Well, Well, Well...

[klmno]

in my humble opinion, what are are describing about H and his family is not mental illness like people typically define it. It is a very dysfunctional/codependent family. It would take a therapist specially trained in this to be able to help husband because he will never be able to realize it this way. That's just my 2 cents. LOL!

 

[BusynMember]

Wsm, I feel for you. But I think you know husband isn't going to suddenly become the man he should be. It will never happen. He is mommy's wittle boy and she comes first. You aren't on his list because he is more interested in pleasing HER and HER relatives than you. You aren't even on the radar. He is so tied into his sick web that he doesn't even know how to be normal. I'm not sure you can save SD even if you stay. Believe me when I say, without you or husband knowing it, this boy could have and may have sexually abused her. Sexual abuse victims NEVER TELL ANYONE. THey are too ashamed and too terrified. The best thing that you can do for her in my opinion is to get her out of that nuthouse.
That "we never tell/trust outsiders" is to cover up abuse. It's beyond sick.

I hope for your sake you do get out. You aren't getting any younger. You are still bright and deserve a life. Your life is not to save this sick family. It's not going to be within your control. I would contact a lawyer in secret to find out if there is anything you can do for your stepdaughter. If he is not protecting her, and you are the only mother she ever knew, you may have rights that you don't even know about.

I hope you do have the life you deserve one day. This is one of the worst situations I've ever read about on the board. Sadly, you married into a psychiatric center with everyone shutting out the world and denying everything. in my opinion husband is a sick man too. He isn't responsible for his mother's happiness. SHE IS. If he doesn't get that by his 40's, he never will.

Good luck.

 

[gcvmom]

I know nothing about family law, but is there any chance you could file for some sort of protective custody of SD?

 

[Marguerite]

I believe WSM has already looked into this. It's always worth staying in touch with possibilities, however.

Im wondering - would sending difficult child to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) now, 'call of the dogs' with the legal system, or at least encourage a judge to simply mandate what is alreayd in place, as an anterlative to putting him into juvie? If husband could be persuaded thta making the call to send difficult child ti Residential Treatment Center (RTC) now is giving him his best chance of "beating the system" it not only will give you the chance of some sanity now, but it could be difficult child's best chance. Certainly is seems SD's best chance.

In a few years' time she will be old enough to have choice, surely?

Marg

 

[WSM]

husband got the police report. The officer writes: "I was dispatched to an anonymous tip that a with-m juvenile named difficult child was selling white pills at summer camp. Made contact with gfgat XCY and told difficult child why I was here. difficult child removed 5 white capsule type pills from his pocket labeled 'alza 36' Concerta I later learned the pills are for ADHD. difficult child stated the pills were planted in his pocket by someone and that he didn't know where they came from. difficult child clearly appeared upset and visiblys shaken by my presence. I asked difficult child if he took medicine at home and he said 'no'. difficult child provided me a number for husband name who responded to the school.

"Mr husband stated thate difficult child has behavior problems and attended a military school. Approximately one month ago difficult child came home from school with several unknown pills that he stated someone planted into his pants pockets. Mr husband took what difficult child had and destroyed them. I showed him the five pills difficult child had and Mr husband said they were the same pills that difficult child brought home from the military school. Mr husband states difficult child takes medication but nothing to do with ADHD. XYZ camp director asked that difficult child be removed from the school for the rest of the day. The five concerta pills were impounded receipted and placed into evidence. A juvenile transcript was completed as a not-in-custody with the recommendation of this writer that difficult child attend a diversion or civil citation program."

A couple notes about this:

husband said the cops told him that he didn't think difficult child did it, that they were likely planted and he should 'look' inside his own house for answers, ie, the officer did not believe difficult child did it. This is not the impression anyone gets from reading this, I don't think.

I asked husband later if he'd told the officer about difficult child's other felonies. Of course not. So the guy made the recommendation based on the fact he saw a scared looking little 12 year old infront of him.

Secondly, the name difficult child gave the police for his father was a diminutive of his real name. For example, if husband's name is Michael, and husband is called Mike, difficult child gave the police the name Mikey. The police refers to husband as Mikey in the report. Nobody ever calls husband by this name.

Thirdly, husband told me that the police found the drugs in difficult child's pockets, but the report says that the police asked him about it and difficult child pulled them out of his pocket. difficult child knew they were there. difficult child apparently didn't say, "Drugs, what drugs?" Nope, he pulled them out of his pocket and gave them to the police.

Finally, the police asked difficult child if he took medicine at home and difficult child said no. But difficult child takes drugs: lexapro and risperdal, twice a day. difficult child lied.

So that's one update.

 

[WSM]

Second update:

Another letter from difficult child:

Dear dad, I love you and I miss you but why couldn't you have told me that it was a boot camp and I was going to get my hair cut? "

Then a smiley face with an arrow to a frowny face. Then there was a picture of him a large heart then a picture of dad. Then an arrow down to another picture of him next to a frowny face and the word 'miss' and a picture of dad.

Then under that a very large picture of a 3 demensional heart with an arrow through it and the point of the arrow stabbing something that might be an eye or might be a circle with a sunburst in it.

 

[WSM]

Third update:

The CPS lady came this morning to get husband to sign a paper releasing all difficult child's medical and psychiatric records to her. husband asked her if she knew about the charges. She did and she supports them. She asked him what he was going to do. He said he'd been researching and wanted to ask the court for a child in need of services petition to ask for him to get some kind of services (but CHINS petitions only put the child under court jurisdiction for 14 days--and are not eligible for kids in the court system).

CPS lady told husband it was too late for that. He asked her what he should do. She told him: 'nothing'. He got himself into this, he could get himself out. The judge will ask him what happened and let him work it out.

husband said that the court has never asked him before, they'd always talked to him. She said, "They will this time." And said this was serious. He'd moved to the next level: drugs. Most kids at didn't get to this stage until age 14--and difficult child was only going to get worse, and she said, difficult child was going to drag husband and me and the rest of the family down with him.

husband listened. She said, step back and let him deal with it. Explain what pleading guilty, not guilty and no contest means. If the court insists he get a lawyer, make him get a court appted one. She thinks he will plead not guilty and that he will be found guilty. She didn't say what she thought the penalty will be.

husband is going to follow her advice, but he's devastated. "I'm kicking my son out at age 12." (husband does a lot of all or nothing thinking). I pointed out he's not being kicked to the curb, but if he wants to make adult decisions to do drugs, he gets to deal with the adult consequences. He's only being left on his own about this. But husband feels like ****, however, it looks like he's going to do the right thing.

 

[BusynMember]

Sounds like whatever he does he kid is in deep trouble this time. Did husband really think he and his son would be able to dupe everyone forever?

 

[WSM]

Did husband really think he and his son would be able to dupe everyone forever?

Yep.

I think difficult child is looking at time in Juvenile. Per various websites, the average stay for kids in juvvie is 4 months in our state. Would a 12 year old get that?

I wonder if he could be put into a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for a longer time? I believe there is only a very small window of opportunity to turn difficult child around, juvvie probably won't do it (unless the shock value is enough), but maybe a year or a year and a half of an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would do it. THerapists and a controlled environment.

However, it's out of my hands too. Although I will be there with my evidence in court anyway.

The CPS lady also said that husband will have to testify against difficult child because husband saw difficult child with the drugs. husband is upset about that but said he'd do it (like he has a choice?). But he said it's the right thing to do.

 

[BusynMember]

I agree that juvy won't help him. It's too bad they don't think Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Apparently though they think he is a young criminal and not mentally ill. From your description of him, I don't know that he can be helped, but I do think he should have intensive psychiatric evaluations. The family history is just horrendous.

Update us on what happens in court.

 

[crabby erin]

I would think that after a few days in jubie (as my son calls it), staff would realize there is more going on and a psychiatric evaluation would be done. Then maybe he'd get moved to PRTF. However, that would be in a perfect world...

Once the courts are involved, at this age, I think Dad would have no say in it. Control needs to be removed from dad in my opinion anyway. Not sure what his deal is... Some parents are so concerned with their child being "normal" they refuse to help them/see. My friend was married to a guy with a child with similar behaviors - he refused to believe anything was wrong...needless to say they are divorced, the child is grown and apparently still being bailed out of every situation he gets in by dad.

Maybe this situation will be what it takes for difficult child to get help?? ((hopeful))

 

[susiestar]

WOW! So much has gone on. Sending Raoul around to your place for a nice massage or six! You could certainly use the massage to de-stress!

I have always been very amazed at how convoluted some families make these situations. Your husband is setting records for most convoluted thought processes, in my opinion.

I hope that somehow a good resolution comes from this mess. Maybe you and the people in the marriage group therapy can encourage your husband to get some long term therapy and help.

I want to say that if there had been an abandoned drug house in our neighborhood while I was growing up my brother and older cousin would most certainly have spent lots of time there - even though my parents would have sworn they didn't. At ages 11-14 the boys LOVED finding places to hang out that no parents were at.

I think you have weathered all of these storms wonderfully. The sheer magnitude of the mental illness is shocking. I hope and pray that whatever happens, everyone gets the help they need.

sending super gentle hugs to wrap around you, your kids and stepdau like a protective cloud.

 

[Lori4ever]

been there done that. One thing that could help is to try to get the Judge to work with you in involving the school district. If you get an IEP going, he could get into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) through them. My story is eerily similar to yours, even with the same ages and felonies. He was finally sent to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Juvenile hall will not help a child with problems such as these. I hope they see this. I'm so sorry for your family.

 

[graceupongrace]

and difficult child was only going to get worse, and she said, difficult child was going to drag husband and me and the rest of the family down with him.

It sounds as if husband is getting a big reality check.

I'm sorry it had to reach this point for that to happen. But he's seeing that the rest of the world doesn't want to play along with difficult child.

Sending big hugs your way.

 

[WSM]

husband is backsliding. Court is on Monday and he spent last night researching his options. Came to bed at 2 am and woke me up and I was annoyed and couldn't get back to sleep and bugged him so he couldn't sleep, so we are really peeved with each other.

Spent all evening looking into options, printed off things that he said really scared him about difficult child being declared a delinquent. I read them and they didn't sound so bad. If he's declared a delinquent they can take custody of him, put him into a treatment/modification plan under CPS/DFC jurisdiction and if difficult child does well, they will wipe his legal slate clean. That's not ruining his future, that's giving difficult child a chance to perform and change and erase his history. I asked husband to show me what in the printout worried him and he snatched it out of my hands and stomped off exasperatedly.

Okay, fine, go before the judge and excuse and beg and promote how pitiful difficult child is with the hopes the judge will release him back to you, the person who let difficult child get to the point he has now a FOURTH felony by age 12 and a half. I don't think the judge is going to do that. But if husband wants to ruin what little credibility he and difficult child have left with the court, go ahead and try. But don't complain when it doesn't work and the judge dismisses you and doesn't factor in your second choice (after releasing difficult child back to his dad's custody which is husband's first choice), of putting him in a short term Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Annoy the judge enough and he'll dump difficult child in Juvvy with all the gang members and drug dealers. Yeah, just go ahead and show the judge how clueless you are.

To be fair husband says he doesn't have a strategy and doesn't know what he's going to do on Monday. He says he's just really anxious and wound up about it. I am sorry husband is upset, but let's face it...this is the 4th time this has happened in 2 and a half years. And it's only one more in what is going to be a long, long line of court hearings in difficult child's life. I know it sounds callous and I'm not in charge of anyone else's feelings, but maybe it's time to disengage a bit, this is getting routine, not a crisis. The CPS lady who we found out yesterday will be testifying and advising the judge says husband needs to step back and let difficult child handle the consequences himself. She said that difficult child is a sociopath. She is going to talk to the therapist who I've heard say thinks difficult child should be in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and is very, very disturbed, and to the psychiatrist who thinks (per husband) that difficult child might be getting a bum rush but has rx'ed an antipsychotic anyway. Judges around here rely heavily on these referrals. I know she's going to recommend difficult child be removed from the home.

husband says he's going to talk to her again today.

I'm also annoyed at husband because he was also researching about how to find out who reported him to CPS. If he thinks it's a malicious reporting he can request an investigation and then if the reporter is found to malicious or the report without merit, it can be prosecuted. husband wants to do this. I pointed out that the things the reporter said in their report were true: difficult child is roaming the streets at night, he does steal, he does pour syrup around the room in the middle of the night, daughter has been told not to tell anyone the 'family' business (she was told again just recently since the CPS lady came), she was told not to tell me what difficult child was doing only to tell daddy and she has gotten yelled at when she told dad. difficult child does steal knives and stab things, difficult child does break her toys and throw them away. The reporter was only telling the truth--AND--when the CPS lady has been here we have ADMITTED that difficult child does these things. There may be no truth to the accusation that he is neglectful as in the legal definition, but there's also no doubt that whoever reported it did so because they thought they had important information. The police are not going to punish the reporter. husband is focusing on the wrong thing, here. IF difficult child had behaved himself there would be nothing to report at all.

So he's backsliding. I hope the CPS lady sets him straight today.

 

[WSM]

been there done that. My story is eerily similar to yours, even with the same ages and felonies. He was finally sent to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Juvenile .

I don't know your story, but I'd like to hear more about it. What happened? How did you survive as a family? What's he doing now?

 

[gcvmom]

Yup. He's backsliding alright. He's panicking and he's looking (again) for someone else to blame.

You are wise to just step back and let the situation run its course. At least there is the potential for difficult child to get help out of this situation, and hopefully his dad won't blow it in his frantic desire to salvage his ego and avoid dealing with reality.

((((Hugs))))

 

[mstang67chic]

I don't understand it completely but I can see where a parent can be in denial. However, even with the brainwashing your husband got from HIS mother, does he honestly think that difficult child will just somehow grow out of this twisted, violent and dangerous behavior? I feel bad for difficult child because I can't imagine having those thoughts and feelings but at the same time, he's learned that Daddy will protect him from consequences. Does husband not realize what this kid will be like when he grows up if he doesn't get help five years ago??? No one wants to think/admit that their child is that disturbed but this kid is DANGEROUS.

Maybe (I know....big maybe) if husband is confronted with information on what kind of a future this kid is facing without treatment, MAYBE he'll get a clue. From what you've said about him though, I think it's going to take a HUGE shock of some sort to get husband to understand. This isn't about embarrassing the family. This is about saving difficult child's life and quite possibly the lives of others.

I agree that husband is in need of some serious therapy for himself because of how he was raised but I think the most pressing thing at the moment is to get him clued in on difficult child. I wish there was some easy button to push for this. No one should have to live like you do or live like ANY of you do.

Hugs. I wish I knew what to do to help.

 

[WSM]

been there done that. My story is eerily similar to yours, even with the same ages and felonies. He was finally sent to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Juvenile .

I don't know your story, but I'd like to hear more about it. What happened? How did you survive as a family? What's he doing now?

 

[WSM]

It's a roller coaster. He's flipflopped again.

Last night he was collecting up all the police reports, psychiatric assessments, old numbers for probation officers, counselors, and schools. Most of which is damning to difficult child. He asked for my log. He's resigned that the matter is out of his hands and difficult child is probably going to be sent away. He wants it to be Residential Treatment Center (RTC) not juvvy (as do I). He says he feels terrible about it, that he's such a bad father the state is taking him away--and it's especially hard because he fought so hard in court for custody when difficult child was 3 and a half. He's worried they'll think he's a bad father and take stepdaughter as well and he'd be devastated.

He also said it seems pretty clear that the CPS lady is going to recommend removal from the home (I said, "You'll get him back, it's probably not going to be for the rest of his childhood. Only 4-6 months or at most 18 months, and there are visit, phone calls, holidays", but as husband says, that's not the point, and I guess he's right.). He also said it was clear that therapist's opinion will play a role in what happens, and to quote husband: "And you know what his opinion will be", ie, difficult child is very, very disturbed and needs immediate and intensive treatment and should be in a residential facility. husband is making no attempt to convince anyone that the therapist believes that some of this is not difficult child's doing, like he tried at the beginning of the summer.

We are going to Orlando tonight and will spend tonight and Saturday and Sunday morning doing Orlando fun things. At 2 we will pick up difficult child from camp, watch his grad ceremonies, and take him home. The other kids are going to be returning in a different car since they don't want to go to the ceremony and would rather spend Sunday in a Disney park. That means husband, difficult child and I will be driving home alone. husband intends to hand the police report and delinquency petition to difficult child and ask him how he wants to handle his problem. And we will have the 3 hour drive home to discuss it with him.

Monday morning is court.