WHat do you think of parents who don't immunize their kids?

[Malika]

If you believe in science and facts, I don't believe there is a debate. I didn't say that I have strong feelings on the subject, but you are correct, Malika. I do. I have strong feelings about parents relying on junk science, thus exposing the entire population to disease.

Sorry, flutterby, got you mixed up with seriously, who started this thread What I know about this subject could actually be written on a (very small) piece of paper - one side only. I am not therefore in a position to argue intelligently. But I do know many (ordinary) people who are wary about vaccinations, for various reasons. I myself decided that, weighed in the balance, the most responsible thing to do was to follow the paediatrician's advice and give J all the shots she recommended when she recommended them. That said, I am somewhat sceptical that all that we are told by medical doctors and the pharmaceutical industry is god's own truth... Just saying (as you say).

 

[keista]

Vaccines, tuna fish, drinking water - all these minute amounts accumulate together. Thermasol is just one source of it, just another source to the plethora of sources being dumped into our environment and bodies. Not the sole source but one of them.

Interesting that you mentioned this because I was pregnant at the same time as two other women. We drank from the same water supply. My son is an Aspie, one other has a high functioning Autistic son, and the other I have no idea, but I ran into her at the Dr's office for a well visit (about 6 months) and her son just looked "off" (I know doesn't necessarily mean anything, could just be the way he looked, but, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.) Anyway, that was part of my logic of delaying DD1's vaccinations. That and the similarities of disposition between her and son. Stagger the vaccinations with milestones, so if problems suddenly cropped up I'd have some answers. Fortunately that was not the case.

by the way I have no doubt in my mind that some ppl have better natural immunology that others. This could be biologic or environmental. As long as your kids have that natural immunology, the vaccinations are unnecessary and could even be detrimental. The reason I don't doubt this is because I had a cat that was immune to fleas. Yes, naturally immune. The vet was even surprised, but said it was not unheard of. Having that immunity but using flea treatment is redundant and exposing the cat to unnecessary chemicals. Don't know anyone who would do that.

 

[Kathy813]

My 7-year-old cousin died after getting chicken pox in the 1960's. Looking back, we think it was a case of Reye's syndrome (see below) but never were sure. All I know is that she got a case of chicken pox and was dead 7 days later.

What Is Reye's Syndrome?

Reye's Syndrome is a disease which affects all organs of the body, but most lethally the liver and the brain. Reye's Syndrome is a two-phase illness because it is almost always associated with a previous viral infection, such as influenza, cold, or chicken pox. Scientists do know that Reye's Syndrome is not contagious and the cause is unknown.

I wish the chicken pox vaccine had been around when my daughters were small. They both ended up with severe cases of chicken pox and I was a nervous wreck.

Not to mention that adults that have had chicken pox as children have the virus in their systems all of their lives and can end up with painful outbreaks of shingles as adults.

Chicken pox is not a harmless childhood disease!

~Kathy

 

[muttmeister]

The efficacy of vaccinations has been proven over and over. Is it true that a very small number of kids have dangerous side effects? Yes, but the proportion is much smaller than children who die of getting those same diseases. As far as I'm concerned, if you choose not to have your child vaccinated, then you should homeschool them and keep them away from the general public. You do not have the right to expose other people to those diseases. Yes, if yours is the only child who has not been vaccinated, then the others shouldn't be afraid but that is somewhat faulty reasoning too. Others may get the disease because of several anomalies. I don't understand people who are so selfish that they are willing to expose others to something preventable.

 

[AnnieO]

I have mixed feelings on vaccinations - but...

We made 100% sure that Onyxx & Jett had all the required vaccinations - TDAP & MMR are the ones I remember. They also got the chickenpox vaccine. No smallpox, which I think is interesting. I got that one as a baby, but I guess it's no longer required.

ANYWAY - My Mom swears I had the chickenpox vaccine as a child (1970s), though it wasn't actually available until 1995 - at which point I didn't even live with my parents anymore. And I've had the chickenpox multiple times. Mild cases every.single.time. My doctor is baffled. I've asked for the vaccine, because I can just see getting it again (though perhaps I'm finally immune, as I haven't had it since I was about 28). doctor won't, because I've had it. Ugh!

I don't bother with flu shots. I know, I know, I know. The kids get them - insurance covers it, and it ensures I take less time off work, and they miss less school. Now - if I do ever get pregnant - YES, I WILL.

HPV vaccine. I have some issues with this one, simply because it has not been around long enough for us to really know. I don't think this one should be mandated. Anything communicable by casual contact - coughing, sneezing, etc. - yes. But this one... No. That said, Onyxx has had it - bio took care of it because she told Onyxx that she had had cancer while pregnant with her (really? She wasn't treated for it...). Matters not what the reason was, for Onyxx, it was probably a VERY GOOD IDEA.

 

[TerryJ2]

I knew there would be a variety of answers here.

with-husband being a chiropractor, he was against a lot of the immunizations, so we went down the list and chose what we wanted and didn't want. We DID want whooping cough vaccine, because it is one of the first to re-occur when immunizations taper off. It came back with-a vengeance in England about 15 yrs ago. I have a friend whose daughter had it and no one slept for 2 mo's. Ugh.

We did NOT want chicken pox vaccine, because it only lasts 3 yrs and typically, if you get chicken pox, you're immune for life (although you can get shingles in middle age and later). difficult child has had the chick pox vaccine because of his age. He hadn't had the Real McCoy by age 12 so we caved.

The others we did not bundle. I had to pay extra to get the vaccines separated and spaced by about a month apiece. The doctors and nurses argued with-me and I argued that I am going to get them; just not bundled.
It's too hard on the immune system.

 

[TerryJ2]

Susie and all, I beg to differ in regard to Gardasil.
If my daughter were borderline or schizoaffective and out of control, then yes, I would get it (for her).
But for average kids who are not sexually active until later, and then, more particular about their mates , the Gardasil vaccine has a 6% chance of causing cancer in another part of the body.
Yes, *Mc-What's her name, the congresswoman running for Prez, was incorrect when she inserted the retardation anecdote into her speech. It obviously doesn't cause that. But it does cause other kinds of cancer. You can easily Google it and judge for yourself.
And that's my point here -- our state, VA--is the only one where it is mandatory to get the shot, although there is an opt-out clause. The nurses do not tell you this. You have to bring it up. Makes me furious. The law should not dictate which shots we get and we should be totally, totally informed of all side effects, no matter how miniscule.
It's always about the risk-to-benefit ratio, and most people don't take that into consideration. Going to become a novitiate? Don't bother with-the shot.
Our legislature is probably going to do away with-the law next yr.

*Michelle Bachman. Don't know why I thought it was an Irish name, lol!

 

[TerryJ2]

Seriously, if you look deeper into those stats, nearly all of the 100 people who died are illegal immigrants in Marin County, Calif. FWIW.
My daughter got chick pox when she was 2, and went on to get 2 more illnesses connected to it--a huge ear infection, fever and chest/lung infection. I took her to the dr and got antibiotics. End of story.
But with-illegal immigrants, or those who simply aren't on the ball in regard to taking their kids to the dr, yes, chick pox can mutate into other things or cause other illnesses and you can die. But it is rare.

 

[Kathy813]

Where did you get that the chicken pox vaccine only lasts 3 years? This is from the CDC:

How long does the vaccine protect someone against chickenpox? Will a booster vaccination be needed?

The length of protection/immunity from any new vaccine is never known when it is first introduced. However, available information collected from persons vaccinated in Japan in the United States show that protection has lasted for as long as the vaccinated persons have been followed (25 years in Japan and more than 10 years in the U.S.). Follow-up studies are ongoing to determine how long protection will last and to evaluate the need and timing for booster vaccination. If it is determined in the future that a booster dose is necessary, your health-care provider will inform you. Currently, no booster dose is recommended beyond the recently recommended two-dose vaccination series.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/default-basic.htm

by the way, Reye's syndrome can happen to anyone whether you are "on the ball" or not. My aunt took my cousin to the doctor several times during the course of her chicken pox and she died in the hospital. Yes, it is rare, but it does and can happen. Why take that chance if you don't have to?

 

[seriously]

If you are correct and it was largely immigrants who died from chicken pox (I have not read this anywhere but have not looked for the info either) in the past the situation is rapidly changing. We are now facing a lot more kids/youth/young adults who have not been vaccinated. And a growing elderly population. And the population of people who are on immune-suppressant drugs for auto-immune disorders has grown by leaps and bounds in the past 15 years with the introduction of biologics.

So. It seems unlikely that even if it the numbers were skewed toward immigrants in the past, it is going to stay that way if the current vaccination trends continue. In California there has been a steady decline, statewide, since 2004.

And some communities are much more vulnerable than others. In California, there are now growing disparities between different parts of the state in the rate of vaccination in kinders. Rates of up to 30% unvaccinated kinders have been reported and I don't see how, in those schools, the herd immunity can be maintained.

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/news/ci_18985311

When they were younger my children attended a Waldorf based public school and one of the things I was happy to leave behind when we left that school was the extremely high numbers of kids who were not vaccinated because it was even higher than that.

Speaking from personal experience, both my kids were vax'd against chicken pox once when they were 4 yo. Both developed strong titers when tested 10 years later.

 

[TerryJ2]

My dr's ofc gave me flyers, and I found it online. I'll look it up again in a min.
I will also look up Reye's. I am wondering which one is caused by giving aspirin to kids under 12, and which one has to do with-circulation and smoking ... I'll be back.

 

[TerryJ2]

Okay, here is my own Q & A about Reyes, in addition to the virus info you all have posted here: Definition By Mayo Clinic staff Reye's (Ryes) syndrome is a rare but serious condition that causes swelling in the liver and brain. Reye's syndrome most often affects children and teenagers recovering from a viral infection and who may also have a metabolic disorder. Signs and symptoms such as confusion, seizures and loss of consciousness require emergency treatment. Early diagnosis and treatment of Reye's syndrome can save a child's life.
Aspirin has been linked with Reye's syndrome, so use caution when giving aspirin to children or teenagers. Though aspirin is approved for use in children older than age 2, children and teenagers recovering from chickenpox or flu-like symptoms should never take aspirin. Talk to your doctor if you have concerns.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I'm pretty sure Reye's is the combo of aspirin and fever, in kids - here, they say aspirin shouldn't be given for fever until adult, not just 12. It isn't the aspirin, its the combination.

 

[TerryJ2]

Kathy, I found the CDC quote you cut and pasted. The other sites, from Japan and UK, state that they don't know how long the vaccine lasts but they are guessing 20 yrs.
I cannot find any sites at the moment that state it only lasts 3 yrs, which is interesting (although I only read 2 pp of results out of 1, 2300!).
I did find a lot of results where the info between 1999 and 2011 was vastly different. Obviously, studies are still being done.

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, by the way, thought I'd add that my chiro husband ALWAYS gets vaccines when he travels out of the country for mission work, because there are diseases in S. Am, C. Am and Africa that are unknown here.

 

[DammitJanet]

I know one thing..anything that says it could give you encephalitis or swelling of the brain or anything like that? Im staying far away from. One episode of being in a coma was enough for me. I dont want chicken pox again. I had a bad enough case of them the first time. I had a horrible case of herpes all over my face when I was in the hospital in the coma. You wanna know what was really bad, the doctors wouldnt even give my family some prescription cream to get rid of it. Tony had to go buy Abreva to put on the sores.

 

[hearts and roses]

Oh, by the way, thought I'd add that my chiro husband ALWAYS gets vaccines when he travels out of the country for mission work, because there are diseases in S. Am, C. Am and Africa that are unknown here.

easy child is traveling to Ghana, Africa next summer and she's scheduled to have a boatload of vaccines for stuff we don't have here. I'm concerned for many reasons, but my biggest concern is that she doesn't have the best immune system already! She's currently working with her Dr to make sure she gets the right ones well in advance of her trip so in case she has bad reactions, they can take care of it. Ugh. I do not like the idea of her even going, but that's another thread.

 

[InsaneCdn]

There was an international travel clinic where we used to live... and their recommendation was that you needed to start immunization 12-18 months ahead of leaving... ideally, you would be DONE the process at least 6 months in advance. They also agreed that it doesn't work to get them all at once... therefore, 12-18 months out was their policy.

 

[DDD]

For some reason the program Tia and ?? Tamora was on tv yesterday and I watched ten minutes or so. One of them is pregnant and immunizations was the topic. She and her husband or SO were shopping for a Pediatrician who was not "dead set on immunizations". I thought of this thread and also thought, eh gads, I wonder how many young viewers are going to be influenced. DDD

 

[Mamaof5]

Rheye's Syndrome is Aspirin given to children not CP??

CP can cause shingles (I got CP twice as a kid). Vaccine efficacy has been only studied by the companies that have made the vaccines without double blinds. No they haven't been proven over and over again. The studies have been skewed in favor of the vaccine companies that make them. They test new vaccines against old vaccines too. No placebo, no double blind.

There's also been an increase in the last 30 years of what's called the placebo effect, killing drug manufacturers medications and vaccine studies before they even hit the shelves. Why was a rotavirus vaccine removed from the stock..or better yet what about Bayer dumping a vaccine on the Latino market that was contaminated with the HIV virus? With these kinds of "ethical" business practices I, despite my medical exemption, don't trust these companies.

I was once like some of you here (pre adverse reactions) saying that people who did not vaccinate were crazy and stupid. Even saying that they were abusive parents...until that adverse reaction happened to me and forced me to reevaluate my ideology on vaccines, efficacy and the pros and cons of them when it comes to safety. It scares me how much we'll believe a person who wears a white lab coat when it comes to vaccines but we scream bloody murder when it comes to advocating for every other medical situation. We have informed consent for everything else...why not vaccines too?

Canada states in its version of the constitution (Charter of Rights) that no person, agent of the government or medical establishment may force vaccination (including schools) or set forth any legislation that superceeds the COR when it comes to vaccines. They are considered a medical procedure here (as they should be).