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What does detachment look like to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="scent of cedar" data-source="post: 612192" data-attributes="member: 1721"><p>I seldom think of myself as courageous, Recovering. I read those lines over and over again, just for the taste of it. </p><p></p><p>:O) </p><p></p><p>It is a fascinating thing to talk with women from other cultures. There are depths and rhythms unfamiliar to me, there. As you indicated occurred in your interaction too, Recovering, the locus of control seems firmly seated in the self for these women. Perhaps, unlike the thinly veiled hatred that passes for freedom in our own misogynistic culture, they have been raised to believe the female (and by extension, the male) has intrinsic value. I see that in husband's mother, and in the almost sacred way her children (including husband ~ and me!) view her. She exudes a very strong sense of intrinsic value. Truly, there is nothing at all that she needs to do but be herself. This makes it easy for her to love people ~ or to be appropriately angry without holding a grudge. It makes it easy to be ourselves around her. </p><p></p><p>I am happy this happened, Recovering. How does that old saying go? Something about seeing our own shadows in someone else's light? </p><p></p><p>I remember telling you once that it was husband's mother who taught me to mother my own children, and who demonstrates for me to this day which are the values that matter.</p><p></p><p>It is interesting to note that my daughter is, and has been since she was a little girl, fascinated with Native American culture. Because of that, I too (kicking and screaming at first, I admit it!) have learned about that culture. It is a very different thing than the legitimized prejudice I had been taught to believe. </p><p></p><p>Time and again, I was shocked into confronting my own prejudice.</p><p></p><p>What kind of society do we live in, where these kinds of belief systems flourish?</p><p></p><p>When I did an exploration of misogyny, and of its roots in Western society, I was horrified.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I am glad you were able to hear what the lady was telling you, Recovering. </p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>Here, are some things I learned about Native culture: </p><p></p><p>The concept of time and distance are very different than ours. Visiting, traveling to visit, sharing and interacting on many levels ~ these are primary values, for them. I can't describe it, really. But the culture is very different than ours. Kinder. More connected to hearing what rides the wind or whispers through branches or travels in the scent of things, and more attuned to one another. Though seen as stoic? They are bright, quick, generous and hilarious.</p><p></p><p>One of our nephews married an African woman. It has been quite an education to come to know her, to hear the stories of her childhood, to learn which are the values she instills in her own children.</p><p></p><p>All of which goes back to your comment about having been taught that we are not, intrinsically, enough. There is more here than just what happened to us as children, Recovering. Perhaps this lesson is bigger than either of us suspects....</p><p></p><p>***************</p><p></p><p>I fully agree that we confront the same issues on deeper and deeper levels, and that, jealousy, envy, greed ~ all the seven deadly sins in fact ~ are born in that feeling of scarcity/vanity. It amazes me that, once we become aware that a different interpretation of self is possible...we can do that, down on all those levels where it is impossible to see with any certainty, simply by understanding, simply by coming to believe there is a better way and letting go of those old, now-exposed-as -false beliefs. Here is an interesting thing: After pulling through old business these past few weeks and feeling shaken by those old beliefs, strong as ever and not willing to let go of me without a fight? I started eating too many things, eating when I wasn't hungry, eating after I was full, that kind of thing. I found myself thinking of food as much as I would be if I were literally starving. I thought about it all the time. It was the craziest thing.</p><p></p><p>I stopped doing yoga. Stopped practicing karate.</p><p></p><p>WATCHED ALOT OF BEVERLY HILLS HOUSEWIVES!!!</p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" />)</p><p> </p><p></p><p>So, that had to be about the continuum of greed. Acknowledging an emptiness, a cold, dark place within, I began trying to fill myself up. I literally could not stop thinking about food. As we are learning though, acknowledging a vulnerability allows the air to get at it, and it begins to heal.</p><p></p><p>I was literally making myself sick, was literally making unhealthy choices ON PURPOSE. </p><p></p><p>Interesting stuff.</p><p></p><p>Judgment is the same way. Awe of those "above," patronization of those "beneath." Blind as a bat to anything but what we choose to tell ourselves we see, or we would never have become trapped in that circle in the first place.</p><p></p><p>The hardest thing is just to sit there and feel what it feels like.</p><p></p><p>Layers and layers and layers.</p><p></p><p>I may be going far afield from the topic of detachment. I am not sure. These may be the issues that prevent me from accepting what is.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="scent of cedar, post: 612192, member: 1721"] I seldom think of myself as courageous, Recovering. I read those lines over and over again, just for the taste of it. :O) It is a fascinating thing to talk with women from other cultures. There are depths and rhythms unfamiliar to me, there. As you indicated occurred in your interaction too, Recovering, the locus of control seems firmly seated in the self for these women. Perhaps, unlike the thinly veiled hatred that passes for freedom in our own misogynistic culture, they have been raised to believe the female (and by extension, the male) has intrinsic value. I see that in husband's mother, and in the almost sacred way her children (including husband ~ and me!) view her. She exudes a very strong sense of intrinsic value. Truly, there is nothing at all that she needs to do but be herself. This makes it easy for her to love people ~ or to be appropriately angry without holding a grudge. It makes it easy to be ourselves around her. I am happy this happened, Recovering. How does that old saying go? Something about seeing our own shadows in someone else's light? I remember telling you once that it was husband's mother who taught me to mother my own children, and who demonstrates for me to this day which are the values that matter. It is interesting to note that my daughter is, and has been since she was a little girl, fascinated with Native American culture. Because of that, I too (kicking and screaming at first, I admit it!) have learned about that culture. It is a very different thing than the legitimized prejudice I had been taught to believe. Time and again, I was shocked into confronting my own prejudice. What kind of society do we live in, where these kinds of belief systems flourish? When I did an exploration of misogyny, and of its roots in Western society, I was horrified. Anyway, I am glad you were able to hear what the lady was telling you, Recovering. :O) Here, are some things I learned about Native culture: The concept of time and distance are very different than ours. Visiting, traveling to visit, sharing and interacting on many levels ~ these are primary values, for them. I can't describe it, really. But the culture is very different than ours. Kinder. More connected to hearing what rides the wind or whispers through branches or travels in the scent of things, and more attuned to one another. Though seen as stoic? They are bright, quick, generous and hilarious. One of our nephews married an African woman. It has been quite an education to come to know her, to hear the stories of her childhood, to learn which are the values she instills in her own children. All of which goes back to your comment about having been taught that we are not, intrinsically, enough. There is more here than just what happened to us as children, Recovering. Perhaps this lesson is bigger than either of us suspects.... *************** I fully agree that we confront the same issues on deeper and deeper levels, and that, jealousy, envy, greed ~ all the seven deadly sins in fact ~ are born in that feeling of scarcity/vanity. It amazes me that, once we become aware that a different interpretation of self is possible...we can do that, down on all those levels where it is impossible to see with any certainty, simply by understanding, simply by coming to believe there is a better way and letting go of those old, now-exposed-as -false beliefs. Here is an interesting thing: After pulling through old business these past few weeks and feeling shaken by those old beliefs, strong as ever and not willing to let go of me without a fight? I started eating too many things, eating when I wasn't hungry, eating after I was full, that kind of thing. I found myself thinking of food as much as I would be if I were literally starving. I thought about it all the time. It was the craziest thing. I stopped doing yoga. Stopped practicing karate. WATCHED ALOT OF BEVERLY HILLS HOUSEWIVES!!! :o) So, that had to be about the continuum of greed. Acknowledging an emptiness, a cold, dark place within, I began trying to fill myself up. I literally could not stop thinking about food. As we are learning though, acknowledging a vulnerability allows the air to get at it, and it begins to heal. I was literally making myself sick, was literally making unhealthy choices ON PURPOSE. Interesting stuff. Judgment is the same way. Awe of those "above," patronization of those "beneath." Blind as a bat to anything but what we choose to tell ourselves we see, or we would never have become trapped in that circle in the first place. The hardest thing is just to sit there and feel what it feels like. Layers and layers and layers. I may be going far afield from the topic of detachment. I am not sure. These may be the issues that prevent me from accepting what is. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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