What do you think> Learning Disability (LD)?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by DammitJanet, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think I posted earlier this year that Keyana had been talked to about misbehaving a bit in her pre-k class. Nothing really major, just not really wanting to nap when its nap time and being a bit too talkative. Well its continuing. Oh and also that she was a bit slow on the uptake on her letters.

    Well...Linda told us this weekend that she would like it if we would have a word or three with her. Seems she has been acting up more. As we know they just went back after the long holiday so that may be some of it. She has been much more talkative. Doesnt want to hush when told to. She was standing on her head to be funny. My guess is to get out of work she didnt want to do.

    Linda also said she is finding it really hard to work with her on her letters. We are trying here too. I got her both the Vreader and the Mobigo which both have word games and counting games. She plays them but still has a hard time with anything to do with letters.

    I have a leapfrog thing with the letters on the fridge. You put the letter in the box and it says the letter and the sounds. I also have a dry erase book with all the letters both capital and lower case so she can copy the letter and we do that...she can copy them pretty well...but cant tell you what letter it is even 5 minutes after we say it to her.

    She also has this table and chair thing that is dry erase. She can write on that. I will write a letter A on it. She will write rows and rows of A's. I get her to say...A as she writes each one. The we wipe them all off and do say the letter B. She does a row of B's. We wipe them off and I show her the letter A again and ask her what that letter is and she cant tell me what it is! Even though it hasnt been 5 minutes since she wrote 15 of the letter A's.

    She does know about 3 letters down pat and I dont know why...well except for one. She knows K...for her name...she knows N...and she knows O. Nothing else.

    I am thinking she may have some sort of Learning Disability (LD). I think this is also why she is acting up in class. I have a puzzle where she has to sort the letters out and put them back where they go and she can do that but that is simply matching shapes. She doesnt know the letters. If I say...get me the A...she is lost. Now if I say...give me the A that looks like this...thats ok, but again, the minute we leave the puzzle, the info is gone. Once it is put together I can go...ok, what is this letter...and she just guesses.

    She also doesnt write in a straight line...like if I say...ok...lets write a word and I will tell you what letters to write. lets write CAT. And she can actually do the letters if I put the letters down in front of her. But she will do say the C then the t and the A in front of the C. Sometimes I can get her to actually write the letters with me just saying...A or L or K or E or squiggle squirmy snakey S. Just depends on her.

    I really do think there is a Learning Disability (LD) at play here...or am I reading too much into it with her only being 4.5 years old. They really push them to learn so much so fast now. She is supposed to know her whole alphabet, write them and know some easy words before she gets to K in the fall. Im afraid they will keep her back in pre-k. Gosh...I never knew you could fail to make it into Kindergarten...lmao. I sure wasnt doing all this before I got into K I will tell you this much. I learned how to share, hang my coat up and play with kids in K. I sure wasnt heading into algebra!
  2. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    With granddaughters the same age, I can understand why you're asking. I know Nichole was worried about Aubrey for a bit. Then I reminded her to associate letters with things Aubrey liked and could very easily remember. The same thing every time for each letter until it stayed in her memory, then she could start associating that letter with other things. She started with her name, then moved on from there. It's the same thing we did for her colors. Like yellow for sun, blue for the sky, green for grass ect.

    Like she remembers K because she has it associated with her name.

    Due to Aubrey's delay in speech we've watched her closely. But once she could associate letters with things it clicked for her and she took off. She's now reading and writing small words much to all of our surprise, including her preschool teacher who says she is way ahead of the class. She actually saw the vreader on tv and asked santa for it for xmas. So she's been having fun with that now too.

    But honestly? When you think back to when we were kids we weren't expected to recognize our letters and numbers until we were already in kindergarden where they taught them to us. I know we push kids awfully hard these days and in my opinion too fast. Some kids simply catch on faster than others even those without any issues at all.

    One thing Nichole did do with Aubrey was she bought her some of those picture flashcards with the letters on them and they'd play the "letter" game. It really helped her associate the letter with familiar things and get it to stick..........cuz I mean sometimes you look at a letter and just draw a blank as to something a little kid can remember. lol

    I dunno, I suppose if that doesn't work........or if some other idea someone else may have.......then maybe you should have her tested.

    But I can tell you that while I had no issue with letters........mine was with letters making words. I didn't "get" reading. When my 1st grade teacher would tell us c a t spelled cat......I was sort of like no that is c a t. It just didn't click. I was 3/4 the way through 1st grade......a lot of tears.....being teased....(mean teacher who was part of that teasing didn't make it any easier) when all of a sudden one day it "clicked" and I realized that letters made words which you read. Then I took off like a shot........was reading above grade level from there on out.

    No learning disability. It simply took time for it to click. Once it did I was fine.

    I'd keep watching her, but me personally? I wouldn't be over worried at 4 1/2. Evan concerns me because he can't sing his alphabet, count to 10, colors, shapes.....the very basics he should have and now 5 yrs old even without preschool. I'm worried the school is going to label him learning disabled when in his case it may just be simple neglect to teach. Although katie swears the vtech toy I gave him that does his letters and numbers he just won't put down.....so if she's telling me the truth maybe it's just simple neglect and he can catch up to his peers.

  3. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I've always watched movies with the closed captions on, something in my hearing is off so it helps me. I can hear that something is said, but a lot of time I have trouble understanding what was said. I think it helped kiddo associate written words with spoken words, and even now she'll turn on captions on dvds even when she's the only one watching it. Not a sure-fire trick, but maybe an additional tool.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Kids learn at different rates. They also learn different things at different rates. I have a friend who is a school librarian and is certified as a reading specialist. She says that most kids learn to read by age 8 and the only time to worry is if with help they cannot read at age 8. THAT is a amjor problem. If no Learning Disability (LD) has been found by then, and they cannot read, it is likely that they will not be able to learn. I know adults who gave up long before then. I have a cousin who couldn't read at 8 but they found a combo of learning disorder and not learning all the pieces because he was in different schools and some things got skipped. Many kids who have LDs have real smart brains and real gifts for other things. They often will use memorization to avoid anyone realizing that they are not able to read. They also become disruptive or class clowns or similar to avoid detection.

    In Keyana's case I would keep workign with her. Help her create her OWN alphabet books with words that stick in her mind. When Wiz was in first grade I got a classmate to learn the alphabet - they all thought it was a literal miracle. What I did was create the most 1st grade boy funny alphabet I could. F was Frankenstein Farts, G was Giggling Green Ghost, P was Peter Piper Pooped his Pants, etc... For this little boy, first it was a RIOT to hear an adult read this out loud, and to be allowed to SAY these - in school no less - was even more fun. So it stuck. We got that far just before Thanksgiving. At the end of the year he could still remember what letters make what sounds. We all thought that it was great progress. It took a lot longer for him to read simple words like cat and word. I don't really know if he ever got it, but he did get those first building blocks.

    Keyana is a smart little girl. That boy didn't have all the pistons in his brain firing. He simply was not terribly intelligent on most things. Of course, not everyone is smart, pretty, or any other thing. That is why people are so interesting. It may be that Keyana simply is not ready. It may be that she has a learning disorder. It could be an auditory processing problem or even a hearing problem. I do think it is wise to start the evaluation process if her mother can be persuaded to do so. in my opinion it is the best way to figure out what is going on, keep her from developing bad habits as a way to cover up - kids with Learning Disability (LD)'s don't know what is going on but they do know that they are different and can't do what others seem to do so easily - it is one of the reasons they become class clowns because they are trying to hide and because they are trying to make adults smile with funny things because they cannot make them happy by doing the tasks asked of them. Or so I have been told by quite a few tdocs and learning specialists. (It also makes sense given what I know about those with Learning Disability (LD)'s that I have been close to.)

    If you do not have Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood, I strongly recommend getting a copy for you, for her other Gma and for her mom. The techniques will help you help her with all of this stuff, and with the school behavior. If at all possible, introduce her teacher to L&L. It can make a HUGE difference, even for experienced teachers. All of this will help her also. Testing for Learning Disability (LD)'s will give you answers that will help you find out how to help her. Don't forget the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory stuff. it is another reason that may make behaving in school difficult for some kids. It is also very treatable with the right therapies.

    I hope htis helps!
  5. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    I have 5 kids. Oldest boy read at age 3. He is now a 20 year old college dropout who works as a delivery guy for a restaurant. He had lead poisoning which screwed him up to a large degree. My only daughter was in the gifted K class. Then we moved to a higher rated district with no gifted classes till late middle school. She barely read till age 8 despite having a 154 verbal IQ. She's a junior in college now, honor roll, studying to become a Special Education teacher. I freaked out over her (also lead poisoned) but she read when she was ready. difficult child, now 16, had severe speech issues and did not speak clearly till the end of 1st grade. He barely read until the beginning of grade 3 and then he went literally from Hop on Pop to Harry Potter overnight. He takes Honors/AP and did so well on his PSAT recently that the district superintendent actually commented on it to H when he saw him in the supermarket.

    Next child actually IS dyselxic (as is H). We put him into K at age 4 (long story short, our school district refused to put him in pre-K because our income was too high and his former private pre-K had no room except in its K program) and mother in law, who used to pick him up and help him with HW) actually picked up on his dyslexia. He made virtually all letters backwards, not just the usual suspects of b and D; his g's, r's, e's, all backwards. He's 14 now and still makes Y's backwards which is a problem because he has one in his name. I had him repeat K with his age cohort and that helped a bit but in first grade, I demanded testing. They tried to put me off by saying LDs aren't usually diagnosed till 3rd grade, but I knew he was dyslexic. The kid has an amazing memory, very verbal, outgoing, no reason why he couldn't read, except dyslexia. I got them to classify him and give him Orton-Gillingham starting in grade 2, after a few months, they switched to Wilson and he now (9th grade) reads at or above grade level. However, I can't put him into Honors classes even though his verbal IQ is identical to difficult child's (both over 130) because he can't keep up.

    Youngest was thought to be Learning Disability (LD). Turned out he has a pretty severe visual issue. He is extremely near-sighted in one eye and farsighted in the other. Since we got him bifocals 2 years ago and vision therapy, his reading has improved but he still has an aide to help him with writing. I think a lot of it is lack of confidence combined with the fact that the school district is willing to drop any assistance on me because I didn't sue them over their treatment of difficult child in 6th grade.

    In Keyana's case, some of it could be that she is youngish, I would look for Learning Disability (LD)'s if there is a family history of it (that's the thing that got my son looked out younger than usual), some of it could be just normal variations in children's development (e.g., my daughter), have you checked her vision (the best eye doctor in town misdiagnosed my youngest, try a certified vision therapist), she could just not be interested yet, it could be a low level of ADHD, there are many issues.

    I would keep an eye on it but she is still young. I read at 3 but do not recall having to do anything in K other than fingerpaint and play games in K. My mother says that I used to come home from K and tell her that it was so stupid, all we did was fingerpaint and sing songs and play games and when were we going to LEARN something? As I grew up, I despised art, music and gym classes as I stank at all of those activities and never took more than the bare minimum but because they didn't relate to the core subjects, nobody ever said "oh, she must have an Learning Disability (LD) in art, music or gym!" which I probably do - I can't carry a tune, draw a straight line or play a sport or dance but those things are ok because they don't relate to reading.

    Sorry to ramble, I guess the bottom line is - IF you suspect an Learning Disability (LD), get on it asap and if not, it's probably just developmental.

    Good luck.
  6. Mamaof5

    Mamaof5 Guest

    This is me too. I know I'm hearing impaired. I've been tested. I use CC even on Youtube!! (not quite as accurate as they can be yet). I find it's done incredible wonders for the kids too as an added bonus. Even signing with them while speaking gave them associatives for the words and letters. Perhaps Baby Signs would be good for K? You have to speak while signing the letters so that they have a visual association with the letter or word. There are resources that are free online for this. Signed alphabet is very easy though and if you want I can use my webcam and make up a video for you of the signed alphabet and a few key words?

    PM me if you want them!
  7. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    My sister who has multiple post graduate degrees in early childhood education says it is a shame that schools are pushing the little kids to accomplish levels beyond their capabilities. Many of the skills they are insisting on at four and five are not true to normal development patterns. As a result they often misbehave or begin to feel inferior. One more sad reality about the systems we live with today.

    Wish I had an answer for you. Her "readiness" level is not below the norm based on info you shared a month ago. I think she is just developing normally and is being pushed to accomplish more than comfortably can at this time. Hugs DDD
  8. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    Janet, I think it is a good thing to keep an eye on. It's young to really go all out for Learning Disability (LD) but to calmly continue to work on letters in a way that is fun and more play. Singing alphabet songs was a good thing for our kids. CD's in the car to listen to when she is relaxed and not thinking it's "work". The bigger issue is behavior. I agree that if she isn't getting what everyone else is working on she will do other things to distract and to be funny. Being the center of attraction stops others from working and makes them all like her. Obviously, she has to learn about self discipline and not interrupting the other students but it would seem a natural behavior if one doesn't understand what they are engrossed in.
    It's a good thing that the you and her mother are watching and working on it but I wouldn't consider her Learning Disability (LD) yet. She sounds like a sweetie though.
  9. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Sing as many things as you can. It really helps the kids remember. There's a collection of color songs that spell the color and then tells of things that are that color, and believe me, it sticks. In my head, too. When Miss KT was in K, I was an AWANA leader, and one of the assignments in our little book was to recite all the books of the New Testament in order. Fortunately, there's a song for that, and I just told them to sing me the song. No problem with that, but they freaked out about having to recite.

    Remember Schoolhouse Rock?
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    If you look online or in stores (esp ones like Borders/Barnes & Noble) you fill find a LOT of kids music about letters/numbers. Far more than you might otherwise expect. It would be another way to help. Audiobooks are also very helpful. I know the Magic Treehouse is on audiobook and is pretty reasonable (and fun).
  11. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    No, I don't think Learning Disability (LD) at all. I spend time in kindergarden classes and that seems kind of normal. Here we don't even have pre-k. I have a easy child who was taken out of regular-ed first grade for special -ed reading classes. In high school he was in AP lit and got college credits. He just made the dean's list, he's in the engineering program at his college.
    You see that she can learn, she plays normally, and who cares that she doesn't nap? I think she's going to be ok. The reading and writing will come to her. She can do some, and you'll see, she'll just keep progressing. Kids just do things at different rates.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure it's a bona fide Learning Disability (LD) or just her development at the moment. She's still too young.
    If she can memorize the letter "K" for her name, I think the others will follow.
    My son was like that, and when he was in first grade, he just walked in the door one day and started reading sentences. I asked him how he figured it out and he said, "The teacher showed me."
    (Uh, yeah, but HOW?)
    It's good to keep an eye on it but I wouldn't be overly concerned at this point.
  13. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Janet, where is she, age-wise, with the other kids in her pre-K class? I think any teacher will tell you that there is a big variation in the ones that are on the older end from the younger ones. Because of the age cut off, my son was almost six when he started kindergarten while some of the younger ones were just barely five - makes a HUGE difference at that age!

    I also think that they push the kids in to way too much too soon. It seems like when they enter kindergarten now they expect them to already know all the things that they used to learn while they were IN kindergarten! Maybe it's because of all the educational toys out there now or all the kids' shows on TV or that there's so many of them in day cares and pre-schools. My daughter has kids' programs on all day long for my 20-month old grandson. He does pay attention to some of it but mostly he likes to play music and dance around the living room!
  14. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Keyana, like my younger two boys, will always be one of the younger kids in her class. She is a summer baby. Cut-off of school entrance is end of September so she headed in to the 4 year old class in August when she was just 4 years and 2 months old and there were kids that were turning 5 in October. So there are kids in her class that have as much as 3/4 of a year on her. That will always be the way it will be.

    I did teach Keyana to spell her name by singing it to her. I kind of made up this catchy tune and we did it in the car constantly. Kind of sounds like a little cheer...lol. K e y...ana...Keyana!

    She can write...somewhat legibly, if I start her off with a letter. I have this table that she can use a dry erase marker on so we do one letter at a time. A...apple...a a a a a. Mostly I am working only on capitals right now. Just writing and recognizing them. She actually seems to have some of the numbers down. She can read 1 thru 5 and then 7 9 and 10. she gets confused with the 6 and the 8.

    However, she did reveal to me that she stood on her head while they were working on their letters and she didnt know how to do it. Hmmm. Me thinks I know why she decided to act up. I explained to her that feet are for standing, tushies are for sitting and heads are for thinking. She also has two ears for listening and one mouth for talking. That means she should listen twice as much as she talks...lmao.

    Threatened her with me going in to sit with her in class if she continued to act up. She told me oh no, grandma's cant come to class...lmao.

    One thing that shocked me is that she said her teacher has a paddle if anyone misbehaves. I knew they used to do it down here but I had assumed that had gone by the wayside by now. Guess not. Cory was not happy to hear about that paddle...lol.
  15. Mamaof5

    Mamaof5 Guest

    Uhm..the paddle is actually illegal now a days. The paddle did go by the way side as a law and by law reform in most countries including Canada and the USA. The only reason why I remember that was because it was the year I first started high school and the high had just gotten rid of their paddles that year. I missed being paddled by one summer (not that I would need to be paddled I was a bit of a goody two shoes at that age ...somewhat). I remember my dad telling me stories of paddlings. One in specific (not paddling) story about his high school years was the way the principle called down his group and him. He'd say Mr. so and so, Miss thang and YOU. The you being my dad. Major Mac High was interesting apparently. Not only did they have the paddle but the principle would call kids down to his office for discipline issues and offer a beer to some of them...So different back then.
  16. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Being the youngest in the class is a huge strain. She really doesn't always have to be the youngest because she can be held back early on with-o significant trauma. I think she's just in a situation that she is not ready for. I didn't have any issues but I was one of the youngest in my grade. Socially and developmentally I was last. Last in physical development as we became tweens, last one to get a drivers license, last one to see boys differently etc. I enrolled my eldest easy child as the youngest in her class. She also had no academic or behavioral issues but was behind the curve when it came to social development. I didn't make that mistake with the others. There's no advantage to the child, in my humble opinion.

    Paddling is still an option, I believe, where we live. Parents have to sign a paper either giving or denying permission to the school to paddle....all the way until high school graduation. That was true up to about five years ago. I'm not sure about now but I assure you I never gave consent. DDD
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I had assumed the paddle had "left the building" by now but maybe not. I have no idea if her momma or other Grandma gave permission or not. That is not my place in life. Sigh.
  18. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Corporal punishment being allowed in school depends on the state and county. It is still legal in almost half the states, though individual counties and districts may not allow it. I recall having it in school and my parents had to sign as to whether or not it was allowed to be used on me.
  19. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I wish they'd allow paddling in our districts. Now, it wouldn't scare Onyxx, or even hurt, but she'd either learn restraint or they'd help us get her more help...
  20. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I have to tell this story. Maybe oldies will remember it.

    Cory was six the first time he was sent to the office to get paddled. Mr. Woody was the principal...great guy. Loved that man. I cant remember what Cory had done but obviously it was serious enough that he needed to be sent to THE OFFICE! (Insert gloomy music)

    Well, Cory goes into the office to have the obligatory chat with Mr.Woody. In this school the Principal's office was right off the receptionists office so there was two doors...one leading from her office and then he had another door leading out into the hallway. Very old school building. Well after Mr.Woody spoke with young Cory he told him to sit in his chair while he went to get the teacher who would witness THE PADDLING!

    Well...Mr Woody left...but he did a very bad thing. He left Cory alone in his office...and he didnt take his keys with him. Cory calmly locked himself inside the office by locking both doors! They came back and couldnt get in the office...lol. No amount of asking, cajoling, begging, pleading, promising or anything would get Cory to open the door. The janitor happened to be off that day. They actually had to send someone to my house to get me to come attempt to get Cory to open the door...lol.

    By the time we got him out...which I did by threatening all that is near and dear to him...Mr Woody just didnt have it in him to paddle him anymore. He said it was the first time he had ever been outsmarted by a six year old...lmao.