with-the screener to see why they are letting him go. The nurse said 'he was 'fine'. My mom is here and my husband does not want him to come back. It's a hard thing because he really has nowhere to go. Please don't tell me he shouldn't or he should -- I am just 'talking'

My gut had told me to go down there right away so I could speak with the doctors/screeners and I didn't go. I could have tried to make some headway with my son while he was in the dr's care.

The screener is actually going to call me back in a few mins; I have his number if he doesn't get back to me in 15mins.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Marcie Mac]

Here when you call for an ambulance for a mental health crisis, only the police show up and if they decide mental help is needed, they call a crisis team to come out and assess the situation and they decide if the person is to go to the hospital or not.

One of my sons friends is skitzofrenic (sorry for the spelling) and came over to our house to say goodby as he was off to jump off the overpass as the FBI wouldn't leave him alone and was putting thoughts in his head. He was so out of it I just sat on the porch with him trying to calmly talk to him while I don't know how many police showed up with tazers in hand. They were not too happy when I refused their orders to move away from him and I kept telling them to call the crisis to take him to the hospital. They finally showed up a half our later, and off to the hospital he went. I could just envision how the police easily could have escalated the situation and tortured that poor kid more than he already was hitting him with tazers He wasn't being violent, just talking about how he wanted to end it as he couldn't get the FBI to stop looking in his head.

I am very leery of the police here - they have a tendancy to shoot first and ask questions later..sigh.

Am hoping the hospital will keep him for a while and will do some tests on your son.

Marcie

 

[Dollhouse]

I spoke with the screener; they said he is fine and is not exhibiting any sucidal or homicidal tendancies. I told the screener that if you saw him a mere 5hrs ago, that it was a different story.

They said he was honest and open about his drug use, that he felt remorse, yada, yada, yada. He said he wants to go to counseling. I told the screener he may be saying that so that he can be released -- that there is no guarantee that this won't happen again, even tonight.

They feel there is no need to keep him to for psychiatric evaluation. This is ridiculous. I go to NAMI (National Association for Mental Health) to get help and they tell me "call crisis -- they'll hold him for 72hrs). Well they don't know what they are talking about. Why am I trying to get counseling, etc when they won't help us?!?

So, I may have to go get him and we are trying to decide if the only stipulation is that he assign an advanced directive so I have management over his health matters before we decide he can come home. My mother has offered to let him stay at her place for a few days, however she won't tolerate the beligerent attitude.

Life ***...I wish God were here.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

I am SO sorry, and I have no advice. Just very sorry. sending you all the strength I can muster up.

 

[standswithcourage]

Yes I have been in the same situation. I have called 911 and they usually send an ambulance. Sometimes the police took my son and sometimes they didnt. If he continued to be violent I called them again - especially when he threatened suicide - then they take him to the hospital. It is scary. It was for me. I felt like I held on the phone to 911 forever until they got there.

 

[CrazyinVA]

I'm sorry. I remember the days of being woken up by Youngest like that, sometimes in the middle of the night.

Police really need to have more training in dealing with the mentally ill. Some localities clearly have better training than others, but it is SO important.

I think the screener's resonse is pretty typical, sadly. Sometimes there are so few beds that they take only the full-crisis mode people, only .. and let the ones that will talk their way out of it, walk on out. been there done that, too.

Hugs.

 

[Nomad]

Just saw your update...
I'm sorry that they didn't hold him at the hospital...esp. if you think that this would be appropriate.
That happened once with- our difficult child...although we were not the ones who called for her to be taken in.
I'm sorry that this has happened. Out of curiosity...why do you think your son tried to get his laptop? Was it for self soothing purposes or something entirely different?
At least he wiill see that there logical consequences when one threatens suicide.
Is he willing to see a regular physician? You might ask around to see if there is one who has had training in mental health issues.
He surely needs to talk with- somebody. If he would be willing to go to a relatives house...at least for a short time...perhaps that relative could talk him into therapy. If he is out of the community...maybe there wouldn't be a stigma involved for him.

 

[rejectedmom]

You said you didn't want advice only to vent. I have been in the situation you describe. difficult child got worked up and violent. The police came but difficult child was no longer violent. Police didn't believe that i was very hurt and it took alot for me to convince them that difficult child needed to be taken to the hospital. Finally he agreed to take difficult child and difficult child went willingly. difficult child stayed less than an hour and then signed himslef out because he had a party he wanted to go to and he was 18 and could legally refuse treatment. The doctor called me and told me that they could not hold him against his will because he didn't meet the criteria.

For a parent it is frustrating to think things are going to happen that will get your kid help only to find out otherwise. Sorry that you are dealing with this. -RM

 

[Dollhouse]

Hi Nomad --

I think my son wanted the laptop, just for self-soothing. He loves to create new music (quite good too) and I think his understanding (in his irrational mind) would be that he could be at the hospital by using his laptop for comfort.

We (my mom, sister and myself) did go pick him up. We made him wait a looong time before we went. We pretty much had a family intervention in the car. We all laid it out to him in a loving manner and he listened. I'm not being unrealistic; thinking all is well, but at least he was receptive to what we had to say. He gets along well with his grandmother and aunt and tends to listen to them, as I am too close to the situation. He still had some irrational thoughts; but we were able rationalize just WHY he still needs to seek therapy continuously to be able to earn his privlidges back, feel better and LIVE LIFE to the best of his ability.
He was honest in saying that he is quite annoyed at me and that he wishes I would learn to communicate with him better. One thing I learned, is that it is also important to listen to how the individual who is ill is feeling. We let him speak and didn't judge; but also counter-acted with rational examples when he was not on point.

He will be staying at a friend's for the day and staying with my mom this evening. My husband is going out of town on business tomorrow afternoon until Tuesday, so we hope that him being with my mom for a few days will help calm the chaos in the house that happened today.

He will be going with me on Monday to a center for a full assessment; I made it clear that it has to be done. While he did call another center on his own on Thursday, which is in our town -- they don't have appointments for another 2-3 weeks for an assesement. I told him (and my sister and mom also reiterated to him) that it would be in his best interest to go to the place where I made the appointment first to get started. When his place calls, he can then transition over. The place I made the appointment at is 40mins away and really wouldn't be doable to travel to for outpatient therapy on a regular basis. The place my son called is only 7mins away.

Sorry for the long post -- as my husband just said to me, we have accomplished a lot in a short few days. I hope it drives the point home to him that we will NOT tolerate this behavior anymore. I even told him, I won't do it -- it's destructive, disruptive and it can't happen like this anymore. We told him that we love him, we told him all the positives he had in his life, and we said we care. I told him that even though I called the police, I did it because I LOVE him -- he may not see that now, but it was out of love and care for him so that he can get help and move on with his life.

Will it happen?? Only time will tell....He may act out again at some point...But at least I can try. And I won't be scared again to make a move. While painful; I feel strong that I finally did something; even though unpleasant.

Best,
Doll

 

[compassion]

Doll, I am so sorry youexperinced this. We went through idmilar lst summer when my daughter was having pwycotic rages and stealign and wrcking our car (at age 15). They were goign to take her to jail and I got her into a psch unit .
I since have beennvolved in Nami and leanrd that inur area, thankfuly they have crisis intervention team. Lst month, they came and it was so mjuch better. I was so impiressed. They have a lot of traing (Nami does it) with daling iwht mentally ill. They were soothing and supportive and did not have sirens, lights on,etc. They did not Baker Act her though as she ws not in crisis when we called. We ewere told that they could by just saying she was not taking medications, acting pyscotic,etc. They did talk to the psychiatrist's office and they could transport her to crisis stabilization in our county where the fcality I was havng her trated was inthe next county. She said she would go and seemed stable enough at the one facility. She flew into pycotic rage on the wy sown there but we got her there. This was 6 weeks ago. She is 15.
She still thnks dhshe is quite OK, she is much more stable but stil needs tratment inpateint for quite awhile.
I am glad I am able to get her help befoe she turns 18.
Compassion

 

[katya02]

I'm so sorry to hear about this, and I hope yesterday's evaluation went smoothly. I also hope you've had some rest and peace over the weekend.

Re patients being held for 72 hours, NAMI should probably be a little more careful about making statements like that. A patient can be held involuntarily for 72 hours for evaluation IF he/she is demonstrating suicidal intent, homicidal intent, or is so demonstrably unable to care for him/herself that he/she is about to come to imminent harm. If someone can give a reliable history of any of these factors that is also acceptable. Suicidal intent has to be more than a statement, particularly during high emotion, that he/she is going to kill him/herself. There has to be history or evidence of a plan and some attempt to work the plan. Also, a gesture with a lethal weapon such as a knife or gun is taken at face value.

It is extremely frustrating for families who know their relative is in crisis, yet can't be held. For example, mere psychotic thinking is not cause for involuntary admission. Someone can be hallucinating like mad and it won't get them admitted. This comes from the concerns of those who fear that people will be held involuntarily for insufficient reason, or merely on the report of 'strange' behavior by a relative who might have ulterior motives for getting them admitted. It has been a political issue for patient advocates.

The other difficulty getting patients admitted is insurance. Companies won't pay unless there's a dire situation and even then they pay for too few days of admission. The situation is no better with universal insurance - in Ontario we used to call all over the province to find a bed and would end up sending someone from, say, Hamilton to a place hundreds of miles away, like Ottawa or North Bay. Not a good thing. Many people who should have been admitted were sent out due to a lack of beds. I don't know the answer.

 

[Star*]

I see you dont want advice - so this isn't advice it's a suggestion.

In the event that a situation like this would happen again with your son (and we pray not) but -

Call your local county sheriff (you know the guy that you vote for every so often) and ask to set up a meeting with HIM only-

Explain to him that your son has issues - then ASK him if his officers have had any CIT. Crisis intervention training. (you can google if so inclined)

Most police do not have this needed training to avert a crisis. Had someone there been trained the entire situation would have gone differently. (been there done that and KNOW)

But it's worth a hi, I'm the Mom visit - and here's what is going on in our home meeting with the head honcho.

Also - look into Baker Act.

Sorry for your horrible day.

Hoping things get better for all!

Star

 

[Dollhouse]

Thanks to all for your replies and comments. Also, thank you to Star* for the information. I have never heard of the "Baker Act", and did not know this existed. I will look in to this more.

My son pretty much stayed with friend during the day for the past 3 days and slept over at my mom's at night during those days. On Monday, we had an appointment with a facility that has outpatient therapy and has a residential home, more for high-schoolers. As I'm sure you know -- lots of paperwork to fill out and a brief screening by the clinician there. We went in together and then he went by himself. When we went together, he had a 'wall' up and had much bravado with a "I don't care" attitude. He also had a drug test for marijuana which still came up positive (they called me with the results on Tuesday).

Their recommendation was that he should be in outpatient therapy for anger and behavior-modification. He was willing to go; however, this facility is about 40mins from our house and they DO NOT have medication management. The clinician did try to convince him do do residential, even if it were for 2-3 weeks just so he could have some acute care and get it over with. He did say at first he doesn't want to be "confined" anywhere, but seemed to listen when she went on further that the treatment is up to him and it could be 2 weeks to 30 days.

They also referred us to 2 places near our home -- one place my son had called last Thursday (he is on the waitlist, which could be 2weeks) and another place that DOES have medication management, behavioral therapy, psychiatrists and group therapy. He said he would consider calling that place, but has not as of yet. It's funny, he asked to be dropped off a friend's yesterday who just graduated from this place I just mentioned. I wondered if he asked him about it and how the program was.

When driving home from the appointment on Monday, my son pulls out his laptop and asks me to listen to all the new music he has created. (HUH? This kid told me he hated me just 3 short days ago when he was taken in handcuffs!!). he's so good! I wish he would get himself together to pursue this, but alas it is up to him. He asked me to drop him at a friends, which I did. He did come home for the first time to sleep on Monday evening.

Yesterday (Tues) he cleaned his room (he had trashed it in anger when the police came on Sat) and he's been sleeping from 11pm to 7:30am which is a tiny blessing. Previously, just 1 short week ago, and for months prior -- he had been up all night and then sleeping until 4 or 5pm in the afternoon. Since the police incident, his sleeping patterns have changed for the better. He's actually up during the day now! Oh..also, he had a 2nd call from a home improvement center for a 3rd interview. However, he hasn't been motivated to call back.

What will happen next -- I don't know. It has been mentioned to him (in front of the clinician on Monday) that if he does not seek help, we may indeed have to ask him to leave.

Any prayers you can muster would be welcomed.

Best,
Doll

 

[Star*]

Doll,

My son is 18. He has never been able to sleep at night UNLESS he was so busy during the day that he actually used up his energy and we got him into a set time and schedule. Even now he hates to admit it - but when he works a lot during the day and makes himself use up that ADD energy? He's tired enough to shower, eat and relax - then he sleeps. Otherwise since he's been 8 or so - He's been a night owl.

A really good help for sleeping at night if he just can not sleep is an herbal remedy called Melatonin. There's also a natural remedy called Calms Forte that is pretty good. My Mom had trouble sleeping forever after my Father died and I got her on sub lingual (under the tongue) melatonin. It took about 3 months but she's sleeping much better.

Best of luck with the job- I'm sure he can get it!!!!!!!