We just kicked him out.

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
You set boundaries. He violated you. He made himself homeless, knowing what he was doing. And you don't even know the full extent of what he's up to.

Maybe the FB friend is trouble. I wouldn't worry about it. I found that the world I thought my difficult children lead and their actual worlds were nothing alike. There is a reason the kid's family left him and there is another side to that story that you don't know.

My difficult child could tell a very good story and get a lot of people to feel sorry for him. It wasn't the truth, but it did work.

Hang in there. You're doing good. This is hard for all of us when we go through it. Some personal violations our grown children commit are things that just can't be written off or they get even worse...he stole from you so you spared him the police. If he steals from anyone else, he won't be spared. Let him learn. We give them roots to grown and wings to fly...they decide where to fly.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
He won't sleep on the street. He will find people he can use for a place to stay. There is also a chance he will stop this bs and get a job and get a place of his own. He will start barraging you with guilt trips 1-100 when he realizes you are not going to cave by the weekend. Stand firm or be prepared to go down in flames if you cave.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
He has already started trying the guilt trips. If he would just get on about his life and let us do the same it would still be rough but bearable. I fully expect him to show up either this weekend or by the next at the latest firing with both barrels.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
I am spending a lot of time countering the "you're a bad mother" voices in my head with things I actually do know to be true.

1. He has always known I consider lying to be one of the worst things you can do. When he was little, if he got in trouble, he got punished worse if he lied. (He lied anyway.)
2. He got caught smoking "potpourri" in the house. He took off for a week. He came back, we did counseling. We said, "no drugs". He did it anyway.
3. He knows stealing is wrong. We forgave him when he returned a bag to the store. That was the first. It about killed me. He took off for a week and came back and he said he'd left because he was so ashamed and knew we'd never forgive him. We told him nothing was unforgivable. We gave him a second chance.
4. He stole and pawned things. We gave him a third chance and even sent him off to college.
5. He blew off college and was suspended for failing classes. He sold the computer we helped him buy, the TV, the fridge we bought him. He appealed and got back in. Since we were already paying the room and board regardless, we let him go.
6. He told me he was "keeping it together" and was going to work hard and get a job and go to school. He didn't bother to attend classes and failed his second semester. $9 grand wasted.
7. He pretty much ruined last Christmas, lying about getting us a gift. A little thing, but it hurt.
8. When he came home we gave him one month to get a job. We gave him gas money on his debit card. Turns out he was putting $5 in the tank and getting $15 in cash. He did not look for work. The month ended. We forgave him and gave him more time. He didn't get a job until September. So...what number is that? Forth - fifth chance?
9. We told him the car was for work and back only. He took off to the next town over. Another chance. We got more strict on watching the mileage, but didn't take the car so he could go to work. Of course, he quit after 3 weeks.

He was told when he went to college, if anything else ever went missing we would call the police. He was told when he came back, lying and stealing was not to be tolerated. He lied. He stole. This wasn't $5 for a pack of cigarettes. This was nearly $700 that we took 9 months to save. How many chances do we give? Even after all that, we didn't press charges.

I keep telling myself that he betrayed us. I keep telling myself that the lowest circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno is reserved for betrayers. That this is the worst thing he could do to the only people in the world who wouldn't put him in jail. That he saw how much it hurt us when he did it before, he saw me cry, he saw our pain, and he did it again. I think of all the things that went missing in the last two years, home improvement supplies, the playstation, the guitars (got them back), the archery equipment (got one back), the CD's and DVD's, my gold chains, my mother's engagement ring. He still says he didn't take the jewelry, but then why would he tell the truth? Since he came back, I'd been sure at one point that I had a $20 bill in a box by my bed but when I went to get it, it was gone and I convinced I wasn't sure it had been there. The gas money he got cash for instead was stealing. It was one thing after another after another. All the while we're providing him a roof and a car and cigarettes and buying food only he would eat. Through most of it we were giving him an allowance. Not two weeks ago I bought him a $35 book for D&D. We forgave the smoking pot, the lies, the tantrums and the fists through the door the foul language. He's always apologetic. He's always sorry. He's always going to make up for it.

I know he never means it.

You see, I do know what he's done. I know we weren't wrong. He's had chance after chance after chance to be a decent person, an honest person and he's blown every one. But I still see it getting colder and I still worry about what he's going to do for food and my heart breaks.

Jabber is more worried about what we're going to do when he calls in a week or so and wants to come home. Or he showed up on our door step cold and hungry. Maybe the shelter is full? Maybe it's raining or snowing and he has no coat or boots? How do we turn him away? He's right to worry. That's going to be really, really hard. My plan at the moment is to make him a sandwich and offer him a ride to the homeless shelter if it's raining...if it's dry, he can walk.

I just hope I can stay that strong.
 
Last edited:

GuideMe

Active Member
Wow, Lil. That is a lot of stealing he is doing. It's screaming to me that he is doing a lot of drugs. However, one can never be sure. Do you see purchases of nice clothes and things that otherwise he would never have the money for? It goes without saying, regardless of what its for, I am going to throw a major red flag that, that is an awful lot of stealing, especially for his age. Every drug addict I know steals every type of thing you just mentioned from their family, including air lums , which is THEE worst. My uncle , who is 60 years old now, has been a severe heroin addict for 40 of his years and is the biggest thief in the world. For forty years he has stolen from EVERYBODY and continues until this day. He now has storage's full of things, ALL stolen. STORAGE'S! Yes, PLURAL! My grandparents detached from him over 30 years ago, but in the last 10 years, not only have they accepted him back into their lives, he also moved back in and has been there for the last ten years. Turning my grandparents once immaculate house, into a hoarders dream. From the top of the house, all the way down to the bottom, are packed with items my uncle has stolen, all worth lots of money. Here is a little twist, he is now becoming a hoarder himself and he can't part with the things he has stolen! So they keep piling up and piling up. And he tells my grandparents (and everybody else) that he finds the stuff in the trash or helps people move and they give it to him. Yeah, for instance, he had a brand new laptop and when you opened it, it said Jessica's computer. He said "I just found it in the trash, I can't believe it!". Um yeah. And i know my grandparents know he is lying, and so does everyone else in our family, but they just let him get away with it. I think because all of my grandparents friends died off (my grandparents have outlived ALL of their friends), they were feeling VERY alone and moved my uncle in, again , after decades of not really associating with him. Plus, he helped them around the house being as though they were getting very old. And he was free to do drugs in the house. The spoons were always gone. My grandmother constantly buying new spoons. Oh yeah, my point is, lol, the airlum he stole was something very special that my great grandfather gave to my grandfather and my grandfather treasured it. By the way, My family is not some white trash family either. My grandparents are the epitome of middle class, hard working, millions of friends and family , type of people.

My uncle has been in and out of prison, some very long stints of time in the slammer, and he never changed. He even had the FBI with helicopters chasing him at one point and numerous other very serious things. Don't ask me how, even though he has been caught and tried for many things, he also got away and continues to get away with lots of bad things. The lies that come out of his mouth are amazing. He does not care who it hurts. He is the ultimate liar. Very chilling if you ever see it in action. He is so believable, it's unreal. Oh and by the way, not too long ago, there was a recent chain of home robbery's in my grandparents neighborhood.....hmmm, I wonder who that was? You would think the cops would put two and two together, but they never even bothered to check the neighborhood to see who has a record. All the cops that use to know him, have retired a long time ago. There is loads and loads more that I can tell you, but this is all for now.

If I am out of line by telling you this story, please forgive me. I just had to tell you, and, for others who might come across this board one day.
 
Last edited:

PennyFromTheBlock

Active Member
Oh Lil- I so get it. I went through all those emotions- and would revisit everything my difficult child had done- things that I'd not been willing to admit out loud because I felt so foolish. He'll come back, or text or ask for "just $10" to get something to eat, or "just $10 for a ride somewhere" and "why can't you give me just $10?". I've been there, done that too. I've not laid my eyes on my son in over 2 months, and the only contact we've had is when he calls or texts and wants something FROM me. I've been strong- and said no. ONE time I did get a gas card and put $20 on it for him. That was over a month ago. Not a dime since.

Evidently- they figure out ways to make it. And the lies. Oh the lies. My son STILL when he does text makes it sound DIRE- PLEASE give me money to pay for where I stay or I'll be homeless. What an absolute LIAR. He's shacked up with some girl. I know this because he foolishly continues to put his business on facebook. My son would lie to Jesus himself.

I can say- that while I have my pockets of moments- I have honestly not had this much 'peace' in years. In YEARS AND YEARS. He's grown. He made this bed. He knew what he was doing- and did them anyway. I know and you know and we ALL KNOW we did right by our kids. We weren't perfect, no one is, but we TRIED. THAT, to me, is why all of this hurts so so much.

He will be fine. Or he won't. That's on him- on my son, on all our kids. You will be fine. You have a husband on your side, in your corner. I can't imagine having that.

((hugs))
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Can you believe it? He just called.

He wants to see if he can come talk to us Saturday. I told him I'd talk to Jabber and let him know. I also told him not to ask to come home.

He says he just wants to talk because we never had the chance, etc. He doesn't know what he's going to do. He's says he's trying to apply for jobs when he has access to a computer. I told him the library has free computers. He says he can't leave his stuff someplace where it might get stolen, etc., etc. That he really was trying to get his life together. That he has no one else to talk to. ON and ON and ON!

Jabber's coming home. I guess he and I have to talk. We can't let him come home. I know that. I don't know what to tell him other than no. But he really is so freaking young and immature. I'm sure he doesn't know what he's going to do.

Tried again to tell me it has been a long time since he took the money. BS! We counted it no later than the first week of September! LYING AGAIN!

I truly think this may kill me.
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
husband and I promised each other the last time we kicked difficult child out that neither of us would offer difficult child any help whatsoever unless both of us were in full agreement. My difficult child is pretty savvy about knowing which parent to approach for what. If he has to talk both of us into it, it throws his game off. And if we both agree that a little help is the right thing to do in this instance, we give it with no blame if/when things go awry.

Lil, that's quite a list. How'd you get my list?!?

Hang in there, Lil. Stay strong. I think he is far more capable of finding his way than he is leading you to believe. And if he just wants to talk, maybe do it in a neutral location?
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Young men his age are in the military fighting or at college, living responsible lives and getting good grades. I don't think of eighteen as so young, maybe because my daughter is doing fine. Hard to say.

I agree with GM about the drugs, although I wouldn't have put it so pointedly. I think your son has more problems than just stealing. They steal for a reason and it is usually for ...that reason. I would not allow him in the house unless you want to possibly have illegal stuff in your home and have to lock up every valuable you have. We lived this way once and it is NOT fun. In the end we found what we didn't want to find...the drugs.

Please take good care of yourself and try to see your son as the young man he is today. It could save you a lot of grief in the end and could actually force him to grow up and not break the law. What you have done up until now has not worked. There is no reason to feel that doing the same thing is going to work.

I think you need to talk to him about drugs, if he wants to talk. If he says "Yeah, I smoke pot" push for more information. It sounds to me as if more is going on. If you know what the problem is, as awful as it may be, at least you know what direction to go in, such as a rehab. If you don't know why he is stealing, you can't even make a good suggestion that he can chew on. It hurts to know, but it is more dangerous not to know. by the way, only expect 1/3rd of the truth. But I'd try to get him to choke out why he feels the need to steal. Sounds like you are quite generous with him...and he can't be a dummy. Why would he keep stealing if not for drugs? Makes no sense. And why doesn't he want to work? And did he really hurt his back or did he plan on selling the medication, but got sidetracked. I know, I know. This all hurts. I don't mean for it too...you have to know though. You must find out.

Yes, yes, I know it hurts, but what you don't know will hurt you even more in the long run. What if drugs are found in your house? Are you responsible? We worried about that even when we thought it was only pot. The cops dropped over a few times and searched her room...

I send all this with so much compassion and love. Remember, we went through all this. The River of Denial did not help us.

Guide me, you know a lot about addiction. You need to think about drugs regarding your daughter too. I'm so sorry.
 
Last edited:

GuideMe

Active Member
The only way to know for sure if he is doing drugs is to do a drug test. No one can know for certain until one is taken. People steal for many reasons, not just drugs.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Yes he really hurt his back. No he didn't plan to sell the drugs. If he had, he would have taken them with him. They're still in the house and still full. The only ones worth anything is the flexeril and ultram and they are here. He didn't even take more than one or two.

I called our local homeless shelter. All he needs is an ID and a Social Security card and to pass a background check, which he can since he's never even had a ticket. That's where we'll tell him to go. The feed you and even give you counseling and limited transportation.

These things did go missing over a year and a half...not all at once. But yes, it's scary and it's concerning and I don't really know what to think about it all.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
That's weird, why is my last post waiting for moderator approval?

What I said was:

Yes, he really hurt his back. No, he wasn't planning on selling the drugs, or he would have taken them with him. They're still here.

I called our local homeless shelter and they have openings. All he needs is ID and a Social Security card. They feed them, give them counseling, referrals, even some limited transportation. Right now that's where I plan to tell him to go.
 

GuideMe

Active Member
Here is a little idea if you ever need to use it. If you ever think about letting him come back home in the far future. Tell him he has to take a drug test (one you can buy at walmart). However, don't tell him in advanced. For instance, if you talk to him face to face and he says "can I move back in?", have the drug test ready and say "only if you take this test right now, and one a week for a full month". That is, if you are concerned about it. Just an idea that I am throwing out there.
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
He is really pouring it on. Soon the lies will be more convoluted and almost comical in how absurd they are. My son lied and stole from other people. He did not have access to anything of value in my house. He smoked weed sometimes. His drug of choice was the feeling he got from getting away with robbing a house. When he was arrested, he told the police where to find the stuff. There were ipods and notebooks from 3 different robberies in a duffel bag at an empty house 3 streets from my house. He wasn't a very good thief. He left lots of clues behind.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
MWM, he freely admits he enjoys his herb. Hell, at one point his plan was for him and a friend to buy an old RV and drive to Colorado to be pot farmers. I honestly dont think it anything stronger while I also freely admit I could be wrong. We have tried to talk to him about the drugs before and all we get is a rant about how pot should be legal. We do know he spends a LOT of money on paraphernalia. He still rants every once in a while about the $150 bong that was broken by the people he was staying with after he had to move out of the dorm. I believe a good portion of this is going to new pipes. As far as selling the stuff he had, flexeril isnt exactly a hot ticket item. As a matter of fact, after his oral surgery he had a big bottle of hydrocodone. He only took one dose and ignored it. It sat in the house for months before we took it to the police station to be disposed of.
We both know that he is trying to manipulate us again. Specifically, he is trying to manipulate his mom as she has always been the softer touch. He waited until I was at my guitar lesson (same time and day every week) before he called her. Personally, I see no reason to have him come over to talk on Saturday. He is only going to try to make his mother feel bad in an attempt to get back in the house. I see no reason to see him on neutral ground either. I doubt seriously that he has made any progress in sorting his life out in the last few days. Its not like he would actually listen to any advice we would give him anyway. As for the drug test, since he also likes his synthetic pot that would be useless. Besides, and this truly pains me to say, I dont trust him not to steal from us and dont see how I will be able to trust him any time soon. Sorry, obviously Lil is still on grief and Im working on the anger portion of this experience. Please check me if I start to be too much of an ass.
 

PennyFromTheBlock

Active Member
Lil- isn't it ironic that they will steal from us, but are aware enough to not want THEIR things stolen?

My difficult child was stealing from me/sister/my mother and selling those things on facebook. I asked him why he didn't sell HIS things. "Because I need my shoes, clothes, etc"

It's truly mind blowing.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
I don't know whether to see him or not. I don't want to cut off all communication. But every time he talks to me I fall apart for a while.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
When my daughter used drugs, there was no synthetic pot. I could be wrong about this, Jab, but I believe it is very dangerous. Again, I emphasize, I could be wrong. I don't know for sure what your son is using any more than you do, but he has a lot of signs of drug abuse. Of course, I am one who does not think pot is harmless. Recreational pot use, like once a week, for some people is ok. They can still function at home, at work and manage to life within the law (barring the smoking of weed). Whatever your son is taking, it is important enough to him for him to steal from you, two people I'm sure he loves very much.Unless he has a brand new toy in his room or a new wardrobe or has started taking vacations, there is no other explanation except drugs as to where this money is going. I mean, I can't think of any...of course, I could be incorrect...

My daughter used to steal a little at a time so that I'd think I was crazy. "Where did I put that $20????" "Honey, did you take some money for lunch? I thought I had twenty dollars in the drawer?" That sort of thing. But she sold drugs on the street. Her and friends stole their younger silbings ADHD drugs. They also bought over the counter drugs...they are hot now and the users find various ways to get high with them...don't ask me why. I never used them, have never been drunk in my life, tried pot about eight times with horrible results. So I know pot isn't good for everyone. I would never have had the guts to use synthetic pot, even one time.

I agree that your son doesn't need to come and talk to you and that he will try to con and soft soap your wife. One thing we have to learn, if we want to detach from their drama and learn to go on with our own lives, while helping our grown children drop the Peter Pan Syndrome is to stop letting them talk us blue in the face. My daughter, while on drugs, could stare me straight in the eyes and lie. She is NOT a liar. She doesn't lie now. But she gave me some good advice after she quit. "Mom, never trust a drug user. THEY LIE."

They also get hostile and mean too on certain drugs. And it can mimic mental illness when there really is none. My daughter has no mental health diagnosis now nor any sign of it, but she acted bipolar as all get-go when she was using. She even put her hand through a window once...scared us all to death.

My prayers are with you both. You are a strong couple. I think together you two can do this and help your son launch his life, however his path takes him.It's certainly not easy to do.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
Yeah Sweet, I caught that too. MWM, he has had anger management issues for years and has acted like he was at least mildly bi-polar for as long. And you are correct, the synthetic pot is VERY dangerous. They have documented cases where people smoke it only a few times then months or even a year or two later they just went insane. Its labeled as not for human consumption so there is no kind of regulations or quality control. When we found him stoned in his bedroom he was so messed up he could barely walk. He has commented that sometimes you have to smoke the whole pack just for a slight buzz and other times just a few tokes will knock him for a loop.

Pot is harmless.....to some. Its a long running Corrections argument as to whether or not pot is a gateway drug. I've smoked it before and it was no better than a beer buzz and the beer was legal so I let it be. Granted, at that time I was pretty much a functioning alcoholic. It was right before I got out of the service. Actually, it was a going away party from some of my friends. Point is, if you have an addictive personality it can be a serious problem, if you dont then not so much.
 
Last edited:
Top