Well...
- Thread starter Shari
- Start date
smallworld
Moderator
Conflicting advice from whom about what?
Why alone? I thought you had an advocate.
Why Intuniv?
Why alone? I thought you had an advocate.
Why Intuniv?
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Docs & therapists vs advocate.
Advocate says they'll push homebound. Says to accept it and "play the game". Docs and therapists say no, do not sign off on homebound.
Adv. has a conflicting meeting that day. Same one we had before. She says my plan of attack is valid and she's ok with sending me without her.
And docs, as usual, want to throw medications at the problem. Intuniv is the next choice. I won't want to do more medications, but I feel pretty much cornered on the issue.
Advocate says they'll push homebound. Says to accept it and "play the game". Docs and therapists say no, do not sign off on homebound.
Adv. has a conflicting meeting that day. Same one we had before. She says my plan of attack is valid and she's ok with sending me without her.
And docs, as usual, want to throw medications at the problem. Intuniv is the next choice. I won't want to do more medications, but I feel pretty much cornered on the issue.
smallworld
Moderator
I think you need a new advocate. I would not agree to homebound. It is not meeting FAPE in LRE.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I wont agree to it.
If that's what they push, I will refuse and hash it out with the adv. later.
Based on conversation with sped dir today, too, I may have to argue that his behaviors are a manifestation of his disability, too. I hope not, but she just said some things that make me wonder.
I am not looking forward to this.
If that's what they push, I will refuse and hash it out with the adv. later.
Based on conversation with sped dir today, too, I may have to argue that his behaviors are a manifestation of his disability, too. I hope not, but she just said some things that make me wonder.
I am not looking forward to this.
klmno
Active Member
Shari- one good point to make is that general poluation/mainstream school is the most LRE possible; homebound is the most restrictive possible. The Special Education attny I consulted with before told me to always make the point if mainstream is not an option (and you, yourself, reach a point of giving up on it- with or without Special Education classes in a mainstream school), the sd needs to find the next LRE that is a step away from a mainstream school, not jump automatically to the most restrictive placement possible- homebound.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Good point, KLMNO.
This was just the advocate's thoughts on what will happen. I hope she's wrong, but need to be prepared.
More worried, now, about them trying to say its not his disability. She said today that he's unpredicatable and his outbursts are random (which I will argue), and that he might refuse to do work that he just sailed thru the previous afternoon...(which IS part of his disability...his working memory is almost non-existent. Heck, he doesn't even know the alphabet correctly or how to tie his shoes right now.)
This was just the advocate's thoughts on what will happen. I hope she's wrong, but need to be prepared.
More worried, now, about them trying to say its not his disability. She said today that he's unpredicatable and his outbursts are random (which I will argue), and that he might refuse to do work that he just sailed thru the previous afternoon...(which IS part of his disability...his working memory is almost non-existent. Heck, he doesn't even know the alphabet correctly or how to tie his shoes right now.)
jannie
trying to survive....
It is disappointing that your team is not "together" on a plan. I do think you need a different advocate as this one does not seem to be doing his/her job. You may want to let them know in the meeting that you feel your child requires special education intervention and direct instruction throughout the day by a special educator....this will requires that there is special education support all day; most likely in a small group setting...
In regards to intuniv...both of my boys are on it right now. My older son seems to be resopnding well to it; he's been on it for about one month...My younger son has been on it for about four months...and I don't think it is helping. I actually called the doctor about discontinuing it.
In regards to intuniv...both of my boys are on it right now. My older son seems to be resopnding well to it; he's been on it for about one month...My younger son has been on it for about four months...and I don't think it is helping. I actually called the doctor about discontinuing it.
confuzzled
Member
what credentials does this advocate have?
you might be surprised to find out she has little, if any, more than you do. maybe she has a few "training" seminars under her belt. unless she was just preparing you for the worst possible outcome--she's pretty out there. the advice to "play their game" is astounding to me....how could that possibly be in anyones best interest?
while i'm a huge fan of advocacy, and there are certainly some excellent, credentialed AND non credentialed ones out there...there are also a lot that arent all that. i cant speak for all states, but at least in mine pretty much anyone can call themselves an advocate...even those actually affiliated with "advocacy organizations".
i still really think there needs to be a lawyer involved who has a good grasp of spEd law--this isnt a game.
as others have said, there are umpteen alternatives between LRE and MRE (homebound)....unless for some reason homebound is the outcome you are hoping for.
hope the new medication helps--i know its scary, but there must be a reason the doctor wrote for it.
you might be surprised to find out she has little, if any, more than you do. maybe she has a few "training" seminars under her belt. unless she was just preparing you for the worst possible outcome--she's pretty out there. the advice to "play their game" is astounding to me....how could that possibly be in anyones best interest?
while i'm a huge fan of advocacy, and there are certainly some excellent, credentialed AND non credentialed ones out there...there are also a lot that arent all that. i cant speak for all states, but at least in mine pretty much anyone can call themselves an advocate...even those actually affiliated with "advocacy organizations".
i still really think there needs to be a lawyer involved who has a good grasp of spEd law--this isnt a game.
as others have said, there are umpteen alternatives between LRE and MRE (homebound)....unless for some reason homebound is the outcome you are hoping for.
hope the new medication helps--i know its scary, but there must be a reason the doctor wrote for it.
M
ML
Guest
Just wishing you good luck and to remind you that you will have the power of the board with you.
Last edited:
Marguerite
Active Member
"Play their game"?
What I would advise, at most, is to work with them as far as you can, without compromising your son's needs. But when they have clearly been breaching the terms of the IEP and don't even seem to understand what is required of them, "play their game" sounds to me to be setting you up for more of the same.
Not all advocates are good at really advocating. I went in to a Learning Team meeting for difficult child 3, I knew it was likely to be difficult because the District Special Education person had indicated she wanted to cut difficult child 3's funding. We were banging our heads against the wall and the school was doing a lot of things wrong (not telling me about a lot of them) so I took along a friend who was a SpEd teacher at another school. My friend knew difficult child 3 from birth, knew his history and had at times been very vocal about what sort of support he needed. But because she was an official DeptEd employee, in the face of having to contradict someone more senior to her, she simply caved and played the "let's all be nice to one another" card. I felt badly let down at a time I desperately needed someone with a backbone to support me. It was on the steps after that meeting, that the District SpEd official told me she would exercise her right of veto AGAIN and continually, if/when I applied yet again to transfer difficult child 3 into correspondence. Her reason - "he is autistic. Therefore he must be in mainstream."
Even though correspondence was developed for exactly the situation we were dealing with! And my friend the alleged advocate, let her say this and did not respond. It took me another 18 months of trying to find loopholes, before we finally got difficult child 3 transferred.
My friend the SpEd teacher - she's a good friend in every other way; but I realised that I had asked her to divide her loyalties and she just wasn't up to the task.
I have another good friend, difficult child 3's godmother. She comes across as a very strong person, with strong opinions. But I have seen with her also - if there is conflict, she caves.
it's funny - if you asked either of them, they would tell you that I am in need of their professional guidance at times, because sometimes I seem unsure of myself or perhaps (conversely) I charge in without looking first. But I know, from my own record (which I have to rely on as my own advocate) that when I start something, I have to be prepared to follow it through and not give up halfway. Even if I eventually compromise and form some sort of agreement, it needs to be done as an active decision and not simply "I can't fight them any more" response.
Shari, your advocate sounds like she either doesn't fully understand your issues, or she is really distressed at the possibility of confrontation even when it's necessary.
Some people become advocates because they are peacemakers and don't like conflict. And in a lot of cases, that is what is needed - some parents are rabidly defensive of their children, blindly so, and not willing to consider that their child needs some sort of help which could be to everyone's benefit. Your advocate is probably brilliant in such cases. But an advocate has to be broader in their approach and understanding and too often, they can't handle it if it has to get really intense.
What has helped me the most (in terms of my approach) is to be strong, but also pro-active. I urge the school to be proactive also. I cut the situation down to basics and summarise - "We have discussed X and Y, we now have to consider how to respond to these. What has been suggested is G and J, how are these to be implemented? Now, given my understanding of this child, can you assure me that in your plans to implement G or J, you can ensure that K and M won't happen?"
I also continue with, "here is what I want. How can you provide this, within your own scope?"
I will work with them, but to assist them to give me what I want for my child.
The trouble is, schools were never designed to have to cope with kids like ours. Older teachers especially resent this and will tend to be oppositional about having to accept this responsibility. I find I need to address this oppositionality first by saying, "I know you didn't sign up for this when you undertook teacher training; I didn't sign up for having a kid with problems. But we're both in this situation so let's work together to help one another reach the best outcome possible for all concerned, especially this child."
You may well find they keep flicking back to, "We shouldn't be having to do this."
That's when I quote our (former) Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser, who said, "Life wasn't meant to be easy."
The best answer - "I wish we didn't have to do this either. But if we don't, it makes our lives more difficult. If you want to keep beating your head against a wall, go ahead. I'm trying to work with you to take a step back so we can see the doorway that we can go through and save hurting our heads."
Basically, you have to keep saying - "We're here. This is the problem. This child is not being difficult on purpose. He can do it some days and not others. We can't always expect to understand exactly why, because humans are complex creatures. So forget the, 'he shouldn't be reacting this way' and let's get on with, 'but he is, so here's what we will do to help him,' and make everybody's lives a whole lot easier."
Keep pushing the "We all need to work together on this," and eventually hopefully it will sink in.
Be strong. Sounds like you're the only strong one in this.
Marg
What I would advise, at most, is to work with them as far as you can, without compromising your son's needs. But when they have clearly been breaching the terms of the IEP and don't even seem to understand what is required of them, "play their game" sounds to me to be setting you up for more of the same.
Not all advocates are good at really advocating. I went in to a Learning Team meeting for difficult child 3, I knew it was likely to be difficult because the District Special Education person had indicated she wanted to cut difficult child 3's funding. We were banging our heads against the wall and the school was doing a lot of things wrong (not telling me about a lot of them) so I took along a friend who was a SpEd teacher at another school. My friend knew difficult child 3 from birth, knew his history and had at times been very vocal about what sort of support he needed. But because she was an official DeptEd employee, in the face of having to contradict someone more senior to her, she simply caved and played the "let's all be nice to one another" card. I felt badly let down at a time I desperately needed someone with a backbone to support me. It was on the steps after that meeting, that the District SpEd official told me she would exercise her right of veto AGAIN and continually, if/when I applied yet again to transfer difficult child 3 into correspondence. Her reason - "he is autistic. Therefore he must be in mainstream."
Even though correspondence was developed for exactly the situation we were dealing with! And my friend the alleged advocate, let her say this and did not respond. It took me another 18 months of trying to find loopholes, before we finally got difficult child 3 transferred.
My friend the SpEd teacher - she's a good friend in every other way; but I realised that I had asked her to divide her loyalties and she just wasn't up to the task.
I have another good friend, difficult child 3's godmother. She comes across as a very strong person, with strong opinions. But I have seen with her also - if there is conflict, she caves.
it's funny - if you asked either of them, they would tell you that I am in need of their professional guidance at times, because sometimes I seem unsure of myself or perhaps (conversely) I charge in without looking first. But I know, from my own record (which I have to rely on as my own advocate) that when I start something, I have to be prepared to follow it through and not give up halfway. Even if I eventually compromise and form some sort of agreement, it needs to be done as an active decision and not simply "I can't fight them any more" response.
Shari, your advocate sounds like she either doesn't fully understand your issues, or she is really distressed at the possibility of confrontation even when it's necessary.
Some people become advocates because they are peacemakers and don't like conflict. And in a lot of cases, that is what is needed - some parents are rabidly defensive of their children, blindly so, and not willing to consider that their child needs some sort of help which could be to everyone's benefit. Your advocate is probably brilliant in such cases. But an advocate has to be broader in their approach and understanding and too often, they can't handle it if it has to get really intense.
What has helped me the most (in terms of my approach) is to be strong, but also pro-active. I urge the school to be proactive also. I cut the situation down to basics and summarise - "We have discussed X and Y, we now have to consider how to respond to these. What has been suggested is G and J, how are these to be implemented? Now, given my understanding of this child, can you assure me that in your plans to implement G or J, you can ensure that K and M won't happen?"
I also continue with, "here is what I want. How can you provide this, within your own scope?"
I will work with them, but to assist them to give me what I want for my child.
The trouble is, schools were never designed to have to cope with kids like ours. Older teachers especially resent this and will tend to be oppositional about having to accept this responsibility. I find I need to address this oppositionality first by saying, "I know you didn't sign up for this when you undertook teacher training; I didn't sign up for having a kid with problems. But we're both in this situation so let's work together to help one another reach the best outcome possible for all concerned, especially this child."
You may well find they keep flicking back to, "We shouldn't be having to do this."
That's when I quote our (former) Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser, who said, "Life wasn't meant to be easy."
The best answer - "I wish we didn't have to do this either. But if we don't, it makes our lives more difficult. If you want to keep beating your head against a wall, go ahead. I'm trying to work with you to take a step back so we can see the doorway that we can go through and save hurting our heads."
Basically, you have to keep saying - "We're here. This is the problem. This child is not being difficult on purpose. He can do it some days and not others. We can't always expect to understand exactly why, because humans are complex creatures. So forget the, 'he shouldn't be reacting this way' and let's get on with, 'but he is, so here's what we will do to help him,' and make everybody's lives a whole lot easier."
Keep pushing the "We all need to work together on this," and eventually hopefully it will sink in.
Be strong. Sounds like you're the only strong one in this.
Marg
confuzzled
Member
i think marg offers great advice---but i highlighted this quote for a reason.
in light of THIS situation i would state what she said very differently....
"heres what wee needs, how can you provide this within your own scope"
because it all needs to revert back to him, and his educational needs--this situation seems to be too emotionally charged on both ends to lose sight of that.
i would repeatedly drive that point home.
busywend
Well-Known Member
Shari, just reading this post - I questioned the advocate on another one.
I would get a different advocate. This one is not typical, in my humble opinion. Also, will there be another parent there? There is supposed to be and you should be allowed to speak to them before the meeting. It should be a parent with a child in the Special Education program.
I would get a different advocate. This one is not typical, in my humble opinion. Also, will there be another parent there? There is supposed to be and you should be allowed to speak to them before the meeting. It should be a parent with a child in the Special Education program.
SRL
Active Member
I don't think so. That would be a violation of Wee's privacy unless you made the request to have them present.
Shari--
These kinds of meetings are way beyond my experience...but I am shocked that the advocate has advised exactly what the SD wants -- just take Wee home.
How is that advocating for the child? Sounds as if she is advocating for the School...
I hope there is someone else that you can work with.
--Daisyface
These kinds of meetings are way beyond my experience...but I am shocked that the advocate has advised exactly what the SD wants -- just take Wee home.
How is that advocating for the child? Sounds as if she is advocating for the School...
I hope there is someone else that you can work with.
--Daisyface
