Well THIS is new.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Big Bad Kitty, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    So I'm having my usual conversation with Tink this morning about why it is not appropriate to wear a sundress in the first week of March, in Chicago, when it is still 28* outside. And as usual, she is trying to **** me into an argument about why is it OK for the teacher to wear a skirt (ahem, a wool skirt) and she is not (ahem, does the teacher roll around in the snow?). At some point my brain kicks in and I realize that I am being sucked into the argument. So I tell her case closed, go put on some winter clothes. And then she escalates. From 0-60 in no time. Fists clenched, she starts scratching at her face. stomping the ground...I tell her OK, she needs to go chill out in her room.

    She crosses her arms and says, "No." I tell her she needs to go to her room just to calm down a little. She says "I'm a big girl, I don't have to." I remind her that I am still her mother, and she is not too big that I won't kick her :censored2:. She says "then my dad will be mad at you". Which is funny, since HE is the one who hits, not me. I have been known to administer an occasional swat on the bottom. That's about it.

    Anyways, I tell her look, she will be sorry if I stand up. She tells me... "I DARE you." Reminder, she is SEVEN. Now, we've gotten to this point in the past (not with her mouth like this) and when I stand up, she runs. This time I stood up and told her she better get in her room. She tells me "You can't make me!" I walk up to her and swing at her bottom. Now, normally she twists and I get her elbow or the table or something.

    Not this time. She just. stood. there. I connected squarely with her butt. And she still stood there! Telling me that I can't make her go to her room. SO when I dragged/pushed her into her room, she screams that I am a stupid jerk.

    These next eleven years are gonna be loooooooong.....
  2. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Eiyee!!! That was actually the first few signs that my little ex-easy child was really a difficult child! She was about 7 or so and defiance stepped in on her behalf. Then rage attacks...then, well it doesn't matter now, the rest if history.

    Hugs BBK - go polish your armor. :D
  3. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    G*d! Girls are soooo worse than boys at this age. My boys tried standing up to me once or twice and couldn't keep it together. The Bean however, will actually look me in the face and say "didn't hurt" when I take a swat (I rarely connect, I'm more into the "chase scenes" that go on in my house!).

    You're lucky, you've only got 11 years left...I've got 12 and counting!

  4. AprilH

    AprilH Guest

    My son still pushes my buttons like that and he still defies me like your daughter is doing...and he is almost eleven. You are right, the coming years look very long indeed. Sending big hugs your way; and my ex husband (my son's Bio father) is a toad too. With warts on warts!
  5. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    My son decided he did not like his snow boots this year. It was a bad winter, at one point we had over 2 feet of snow. I finally decided if he wanted to have wet cold feet, let him!! There was no danger of frostbite, it was in the upper 20's. He walks maybe 5 -6 blocks to school. At 10 years old he needs some natural cause and effect.
  6. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    I do remember telling her that she could go to school in her pajamas (which was met with "you're so MEAN").

    The GOOD news is, I FINALLY located a neuropsychologist in my state (heck it's even in my county!) that takes Medicaid.

    Doing the happy dance.
  7. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Hon, you do realize that even after you realized that she was sucking you into an argument, she still succeeded, right? If she can get you to argue with her then she still hasn't gone to her room. I can't tell you how many times I had to bite my tongue just standing there pointing in the direction of her room and repeating, "Go. Now. I said, Now.", in response to the 'you can't make me's and the 'what are you going to do if I don't go's'.

    Hang in there. ((((hugs))))
  8. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    BBK, truly....maybe she's hot-blooded. My difficult child has HOT skin ALL the time, despite the temp inside or out. He just doesn't get cold. We were living in northern MO when he was about 7. It snowed like you can only imagine and he wanted to shovel. Ok, I said. He went out in sweatpants, no shoes OR socks, and without a shirt. I took pictures because I couldn't believe my eyes. Since that day I don't make him wear coats or gloves or any kind of warm clothing. He's on his own...he knows if he's cold, or not. Let's see, I guess I call that Basket C!!!!
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    My daughter loved to wear dresses to school. It could be -20 and she'd want to wear a dress. No problem -- dress with sweats or tights underneath. If she didn't want the sweats or tights, her problem. I'd simply remind her she would be cold and her teacher wouldn't let her play outside at recess. Her choice. I really do love natural consequences.

    I'd get the big girl schtick every so often. I didn't argue. I simply went to her room and started packing up her toys, little girl dresses, dress up clothes -- anything for a little girl. When she'd ask why, I'd explain these were all for little girls and if she was a big girl, they'd have to be put up. Of course, if she wasn't quite sure she was really a big girl yet, I'd be happy to leave her things out. Stopped several arguments.

    I truly hated the you can't make me arguments. Of course I could. I was bigger and stronger but I didn't want to teach her that bullying was the way to go. Of course, there were times when there was absolutely no choice but to be bigger and stronger because it was safety and/or health issues. For the others, I'd simply tell her I could make her but I wouldn't. I would then tell her what the result of her choice would be (inappropriate dress = being cold and no recess time; no dinner = hungry later; no doing her chores = no tv, park or play time until they were done; etc.). Other times, the result would be a restriction. Sadly, those rarely worked in our house. She'd take any consequence or restriction to get her way at any given moment. Being given the choice to do as she wanted with bad results or do something appropriate with rewards usually worked much better.

    I'm sorry you're going through this. I know how miserable it is. Worse yet, the battles keep escalating and every time you lose your temper, she thinks she's won. It's a vicious circle. been there done that until I opted for natural consequences.
  10. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Oh yeah? Well i'm going to call my DAD!....

    and i think...."call him what?"

    Leme attem.....leme attem.

    Sending polish for that armor....and a few good rags - (I used matts sunday best)

    Secret pal [not happy] with sasssssssy girls behavior.
  11. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    I know you all are right. She sucked me in and I let her. Argh.

    Seriously though, just last night I found this neuropsychologist. I called today, they emailed me a questionnaire, I filled it out and just emailed it back.

    This could be the start of something GRAND.
  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    She Got You. Into. The. Argument. (Consider ALLLL that loose cat hair Hoovered off! - saves our BBK from a hairball!)

    What will happen if she wears a sundress to school in the cold? Personally, my son went to school a week before Christmas in shorts. Not MY problem. And his school is wonderful at telling the kids NOT to come dressed like that and complain they are cold.

    My rule is that I "might" make a suggestion, but if they don't follow it, I WILL NOT listen to the cold's, hots, itchies, or other complaints. They have all got enough clean, fitting, comfortable clothing on Sunday night.

    I have been known to stick fingers in my ear. Or go deaf, which means I don't hear anything they say (well I do, but I pretend I don't.) and that means that I can't hear responses to things like What do you want for dinner?. It means that I get ALL the choices, because I can't hear them for quite a while after I go deaf. Takes them all a while to figure it out.

    You need to brush up on Explosive Child. Tink is really going to eat your lunch with the Can't Make Mes (she has been doing this for a while), and the hitting is going to end up iwth her either bullying others, or when she is larger and more physically fit, bullying YOU. It is not a good position, the one she is maneuvering you into.

    Our kiddoes are GREAT and this kind of manipulation.

    Heck, maybe you can find some leg warmers (like from the 80's) at a dancewear place or ebay. Let her wear them with the dress.

    If school won't let her go out to play, or has other problems, let THEM enforce it.

    on the other hand, box up all the out of season stuff when she is gone. No sundresses in sight, can't find them, might help.

    I also like the OK, you are a big girl, then toys, games, videos, etc... get boxed up. It may be a shock, and DON'T say it if you will not do it.

    Sorry it was so tough. My mom fights with thank you over his clothes almost every time she wants to take him somewhere. Socks, shorts, long/short sleeves, this coat or that one, he knows the rules. He knows he will be cold or hot. He does run hot, but still. I have told her I wont' fight that battle. If she wants to, it is THEIR relationship, not mine and his. (She thinks I am nuts for not pushing this, but With difficult child we went through so much, it really gave a better guage for what is essential, desired, or just irrelevant to me as a parent).

    Anyway, we all end up being hoovered, at least YOU can get rid of cat hair. I just get that hair-styled-in-a-windtunnel effect.


  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Susie's got it in one. Let her wear what she wants. make your suggestion, if she ignores it then she will be cold. But if you let it escalate to the point where she will feel she HAS to oppose you on principle, it will be much harder for her to come in later and say, "You were right, it IS too cold out there, I need my coat." And she will put up with it and shiver far more, just to prove you wrong. Not healthy.

    So next time - let her put on her dress then go outside and see how it feels. Then tell her it is her choice, but most people, including her friends, will not be impressed if she's shivering too much to be much fun company.

    As for "go to your room" - when it stopped working, we stopped doing it. If you have to drag the kid there and t hey come out of their room right away, it's no longer working.

    What you could do instead, especially as you suddenly discover this isn't working, is to say, "You won't go to your room? Then I will!" And go to your room, shut yourself in and refuse to engage.

    Or, to really twist the knife - go to HER room and shut her out, then begin to make sounds as if loudly cleaning the room (and finding all sorts of stuff she doesn't want unearthed). I'm betting that will have her pounding on the door to be allowed into her room. At which point, you have won, and got her into her room.

    Now what? From here, it's up to you. We don't send to rooms any more, we just say, go somewhere quit and chill. and if they won't, then I walk out of the house and away from the argument entirely. I might go visit a friend and cry on a shoulder. And when I finally go back home, maybe after they've all supposed to have had dinner only nobody was there to get it for them, then I can assume the kid has chilled. Or been squashed by everyone else.

    It's when you're not there that they realise they need you more than they care to admit.

  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    At 13 if my child insisted on wearing a sundress when it's 20 degrees outside, I would let them deal with the consequences. But, not at the age of 7. At that age, they don't fully understand just how cold and miserable - and potentially dangerous - it can be. I let almost anything else go when it comes to clothes, but I wouldn't let my 7 year old child wear a sundress in 20 degree weather. I just wouldn't.

    I would offer alternatives, but that would stop at the 'you can't make me' remark and she would end up wearing what I told her to wear or she would go to school in her jammies. I'm not authoritarian, but not everything is up for discussion either.

    I like natural consequences, but it can be taken too far. At some point, children have to learn that sometimes you just have to do things because that's the way the world works. Most people in the world are not going to tolerate that kind of behavior. And 'natural consequences' in this instance - aside from being cold - aren't really natural; it's letting the school enforce the rules rather than the parent.
  15. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    by the way, BBK - Way To Go on finding a neuropsychologist. Keep us posted on the progress.
  16. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    BBK, this is what happened with me and my difficult child. I dug my feet in just as much as she did, because - well I was the parent and she was going to do as I said!

    It NEVER worked that way. It does not mean she calls the shots. It means you have to get creative with your parenting and be prepared. Try to make things fun - even when you are not liking her at the moment or in a mood of your own (we all have them, ya know!). To me this was the hardest thing. But, it has made such a difference.
    Be ready for whatever she can deal out. Always start out taking a deep breathe. Try to envision where it is going.

    Not digging your feet in, will help so much. Just imagine if you told her you would be willing to let her pack the skirt up so she could change at school as long as she promised to change back before getting on the bus to head home.
    You could phone the teacher and give her a heads up. That way she can plan that when Tink asks she can tell her 'after blank she can change'. It can work. It does not mean they are getting their way all the time. They are learning to compromise and seeing that people around them like to do things that make her happy.

    You really don't care if she wears the skirt at school. You just don't want her outside with it on.
  17. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Good ideas and suggestions, all of them.

    As always!

    Thank you all for your input. I really love this board~~
  18. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I just got a new book that is supposed to have cassettes - NOT....but it's called LETS FIX THE KIDS.....and guess what the first 3 pages are about?

    Finding you triggers and shutting them down to avoid arguments.

    I mean - Should I copy this or paste it here or send it to you ? I just keep thinking at this point the only thing I can continue to do is improve ME and how I relate to others. So if there is a trigger - and I can recognize it - I am better off.

    When I get a minute I'll do a post about it if you like.
  19. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Star, please post that. I really need a trigger guard.
  20. mellie1961

    mellie1961 New Member

    Today I discovered a GOLD MINE! I have been searching for a local support group, and this one came up. I am so impressed with everyone's experience and helpfulness. I am a bit lost as to some of the acronyms. My daughter is 12 now and her disrespect and mouth started when she was about 5, I am now at the end of my rope. She comes home from school every day in a mood to fight. She has ODD/ADD/Depression. Her birth mother has a string of MH diagnosis, so some of this is heredity. I have no place to go to get away from her, nor she to get away from here. I refuse to reward her by letting her go to her BFF, just to end the conflict. She was recently in the youth MH hospital and she loved it. Playing basketball, talking to her new "best friends" that taught her more bad than she knew when she went in. She played slice nad dice on her arms the day after she got home, something she always thought was stupid. "You can't make me" is an auto response. She is physically abusive to me and on and on. On Concerta and Prozac. I have been giving her benadryl about 6:30 pm to ward off the wearing off of the concerta. I could write a book, as I am sure most parents could. I am hoping to find some coping skills for myself. Thank you everyone for this site.