What are some good, reliable tests for Asperger's?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Now that my son has taken the MMPI, I am wondering if I should revisit his Asperger's diagnosis. He really, really acts Aspie under certain circumstances, but now I can't tell if he has developed coping mechanisms or what.
    He is still such a black and white thinker, I want to scream. And he still shouts a lot and refuses to admit that he is shouting. And he refuses to meet people on his own; always needs an intro (either a sports coach, or a teacher, or a mutual friend). And he's got the telltale gluten allergy.
    Still, he is so, so very angry and anxious all of the time, that I don't know if that is part of his wiring or something he "believes" in.

    Anyone have suggestions for tests (not online; something that would be done with-a professional).
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. chloedancer

    chloedancer New Member

    PDDBI, AQ, Social Stories Questionairre and the CAM are the ones I am familiar with. I cant say they are the best, or most reliable, just that it is what I see used most often.
     
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you!
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I was told the ADOS test is the gold standard.
     
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    ADOS is one of the ones used here - we've been told there isn't "a" test for Aspergers/Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) - rather, there's a combination of tests, plus ruling out other stuff.
     
  6. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    terry, let me ask you a question. If you asked difficult child to do something fairly simple for his age such as "watch the bacon" for you while you were getting the rest of the groceries out of the car. What would happen?

    A. He would stand there and watch the bacon and remove it from the heat and set it to another burner when done.
    B. He would stand there, watch the bacon, take it out to a paper towel to drain and leave it there.
    C. He would watch the bacon and let the kitchen fill with smoke while bacon burned to a crisp but he was still "watching the bacon!"
     
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    If he was in a good mood, he would do either A or B.
    If it was 10 yrs ago, he would have done C, and then told me it was my fault for not telling him the rest of the chore.
    Most of the time, he'll do D. Yell at me because he's tired and has a stomach ache and he doesn't want to do anything and why doesn't Mom do anything?
     
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Just my 2 cents but I don't see how you could possibly get any accurate diagnosis on him right now. There is just too much bad attitude mixed with hormones (typical teen) and then whatever else- anxiety, bad dysfunctional habits, low self-esteem, whatever. I know that's what you're trying to find a solution for, but I'm not sure that's possible and I'm reminded of Dr. S telling me that "we" should be extremely careful not to get a troubled adolescent labeled with something they could end up stuck with for the rest of their life. That doesn't mean I have better advice for you than what you're doing and I hope this isn't sounding like a post that's meant to pop a bubble, but just based on seeing how much my son has changed (and I'm sure he wasn't cured by Department of Juvenile Justice), I am sooo thankful I didn't get hung up on ANY diagnosis. That isn't to say a diagnosis vouldn't have been applicable to him- or still couldn't- but sometimes that can take on a life of it's own and if it's not the right course, OMG- where would it leave an adolesscent or young adult? Particularly if they are under the control of a PO?

    Your son's MMPI should have been the edition written for adolescents. I don't see how anyone could cast the results in stone, for several reasons that I won't get into. If he'd already been diagnosis'd with something- say a sexual offender- and the school district had constant complaints about sexual offenses from him and this MMPI revealed a serious sexual deviance pattern, then I could see giving weight to that being the problem. That was just a hypothetical used as example - not an insuation at all. I just don't see any clear diagnosis jumping out in your son's case. But again, I don't live with him and only know what I read here- and that doesn't mean there isn't a diagnosis there, just that I can't see it being that simple as taking any 'test' or evaluation and getting an answer. And in hindsight, if someone told me there had been one for my son, I wouldn't have trusted it anymore than I'd trust an online test for something.

    ETA:



    This was my son 3 years ago and 2 years ago and I dare say it's at least half of those sitting in Department of Juvenile Justice and half teen boys not in Department of Juvenile Justice. FWTW- in my humble opinion- that isn't a clear diagnosis for anything except it's a red flag that trouble is ahead unless it changes, one way or another.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  9. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I just don't see any clear diagnosis jumping out in your son's case.


    I know, that's the point! I feel like I'm treading water and going under. I'd just like something to hang onto.
    He's always been indefinable, in the true sense of the word.
    I just thought there might be something "obvious" that I missed.
    Sometimes it's just nice to have somebody to talk to here, but I guess it's overkill on my part, and you're going through the same thing my husband is, in that he's sick of hearing about it.
    I'll just go to bed and shut up.
     
  10. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh gosh Terry! I for sure am not sick of this, you are going through a real crisis time. Of course you are wanting answers, and klmno is probably right, that it is going to be a huge challenge right now because of all of the complicating life factors, all the typical teen stuff piled on.

    At this point, his having Asperger's is one factor and the things you say, about how he thinks and accommodations you have to make to support him are the important things that just need to be considered in that any type of therapy or schooling would need to be able to use his learning style and work with him regarding any sensory or social challenges that come along with how he takes in information. I think it may be good to assume that it is a piece of the puzzle since you have had that diagnosis for a long time, and use what you know about him to help others get more information about what else is going on with him right now.

    Just saying he has Asperger's period would not really help right now I think...just random thoughts on this right now, maybe I will change my mind, but what I mean is that everyone with Asperger's is a person first and so it only gives us so much information. what is important is all of those unique things you know about him and how to help him be more successful. He has other issues right now, and it seems like you have been saying that you think he may be Asperger's plus something else.

    Can you arrange for a neuropsychologist evaluation to help with this placement decision and to sort through where he is right now?

    I know you dont need one more thing on your plate. Just wondering if that could help add more practical information. I wish there was an answer that would just clear things up once and for all. I just imagine he is that unlucky that he is really high functioning in a few areas and really vulnerable in others, leaving this time of teen age junk so much more complicated.
     
  11. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Terry. Don't let the process wear YOU down too far, because... difficult child needs you. It IS a long-haul process. Ours took... 10 years of working the "system" to get the right dxes - and we're still in high-intensity mode because you don't fix this stuff overnight. But... the process can literally drive you insane. (hence, my board-name)

    Personally? Reading your posts (going back a ways), and others' threads... plus my own experience with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) "traits"? My difficult child doesn't meet diagnostic cutoff but definitely has clinically significant traits... and even having THOSE spelled out, helped. (In our case, they are starting to fade, because they weren't really Aspie at all, but the result of extreme fatigue, lack of support, and lack of experience because of the first two...) But the extreme black-and-white thinking - I don't know of anything other than Aspie traits that connects with that one. The rest... may be secondary, may be co-morbid, may be... whatever else. But there IS more going on than a typical teen going off the rails - and you have known that for a while now.

    Any chance of a comprehensive evaluation? Our latest was PhD-level psychologist who was prepared to really dig. We've also seen good results from the team approach (neuropsychologist isn't an option here). Someone needs to tell you what all the little bits and pieces are.
     
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Terry, I sure didn't mean to imply that anyone was tired of hearing about it or that you should quit posting. It's clear that you need to vent, as we all do sometimes, and you are trying to do what is best for your son and family as a whole. Also, when I wrote that "trouble is ahead" when teens are like this, I didn't mean that was neccessarily legal trouble. I meant it seems to me to lead to a rocky ride on a roller coaster of some sort until the teen grows up and gets out of it and learns some respect respect for others- whether that comes with maturity, a stricter living environment, a treated diagnosis, etc, or a combination of things.
     
  13. Allan-Matlem

    Allan-Matlem Active Member

    Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) diagnosis is a lot better than other diagnosis as it talks about lagging skills , where most other diagnoses just describe the behaviors , what the child is doing and not the underlying factors. Dr Greene still says that Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) tells us that the kid is in the park , but we don't know where his feet are.

    When we review the ALSUP list of assessed lagging skills - see the livesinthebalnce.org site and make a list of unsolved problems in great detail , then start working on problems by involving the kid - his concerns and perspectives , problem solving etc to find durable mutually satisfying solutions.

    We have to move beyond diagnoses and work on the actual problems. Diagnoses have their use , maybe medications and the medication route is not a pleasant merry-go--around, accomodations and funding etc .


    There is a feeling , that if I had an accurate diagnosis, there would be progress. Unfortunately according to Dr Greene we must acknowledge how much a diagnosis can buy and it is not much.

    Taking a RDI approach , diagnoses describe behaviors and don't talk about missing developmental milestones or as Dr Greene says lagging skills

    Allankatz-parentingislearning
     
  14. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Terry....I understand where you are coming from....The same here!
    I know a diagnosis doesnt give my son any excuse for his behaviour....but sometimes, just sometimes it makes it a little bit easier for me to forgive his behaviour and get the loving feeling back again if I could know that there is a diagnosis or some kind of neurological excuse for his rudeness! I am being very honest now!
    A diagnosis also gives some form of direction and maybe indication of what can and can't be expected....although I realize that this last statement is very limiting towards the individual!
    Like the psychiatric doctor said when diagnosing my son.....Actually a proper diagnosis can sometimes only be made once an individual is about 16 yrs old....but the sooner we diagnose and start with interventions...the more likely the chance of symptoms improving so much that at 16 yrs we dont need to diagnosis anymore!
    Allan...I hear what you say about getting the kid involved in problemsolving, identifying the problem and seeking solutions....The only problem here is that with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, ok....lets just say, in my kids situation...one of his BIGGEST problems, and this contributes to bad behavior, is the problems he has with: IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM, PROBLEMSOLVING and SEEKING ALTERNATIVES! So its a very nice idea....but in reality, my kid might just say well he cant see any problem....he struggles to see his contribution to conflict, stress, exct. And then the whole irrational spiral of timewaisting arguing will start! He seldom has any clue of how his behaviour is causing some one else to feel bad or angry!
    Terry...also remember...your son might not fit the criteria for AS but could maybe fit Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) not otherwise specified? The thing with inpropper diagnosis or lac of it sometimes leads to behaviour that might have been improved by better intervention, medications, therapies, whatever. And the lack of intervention then can lead to disfunctional behaviour becoming a pattern and learned behaviour....And the longer we wait, the more difficult it becomes to undo this behaviour patterns!
    So Terry....I so get where your worries are coming from! Hope some one can guide your family to the answers you so desperately need!
     
  15. Allan-Matlem

    Allan-Matlem Active Member

    Lovelyboy wrote

    Allan...I hear what you say about getting the kid involved in problemsolving, identifying the problem and seeking solutions....The only problem here is that with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, ok....lets just say, in my kids situation...one of his BIGGEST problems, and this contributes to bad behavior, is the problems he has with: IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM,
    PLEMSOLVING and SEEKING ALTERNATIVES! So its a very nice idea....but in reality, my kid might just say well he cant see any problem....he struggles to see his contribution to conflict, stress, exct. And then the whole irrational spiral of timewaisting arguing will start! He seldom has any clue of how his behaviour is causing some one else to feel bad or angry!

    So like most challenging kids and their parents CPS and Plan B is hard work, messy and difficult , everybody lacking the skills. This is even more of a reason to get help on using plan B because we have identified crucial skills that a kid is lacking

    there are many reasons why Plan B is unsuccessful

    the opening statement is not specific and neutral enough
    we are not spending enough time on the kids concerns - real slow

    Allan
     
  16. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Terry--

    First big (((hugs))). Both of our kids could have "alphabet soup" for a diagnosis right now - so I understand where you are coming from.

    I feel like you are saying "OK - just give me ONE thing that I can do to APPROACH this that makes some kind of sense!".

    Based on my experience, I would say that you need to create a nice space for YOURSELF right now (I don't mean a nice room...I mean SPACE - space AWAY from all the turmoil and stress you are facing.) You need to nourish your own soul for a little bit.

    Next - even without a diagnosis, you see the areas where difficult child has difficulty. As far as you are able - you need to create a "success-only" environment for him. You need to eliminate some of the "I'm going to trust him to...." stuff. This means you wouldn't even THINK of letting him "watch the bacon" unless you absolutely, positively already knew that he would do the correct thing. If you don't know for SURE that he will do the correct thing? Then don't let him be in that position.

    I know that means that in many ways, you will be treating him as though he is much younger than his chronological age - but maybe that's where he still is developmentally and maybe he still needs the kind of parental support and supervision that you would give a much younger child?
     
  17. Lovelyboy - I know a diagnosis doesnt give my son any excuse for his behaviour....but sometimes, just sometimes it makes it a little bit easier for me to forgive his behaviour and get the loving feeling back again if I could know that there is a diagnosis or some kind of neurological excuse for his rudeness! I am being very honest now!
    A diagnosis also gives some form of direction and maybe indication of what can and can't be expected....although I realize that this last statement is very limiting towards the individual!

    Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/for...reliable-tests-aspergers-49460/#ixzz209JB85p6

    Yes!!!! You said that so well!

    Terry - I can totally relate to both you and Lovelyboy in what you are going through right now. My difficult child has Tourette's and ADHD with some Aspie traits although not officially diagnosed with Aspergers. I feel like difficult child may end up in the alphabet soup category - he's already halfway there. And none of us want that but like Insane said if we finally get the right diagnosis then we can move forward and deal with what it is.

    difficult child is so normal and good some days and on other days he explodes and is completely irrational, defiant, argumentative. Last week he went to work with husband, no trouble getting up in the morning, worked well, was pro-active in his thinking... he was easy to talk to, pleasant to be around and we had a great week. Yesterday he jumped between irrational, angry, bullying behaviour towards me to apologizing to back to bullying and irrationally arguing - all afternoon until 1am. It was brutal.

    You just never know who you're going to get when you're in the same room with him, am I right? Sometimes he is ok and a glimpse of the person you used to know? Other times he's this completely awful, irrational human that you can't stand to be around (I hate to admit that about my child but it's true for me)?

    Terry - it is so hard to live like that - this roller coaster of up and down and left and right - big hugs to you - I truly hope you find some answers for yourself and your difficult child very soon.
     
  18. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.
    I agree, DF.
     
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