what do you guys think of this?

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by saving grace, Nov 19, 2006.

  1. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    For the past couple days I have been "dealing" with difficult child trying to talk to him about the situation, the living arrangements, etc... I told him of a rooming house I heard of that charges 130 a week and its near his job so he could walk. He then tries to manipulate me saying things like he cant make it on his own, that he will end up with a needle in his arm etc... I relpied with "well then thats your choice"

    So here the thing... I found out that he has been taken Suboxone again, getting it from a friend and cutting one pill up and taking small pieces of it here and there. I asked him why he was taking it and if he needed it for detoxing and he said "no" that he only takes it because he never feels good, that he wakes up every single day and feels like dying, he is angry and anxious and miserable everyday, he said he knows alot of it is in his head, and I said thats the drugs driving you to think that way and that it hasnt been that long at all since he has been sober, and that he hasnt given it a chance. He said he still gets back pain, the chills and insomnia everyday and the only time he doesnt feel like that is when he takes the suboxone.

    The first week of September he was in detox for a week they gave him methadone while in there and he came out not feeling much better, he had a tooth pulled shortly after that and had about 4 vicodine over a 4 day period for pain, so that brings us to October and I think thats when he started the suboxone, so he has only really been sober for a period of about 2 weeks, that is not enough time when yoiu have been using drugs for 5 years straight.

    He has been diagnosed with anxiety and BiPolar, he has no doctor and no insuance to get a medication cocktail so he has been self medicating in my opinion.

    at one point he was in an hysterical rage crying and crying saying that he never feels good, he just wants to feel like a normal 20 year old and that he cant remember when he ever felt good.

    I have tried over and over to tell him that it takes a long time for his body to come back from drug use.

    What do you all think of this?? Do you think we should try to find him a pysch doctor to re evalutate him and do you think that medications will help or do you think its the drug use that has his body so messed up OR is this just another manipulation on his part OR a litte bit of all of it?? I am tempted to start feeling bad for him but my head is telling me no. because that still doesnt explain why he lies and steals.

    My head is spinning right now

  2. YoungSpartan

    YoungSpartan New Member

    You bring some very difficult questions to the table, especially for people who have no strong insight into the situation, but I can give you a few thoughts of mine...

    Manipulation is likely involved to some extent, and I'm just saying that because from my experiences and what I've learned from professionals, it almost always is.

    As for what I've heard from you, Bipolar II sounds like it could very possibly be a accurate diagnosis. I'm diagnosed with Bipolar and anxiety.

    My best recommendation stands from my original post to you, which was to look into a Marchman Act or something similar to get him into a program based on psychological aspects with a strong substance abuse component if available. A mental hospital may do good for a short 1 week or less stay to give a good psychiatrist a detailed evaluation of your difficult child so he can diagnosis and prescribe medications accurately.

    Best of luck,
  3. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    Grace, that's such a hard call. Addicts, because of years of drug us, don't feel normal unless they are high. They are also really good at making you feel sorry for them. When husband was using I often felt like I was the one who was crazy. He had me convinced that he was okay and I was the one who needed help---Do you have a local mental health center? I know they see people according to income. They can also dispense medications according to income. If he has none---they may see him for free.
  4. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    Alex, I know you are not familiar with our background but difficult child is 20 he has been every facility and program available in our area. He has done short term long term outpatient and even jail. He has been in therapy many times. Nothing has ever helped him.

    He was diagnosed in the last detox he was in. They referred him to another doctor to follow up with when he was released and he never did that because of no insurance.

    Kat, Thats what scares me and makes me feel bad for him is that due to the long term drug use he just doesnt feel normal and thats sad. I know if he could stick it out for the long haul it might start to get better but he has zero will power.

  5. YoungSpartan

    YoungSpartan New Member

    Ah, I see. Sorry for the useless infortmation in that case.

    I must say, I'm really at a loss of ideas, but I will pray for you. Good luck.
  6. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    No No never useless information around here. Every bit of advice is valuable. I just noticed that you were fairly new and I figured you didnt have my history.

    Welcome to our little corner of the cyber world.

  7. OTE

    OTE Active Member

    I'd definitely get him into a sliding scale clinic if he'll go. let them do an evaluation and decide whether it's addict behavior or real pain. Don't think anyone else can say. Let an objective professional sit down and talk with him.

    There is a sliding scale clinic in every area. Every hospital that has an ER has to have an "indigent", "charity care" or whatever they want to call it program. They get a certain amount from the State every year, it's not fully funded by the State but it's also not all their cost. So you're looking for a hospital with an ER, a psychiatric and a rehab program. Inpatient psychiatric would also be helpful should he have to be admitted.

    If you can't find one with a reasonable waiting list second place I'd try is the county or state Board of mental health. They are there to help people find services. If they don't have their own clinic they will refer you to one that takes people on sliding scale.

    In terms of paying the fee I'd find out how much it is. In my experience you're talking something like $5 or $10/ office visit. medications in another issue. Obviously he would qualify for the pharma co programs. That would be my first shot and I'd make sure the doctor picked a medication on that basis. Print out a list and take it with you to the psychiatrist. Don't forget to get a list from Walmart, Target or whoever is doing those $4/script in your area.

    If he doesn't have the minmal co-pays it's been my experience that these clinics won't require you to pay it. They'll keep you in treatment just because they should. medications can be different depending on who you're getting them from. If the minor amt of cash is still a problem look for a local charity that will help. They're out there, you just need to look. Something like Catholic Charities or a local church would either help or refer you to another charity that could.

    I'm not saying that the paperwork, interviews, etc to get set up in these clinics is easy. Well, it's not hard, they just want a paycheck stub, tax return, ss card, birth cert, whatever else he has. Typically it's one form, at most two sided asking for history and financial status. But it is annoying if he's impatient. Humbling if you're not used to begging. But he's probably not going to have that problem. If you volunteer to help with the paperwork and pay the co-pays directly to the hospital, clinic, pharmacy, etc it would be easier. I used to give them a "deposit" of $50 or $100 so they could spend that down. Made them very happy. Tell them to send all the bills to your son c/o you.
  8. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    Thanks OTE, tons of info and much needed thanks again. I believe at one time he did get approved form some type of free care somewhere, I am not sure what the guidelines are for that I will ask him to look into it. He is very impatient, if he feels crappy even for one day he cant stand it, then his anxiety kicks in and he blows it up to an even bigger problem.

    Thanks for the help


    TYLERFAN New Member

    Hi Grace:

    I think first off your difficult child needs to be under the supervision of a physician. If he has no medical insurance possibly he can go to the state for assistance....medicaid?
    I think we all know that the drugs change their physiology as well as their moods, etc. He sure seems to be self-medicating.
    I know what you mean about feeling helpless. The best thing we can do for a drug addict is to help them when they are ready to get serious help. He won't do anything till he's ready. I would tell him that he needs to at least see a doctor who can help him with the withdrawal and depression as a condition of continuing to live at your house.
    Best of wishes to you!

    Melissa *
  10. neajle

    neajle New Member

    GRACE, just checking in and saw your post. Sorry things are still not going well. OTE and Tylerfan have given you some really good information. It sounds like he really needs to be under psychiatric care. I can only imagine how horrible he must be feeling. I do believe that at first that is why these kids get messed up with drugs to begin with, then if they don't have drugs they feel worse than they did before. It is hard to tell them to let go and give it time (that is what they need to feel better) but when they are hurting, each minute seems like eternity for them. I truly know what you mean when you say that you don't know whether to feel sorry for him or not. I think he is probably telling you the truth about not feeling good, but only he can force himself to stay off the drugs until his body starts to heal.

    I would check into all of the different options that they gave you. Somewhere, somehow, somebody will be able to help him if he wants the help.

    I will keep him in my prayers and you too. I am sorry it is so awful at your house right now. I remember those days so well.

    God bless all of you.