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Westoboro Baptist Church? to picket NIU funerals?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 129588" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I've been reading the WIKIPEDIA entry on them and noticed you have an Anti-Defamation LEAGUE. Maybe we're a bit more draconian in Australia - we have Anti-Defamation LEGISLATION. People have the right to protest, but not to defame any group on the basis of gender, race, religious preference or sexual orientation. We have a tub-thumper religious politician who occasionally gets up and says offensive things and gets threatened with legal action. He's never gone this far, apart from early days if HIV concerns when he claimed that AIDS was God's justice on homosexuals. Come to think of it, I think that's about when the legislation came in...</p><p></p><p>This bloke was a HUGE campaigner against gay marches in Sydney, back in the days (20 years ago) when it was a handful of people doing a one-off march one winter night. Because of this bloke's loud protests, attention was drawn to gay issues in Sydney and we now have an annual Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras. His protests were better publicity than money could buy.</p><p></p><p>The thing I find fascinating? intriguing? about groups using religion to justify homophobia, is that they clearly don't know their scriptures as well as they think they do. When you look at Judaeo-Christian scriptures in broad, there are far worse sins than homosexuality. Where is it mentioned in the Ten Commandments?</p><p></p><p>Which brings me to Sara's point - such extreme homophobia says a great deal more about the protestor, than about what he is protesting.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 came home from Bible study last night and made a statement to me expressing concern about a particular denomination (often seen as a bit too extreme by some who misunderstand them). "They don't believe in hell in the same way," he explained. As this was a group I researched thoroughly back in the Sixties (a close friend was a member, and they also run one of Sydney's best private hospitals where I received treatment when I was 21) I told him that if this was true, then:</p><p></p><p>1) It wasn't in the literature I scrutinised extensively when I was younger;</p><p></p><p>2) So what? The concept of hell as preached in some churches is a Medieval construct, plus a lot of it is NOT in scriptures in any specific, clearly understood way (hence open to interpretation);</p><p></p><p>3) A LOT of Christian churches at least, are moving away from the more traditionally-viewed hellfire-and-brimstone concepts of hell, and </p><p></p><p>4) to judge another group purely because SOMEONE has said they don't think the same way, is not thinking for yourself. "Go to the primary source before you believe what you are told."</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, there exists in this world a number of very charismatic and very controlling people. They live to control large numbers of people and they crave public attention. These people are sick and twisted, to varying degrees. Some of them find their way to become religious leaders (any religion, even one they invented themselves); some go into politics; some become performers.</p><p>Please note, I am not saying that all religious leaders, all politicians, all performers are in this category - only that where you get the overlap, you get trouble.</p><p></p><p>I've also seen a slightly similar version of this attention-seeking, in stage mothers. They control their child to a frightening degree, all to gain some level of personal notoriety. Sometimes their ignorance of the business is frightening - they refuse to learn 'the rules' because in their mind, the rules should be re-written - by them. I recall a time when I was a media spokesperson for a charity, the way my being interviewed would trigger jealousy in some people. It was scary - a sort of "Why did they talk to YOU? I am FAR more interesting, and it could have made me a star," type of thinking. Totally unrealistic and very inappropriate to the purpose.</p><p></p><p>When such a person really exerts effort to control the thinking of large groups of people, I really worry for the human race - we allow these people the freedom to do this even where it badly infringes no other people's human rights. Where access to balanced information is restricted, how can people discern the truth for themselves? And when in history we've had world leaders who controlled entire populations, we have had war, or countries very close to war.</p><p></p><p>I really can't understand why this group has not been sued, charged with hate crimes or incitement to hate crimes, even sued for their use of the word "Baptist" which is clearly misleading and giving them a legitimacy they do not deserve.</p><p></p><p>I'm so glad the council had their snow ploughs lined up. Well done!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 129588, member: 1991"] I've been reading the WIKIPEDIA entry on them and noticed you have an Anti-Defamation LEAGUE. Maybe we're a bit more draconian in Australia - we have Anti-Defamation LEGISLATION. People have the right to protest, but not to defame any group on the basis of gender, race, religious preference or sexual orientation. We have a tub-thumper religious politician who occasionally gets up and says offensive things and gets threatened with legal action. He's never gone this far, apart from early days if HIV concerns when he claimed that AIDS was God's justice on homosexuals. Come to think of it, I think that's about when the legislation came in... This bloke was a HUGE campaigner against gay marches in Sydney, back in the days (20 years ago) when it was a handful of people doing a one-off march one winter night. Because of this bloke's loud protests, attention was drawn to gay issues in Sydney and we now have an annual Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras. His protests were better publicity than money could buy. The thing I find fascinating? intriguing? about groups using religion to justify homophobia, is that they clearly don't know their scriptures as well as they think they do. When you look at Judaeo-Christian scriptures in broad, there are far worse sins than homosexuality. Where is it mentioned in the Ten Commandments? Which brings me to Sara's point - such extreme homophobia says a great deal more about the protestor, than about what he is protesting. difficult child 1 came home from Bible study last night and made a statement to me expressing concern about a particular denomination (often seen as a bit too extreme by some who misunderstand them). "They don't believe in hell in the same way," he explained. As this was a group I researched thoroughly back in the Sixties (a close friend was a member, and they also run one of Sydney's best private hospitals where I received treatment when I was 21) I told him that if this was true, then: 1) It wasn't in the literature I scrutinised extensively when I was younger; 2) So what? The concept of hell as preached in some churches is a Medieval construct, plus a lot of it is NOT in scriptures in any specific, clearly understood way (hence open to interpretation); 3) A LOT of Christian churches at least, are moving away from the more traditionally-viewed hellfire-and-brimstone concepts of hell, and 4) to judge another group purely because SOMEONE has said they don't think the same way, is not thinking for yourself. "Go to the primary source before you believe what you are told." Unfortunately, there exists in this world a number of very charismatic and very controlling people. They live to control large numbers of people and they crave public attention. These people are sick and twisted, to varying degrees. Some of them find their way to become religious leaders (any religion, even one they invented themselves); some go into politics; some become performers. Please note, I am not saying that all religious leaders, all politicians, all performers are in this category - only that where you get the overlap, you get trouble. I've also seen a slightly similar version of this attention-seeking, in stage mothers. They control their child to a frightening degree, all to gain some level of personal notoriety. Sometimes their ignorance of the business is frightening - they refuse to learn 'the rules' because in their mind, the rules should be re-written - by them. I recall a time when I was a media spokesperson for a charity, the way my being interviewed would trigger jealousy in some people. It was scary - a sort of "Why did they talk to YOU? I am FAR more interesting, and it could have made me a star," type of thinking. Totally unrealistic and very inappropriate to the purpose. When such a person really exerts effort to control the thinking of large groups of people, I really worry for the human race - we allow these people the freedom to do this even where it badly infringes no other people's human rights. Where access to balanced information is restricted, how can people discern the truth for themselves? And when in history we've had world leaders who controlled entire populations, we have had war, or countries very close to war. I really can't understand why this group has not been sued, charged with hate crimes or incitement to hate crimes, even sued for their use of the word "Baptist" which is clearly misleading and giving them a legitimacy they do not deserve. I'm so glad the council had their snow ploughs lined up. Well done! Marg [/QUOTE]
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