Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
What Do I Do? Need Help Now!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 254209" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Apart from possibly the exercise thing (I'm with the others, although I do hear you on this one) I think you're doing everything right. You're relying on your gut instincts and so far they're on the money.</p><p></p><p>I also hear you on not wanting to call the police. From what you're saying, I think calling the police would have been a mistake, given that he's hiding in the shed all this itme and it would have been not only hugely ebarrassing for all of you, it would have given him a huge drama payoff. He probably would have trotted out another abuse story to cover the embarrassment and justify his over-reaction, and then you would have had a lot more fuss (and the police more paperwork, even if they don't beleive him) and frankly, not worth the problems.</p><p></p><p>That's not to say that you shouldn't call the police in this sort of situation; it's just a matter of making the right call at the right time. You're the one on the spot here, you made the decision.</p><p></p><p>For future reference - leave the physical punishment to the school. I think you need to put in place LOGICAL consequence-based punishment (if any punishment). For example, while he's hiding in the shed, don't give him food or water, unless you think his stubbornness really will go so far as to have him seriously suffer dehydration and/or starvation, rather thancome out. Because what you're doing, sounds a lot like what Japanese mothers of hikikomori children do, in 'enabling' their (usually) sons. These kids will choose to isolate themselves from the world, opting out of life and shutting themselves away, but it's not something that can be done without some degree of enabling. But in their society, it is extremely shameful to admit to having a kid with a problem like this; plus the pressure these kdis are under to do not only well but brilliantly, means that some kids just snap under the pressure, and some familes enable the dysfunction, so it can go on and actually be magnified, over years.</p><p></p><p>Hiding out in the shed like this, sounds to me similar to a hikikomori hiding in his room. He originally went in there for a brief moment, for a short break from pressure he was feeling, and suddenly it becomes just too difficult to come back out again. But hey! I don't have to come out, here is food, here is drink, I can stay longer if I need to.</p><p>On the one hand, tis should ease his anxiety and maybe make it easier for him to finally realise, "They know where I am so this isno longer a hiding place. This is getting faintly ridiculous, I should come out now," but on the other hand, he has no impetus to come out because when he eventually does, there will not only be punishment but there will be discussion over the incident and he will have to face what he has done. And he can't do that very easily. So he waits.</p><p></p><p>The problem here, the sticking point, is something in his head that can't cope with decisions well, and can't cope with choices and having to face responsibility. Especially this last one. And his current placement is again enabling this, by not making him take personal responsibility for things he has done wrong. Part of learning to take personal resonibility is NOT simply punishing him whwn he does something he shouldn't, because if the punishment isn't connected to what he did wrong, then he isn't really seeing it as his fault in any way, it's other people doing things to him. He needs to learn the connection between what he does, and what happens next.</p><p></p><p>How to give him that connection?</p><p></p><p>Step 1 - while he's hiding, he will be hungry, thirsty and perhaps cold, unless he planned ahead and stashed supplies in there. If he stashed supplies, then over time he will use up those supplies and will need to come out. Again, duration of stay = supplies dwindling. HE will be consuming them, HE will have to ration them or plan in some way.</p><p>But only if you are sure he has the capacity to do this.</p><p></p><p>Step 2 - when he has to be home from school for ANY reason, give him schoolwork appropriate to his educational needs. Writing out lines seems too much like punishment. And even if in YOUR mind, it should be punishment - you should never make anything to do with education, a punishment. Similarly, physical exertion shouldn't be used as punishment if you want thatperson to grow up to enjoy a physically active life. The fastest way to teach someone that physical effort is bnasty, is to use it as punishment. "I am making you do this, therefore this must be something unpleasant," where in fact a lot of people enjoy physical activity, as it should be.</p><p>Instead, if he is home from school then the first work you get him to do, is any outstanding homework. Then you get work from the school (if you have had time to do this) and give him that to do. Third comes any old workbooks you happen to have lying around, such as revision notes or similar, which you can either get from last year's students at a discount or pick up at cheap book sales when the opportunity arises. Last comes any computer-assisted learning packages (and there are some really good, inexpensive ones). TV DVD documentaries or movies you feel would be beneficial. Opera. Shakespeare. But the aim of the game is LEARNING, and it shouldn't necessarily be unpleasant or difficult. But being home during school hours should ALWAYS mean, schoolwork only is on the agenda. Learning. Education. And again, it needs to be as enjoyable as possible, because the child MUST learn to always seek the opportunity to self-educate. That is the lesson for life - every day, we must learn something new. We must learn to seek it out, not try to avoid it.</p><p></p><p>The ultimate aim is for him to learn to drive himself. And while his current aim is to try to drive YOU guys up the wall, he is missing the point.</p><p></p><p>he has a capacity for great stubbornness. If he ever learns to turn that onto himself, to drive himself to do the right thing, he will be capable of amazing things. But you can't drive him to do things, he is too good at opposing you. You need him to learn to do this for himself, and the starting point is to help him learn to enjoy it. </p><p></p><p>YOu do this by allowing him to tell you when he is finding something difficult, challenging or boring. Siply having him recognise this enough to admit it, is a huge start. Having him see you try to find ways to help him NOT be bored, afraid of the work or struggling, is the next huge leap forward. Having him then discover that with the change you've helped him make, that it suddenly IS easier, more interesting, etc - is the next great lesson. These need to ahppen over and over and for him it may take a while and his obstinacy is a current big barrier.</p><p></p><p>While it's currently more pleasant for him to hide in ashed, than to stay with you - he will go hide in the shed. If you can make it more interesting for him to stay with you, then that is what he will do. But he MUST learn to face his responsibilities, and with the school undermining you here, I really don't know what you can do. All you can deal with, is your own space. The school has to wear their own consdequences with him.</p><p></p><p>Good luck. He's a handful, alright. But you clearly are capable of rasing good kids, you have success with others. So it's not you. Hold that thought.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 254209, member: 1991"] Apart from possibly the exercise thing (I'm with the others, although I do hear you on this one) I think you're doing everything right. You're relying on your gut instincts and so far they're on the money. I also hear you on not wanting to call the police. From what you're saying, I think calling the police would have been a mistake, given that he's hiding in the shed all this itme and it would have been not only hugely ebarrassing for all of you, it would have given him a huge drama payoff. He probably would have trotted out another abuse story to cover the embarrassment and justify his over-reaction, and then you would have had a lot more fuss (and the police more paperwork, even if they don't beleive him) and frankly, not worth the problems. That's not to say that you shouldn't call the police in this sort of situation; it's just a matter of making the right call at the right time. You're the one on the spot here, you made the decision. For future reference - leave the physical punishment to the school. I think you need to put in place LOGICAL consequence-based punishment (if any punishment). For example, while he's hiding in the shed, don't give him food or water, unless you think his stubbornness really will go so far as to have him seriously suffer dehydration and/or starvation, rather thancome out. Because what you're doing, sounds a lot like what Japanese mothers of hikikomori children do, in 'enabling' their (usually) sons. These kids will choose to isolate themselves from the world, opting out of life and shutting themselves away, but it's not something that can be done without some degree of enabling. But in their society, it is extremely shameful to admit to having a kid with a problem like this; plus the pressure these kdis are under to do not only well but brilliantly, means that some kids just snap under the pressure, and some familes enable the dysfunction, so it can go on and actually be magnified, over years. Hiding out in the shed like this, sounds to me similar to a hikikomori hiding in his room. He originally went in there for a brief moment, for a short break from pressure he was feeling, and suddenly it becomes just too difficult to come back out again. But hey! I don't have to come out, here is food, here is drink, I can stay longer if I need to. On the one hand, tis should ease his anxiety and maybe make it easier for him to finally realise, "They know where I am so this isno longer a hiding place. This is getting faintly ridiculous, I should come out now," but on the other hand, he has no impetus to come out because when he eventually does, there will not only be punishment but there will be discussion over the incident and he will have to face what he has done. And he can't do that very easily. So he waits. The problem here, the sticking point, is something in his head that can't cope with decisions well, and can't cope with choices and having to face responsibility. Especially this last one. And his current placement is again enabling this, by not making him take personal responsibility for things he has done wrong. Part of learning to take personal resonibility is NOT simply punishing him whwn he does something he shouldn't, because if the punishment isn't connected to what he did wrong, then he isn't really seeing it as his fault in any way, it's other people doing things to him. He needs to learn the connection between what he does, and what happens next. How to give him that connection? Step 1 - while he's hiding, he will be hungry, thirsty and perhaps cold, unless he planned ahead and stashed supplies in there. If he stashed supplies, then over time he will use up those supplies and will need to come out. Again, duration of stay = supplies dwindling. HE will be consuming them, HE will have to ration them or plan in some way. But only if you are sure he has the capacity to do this. Step 2 - when he has to be home from school for ANY reason, give him schoolwork appropriate to his educational needs. Writing out lines seems too much like punishment. And even if in YOUR mind, it should be punishment - you should never make anything to do with education, a punishment. Similarly, physical exertion shouldn't be used as punishment if you want thatperson to grow up to enjoy a physically active life. The fastest way to teach someone that physical effort is bnasty, is to use it as punishment. "I am making you do this, therefore this must be something unpleasant," where in fact a lot of people enjoy physical activity, as it should be. Instead, if he is home from school then the first work you get him to do, is any outstanding homework. Then you get work from the school (if you have had time to do this) and give him that to do. Third comes any old workbooks you happen to have lying around, such as revision notes or similar, which you can either get from last year's students at a discount or pick up at cheap book sales when the opportunity arises. Last comes any computer-assisted learning packages (and there are some really good, inexpensive ones). TV DVD documentaries or movies you feel would be beneficial. Opera. Shakespeare. But the aim of the game is LEARNING, and it shouldn't necessarily be unpleasant or difficult. But being home during school hours should ALWAYS mean, schoolwork only is on the agenda. Learning. Education. And again, it needs to be as enjoyable as possible, because the child MUST learn to always seek the opportunity to self-educate. That is the lesson for life - every day, we must learn something new. We must learn to seek it out, not try to avoid it. The ultimate aim is for him to learn to drive himself. And while his current aim is to try to drive YOU guys up the wall, he is missing the point. he has a capacity for great stubbornness. If he ever learns to turn that onto himself, to drive himself to do the right thing, he will be capable of amazing things. But you can't drive him to do things, he is too good at opposing you. You need him to learn to do this for himself, and the starting point is to help him learn to enjoy it. YOu do this by allowing him to tell you when he is finding something difficult, challenging or boring. Siply having him recognise this enough to admit it, is a huge start. Having him see you try to find ways to help him NOT be bored, afraid of the work or struggling, is the next huge leap forward. Having him then discover that with the change you've helped him make, that it suddenly IS easier, more interesting, etc - is the next great lesson. These need to ahppen over and over and for him it may take a while and his obstinacy is a current big barrier. While it's currently more pleasant for him to hide in ashed, than to stay with you - he will go hide in the shed. If you can make it more interesting for him to stay with you, then that is what he will do. But he MUST learn to face his responsibilities, and with the school undermining you here, I really don't know what you can do. All you can deal with, is your own space. The school has to wear their own consdequences with him. Good luck. He's a handful, alright. But you clearly are capable of rasing good kids, you have success with others. So it's not you. Hold that thought. Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
What Do I Do? Need Help Now!
Top