What does this sound like to you?

[tpalvado]

Hello. I am new here. I have a 5 year old son who has been diagnosed with Asperger's by a school Phsycologist. However, I took him to see a specialist and she said she does not believe he has it. I just want to know what is wrong with him. His behavior is not normal. I will give an example of what he does. When he gets angry, he will hit and kick me, the walls, the door, throw stuff, bang his head against the wall, and scream. I mean, just the word "no" will set him off. Making him come in the house is murder. He will refuse to go in so I have to pick him up and when I do that, he will scream to the top of his lungs and he will kick, and kick and kick until I bring him inside. I'm surprised that no one thought he was being kidnapped. He also has no sense of danger. He will run out in the street without thinking. He did that at Chuck E. Cheese for his birthday. He ran under the red rope and ran out the door and almost run into the highway. I had to install a dead bolt on the front door and fix the windows where they won't open. He can't sit still, he doesn't listen to directions, he's always on the go, he has a very short attention span, he's always in time out at school. Sometimes I think he does things on purpose just to irritate me. I got a referral to a place here called Daysprings which is a Behavioral Clinic. I should get a call from a Therapist by the end of the week with an appointment. I hope that they can diagnose him with something. I can't stand not knowing exactly is wrong with him. I know this is not normal. He also has some developmental problems. What does this sound like? I really need help!

 

[BusynMember]

If he had developmental problems, he very well COULD be on the autism spectrum, but you really didn't give us that much info and we can't diagnose. Did he speak late or copy words? Did he have trouble making eye contact with strangers? Did he dislike being touched? Was he late in pottying? Does he understand how to socialize with his same age peers? Can he transition well from one activity to another? Did he ever line up toys? Did he play with toys at all or just look at them or shake them or dismantle them? Does he have any obsessive interest, such as cars, computers, certain television shows, anything? How does he do in school? All of our kids are defiant, but they are defiant for differing reasons.

My suggestion is to skip the behavioral clinic...they do not work well for our atypical kids. I'd take him to a neuropsychologist for 6-10 hours of intensive testing. I believe they do the best diagnosing. If he does have Aspergers or is on the spectrum, he is going to require interventions and he won't respond to normal behavioral methods.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do! Welcome to the board, but sorry you had to come

 

[Wiped Out]

Welcome,
Glad you found us as you will find much support here. I agree with MWM about seeing a neuro-psychiatric and also recommend a child psychiatrist. Sending gentle hugs your way as it sounds like you are dealing with a lot.

 

[Fran]

Can you fill us in?
Did he develop along the lines of the growth and development charts? rolling over, walking, talking etc?
Did he or does he sleep well?
Does he eat well with regular utensils?
How did potty training go?
Does he play well with others?
Does he prefer to play alone?
How does he do with other adults?
Does he color with crayons? or do sit down age appropriate activities?
What does he do to entertain himself?
What feedback are you getting from his teacher?
How does he compare with his peer group?

Getting an evaluation from either a university based children's hospital or a university based neuropsychologist would be where I would go. Not everyone who thinks they are qualified
to evaluate "unusual" kids really is. I'd go where the experience pool is larger as opposed to smaller. Treatment plans will be more up to date. That doesn't mean you can't go locally once the evaluation and plan are in place. It helps the school district feel the evaluation is more credible than a lone practitioner. in my humble opinion.

 

[DDD]

Ditto the previous responses. The earlier he has a full neuropsychologist evaluation you will be able to get supports which will increase his chances of success. I survived a difficult child like yours (minus the violence) and it was exhausting. You have my sympathy as you do your best to cope. Hugs. DDD

 

[tpalvado]

Can you fill us in?
Did he develop along the lines of the growth and development charts? rolling over, walking, talking etc?
Did he or does he sleep well?
Does he eat well with regular utensils?
How did potty training go?
Does he play well with others?
Does he prefer to play alone?
How does he do with other adults?
Does he color with crayons? or do sit down age appropriate activities?
What does he do to entertain himself?
What feedback are you getting from his teacher?
How does he compare with his peer group?

Getting an evaluation from either a university based children's hospital or a university based neuropsychologist would be where I would go. Not everyone who thinks they are qualified
to evaluate "unusual" kids really is. I'd go where the experience pool is larger as opposed to smaller. Treatment plans will be more up to date. That doesn't mean you can't go locally once the evaluation and plan are in place. It helps the school district feel the evaluation is more credible than a lone practitioner. in my humble opinion.

He did not roll over until he was 4 months, He sat up at 9 months, walked at 18 months and talked at 2 years. Then he started repeating everything that was said to him. It usually takes him a little bit to go to sleep but he will move around all night. He is learning to use his spoon and fork properly. He will still drop food though and he spills everything he has in his hands. He didn't start peeing in the potty until late last year but we are having problems getting him to poop in the potty. He still goes in his underwear. He does play with other kids but he seems more content playing by himself. He likes other adults but his teacher has been having problems with him as far as him listening to her and following the rules. She puts him in time out a lot because of it. He won't sit still in his seat and has trouble following directions. He still has a speech delay but it has gotten better. When you say something to him that he doesn't understand, he will repeat what you said to him. He would rather color on the walls then on paper. he still scribbles. To entertain himself, he plays the Wii or he watches Curious George. He doesn't do to well with board games. He wants to play it his way and if we try to explain to him how to play it, he will throw a tantrum. His teach tells us that he won't listen, he won't do his work, they have to ask him or take him to the bathroom cause most of the time he won't tell anyone he has to go. He will hold himself. He crawls under his mat at rest time, he lays on the carpet when it's story time, he was poking his paper once and his teacher took his pencil away so he started stomping his feet and then he started banging his head against the wall. I have 2 nephews who are his age and they are a lot different from Julian. They can carry a conversation, talk in full sentences, they don't run out in the street like he does. He has an appointment at a behavioral clinic here in town so I am hoping that I will get some answers

 

[Fran]

I must say that your little guy sounds very similar to my son's symptoms. There are some differences in that my difficult child was hyper verbal and really good natured except when asked to come inside or forced to do something that he simply couldn't do.
I have yet to meet anyone who's difficult child sounds exactly as mine but your little guy is close. My difficult child was a potty nightmare. He didn't even know that "sensation" meant he should go to the bathroom. It was a difficult time for our family. He was night dry before day dry. He just wouldn't stop what he was doing to attend to his bathroom needs.
difficult child still prefers to eat food where he would not have to cut using a knife. He always orders pasta or hamburger because he knows he won't have to be embarrassed that it is a weakness he has.
He poor fine motor skills. His handwriting is atrocious and is on a 2nd grade level and maybe lower. He endorses checks looks like Kindergarten unless someone cues him to keep it appropriate.
Evaluations by a multi discipline team at a university based children's hospital is the way we went.
If your difficult child is similar to my difficult child then this is not a behavior issue. The behavior is the outcome of a kid who thinks different, develops different, learns different and acts different.
I'm hoping that we can offer you some suggestions and support.

 

[whatamess]

I think the symptoms sound more autism than aspergers.

 

[JJJ]

I think the symptoms sound more autism than aspergers.

I agree. It looks like you are really close to Memphis, I would recommend calling the Children's Hospitals and finding an Autism Center and having him evaluated there. in my humble opinion, it is very difficult for someone without special training in Autism to correctly diagnosis.

1. Does he have an IEP? What services does he get? What classroom setting is he in? Did they do a FBA to establish a BIP?

2. Can you create a structure to his day so he knows exactly what to expect and when to expect it?

3. Create a L.E.E. when giving a direction= Low Expressive Environment: calm voice and as little language as possible; no tv/radio, etc. The idea is to eliminate as much of the outside stimuli so that your son can focus on the one direction you gave him (i.e. get out of the car). It may take him a long time to process what you asked him to do, how he feels about it, how he is going to do it and then to actually do it.

3. Some recommended reading:
The Explosive Child by Ross Greene
The Out of Sync Child
Lost At School by Ross Greene

And most of all, welcome to our little corner of cyberspace. I remember so vividly when Tigger was 5 and doing many of those same things.

 

[Farmwife]

Just wanted to welcome you and offer support. My difficult child has a completely different diagnosis than yours but I whole heartedly agree with the rest on the neuropsychologist. It isn't quick to get an appointment or results but it opens the doors to your mystery and guides you toward a more focused plan.

My Dad is a psychologist, I have seen a couple and my difficult child has seen a few. While they are generally well versed in various diagnosis they are not psychiatrists. I personally would want someone who leaned more toward the expert zone rather than a counselor type. A specialist in pediatrics psychiatry is the top of the line in my opinion. Since your difficult child is so young you stand such a good chance to get him what he needs if you get a clear picture from the start. You may need the distinction between a psychiatrist and psychologist on your side if the school is reluctant to offer extra services later on. (some schools are good, some not so much)

Hang in there. Though you are absolutely headed in the right direction it is a lot of work, at first. Finding the right providers and resources can be a hassle and tangle of calls, changes and what not. Then if your difficult child requires any medications finding the right ones is a time consuming process. etc. etc. Things do eventually get settled into what a normal routine can be for you so keep your chin up. I know it was hard for me personally because as soon as I made that first appointment I felt relived like everything was going to be okay and then the wind got knocked out of me every time I realized there was yet another step.

It took us about a year to get everything sorted out with getting the right doctor, finding the right medications, getitng the stupid stupid stupid school on board but we got there. Some may find balance sooner or later. Just don't give up, the answers aren't always easy to come by.

I also suggest some sort of IEP plan for your difficult child at school. If he simply cannot manage himself due to a diagnosis it hardly seems fair to have the teacher constantly punishing for being who he is and acting in ways he cannot control. That is counter productive. While "high maintenance kids" are hard on overworked teachers that is beside the point. It seems like some special resources should be set up to help him learn and develop in the ways he is capable and to offer positive reinforcement instead of always telling him he is bad. The school isn't there just to make sure he sits still, the are legally obligated to sooooo much more.

Again, welcome. This is a great forum and has saved my sanity plenty of times.

 

[Marguerite]

Whether it's autism or Asperger's, don't feel too discouraged by the label. And yes, it fits. I'm surprised by a professional who says, "It's not Asperger's," but doesn't tell you what it IS.

We did find especially in the early stages, that the diagnosis was difficult to pin down. With difficult child 1, it took ten years for the Asperger's diagnosis to be made and even then, it was challenged.

We have also found some wonderful positive attributes to our kids' autism. A lot of myths need to be dispelled - these are not cold, unemotional kids. Behind that often deadpan face, there are some very turbulent emotions running very deep. They are intensely loyal, can be very loving and generous and learn eventually that trying to tell lies is not good idea; they are bad at it. They can be very gifted but in some narrow areas of achievement. You can use this, however, to open up other areas of life for them.

Marg

 

[GoingNorth]

Also, the older spectrum kids get, the harder it becomes to distinguish exactly WHERE on the spectrum they are. For example, I was diagnosis with autism only about seven years ago. I'm fifty!

I learned over the years so much about playing "normal", that no expert can really tell just which spectrum disorder I have. I joke about being "Aspie lite" since autism runs so rampant in my family, but some specialists have told me that I'm not an aspie, but rather high functioning autistic. At this point it is kinda moot. My mother is definitely an Aspie as is her father and her brother. My (likely) father was bipolar. I'm on the spectrum and also bipolar, but the mood disorder could be part and parcel of the autism.

What I know is that kids with these disorders can do better than one could ever predict, and that I do well medicated for bipolar with the sole difference being that I cannot tolerate modern antipsychotic medications and have to take Haldol instead.

I also have a condition called dysgraphia. I can barely write but I type 90 words per minute

 

[TerryJ2]

Welcome, tpalvado.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
I was amazed and frankly, disbelieving when I read that your school psychiatric diagnosis'ed your son.
But when you answered everyone's questions, I got more info and have to agree, that if he's not Aspie, he's outright autistic.
You've got your hands full!
I know what you mean when you say you feel like he's doing things to deliberately tick you off. My son is like that, too. Yes, these kids can deliberately manipulate you. But more often than not, they "can't help it" and just do what they do because they are in their own world.
It's enough to make you scream.
Get a professional opinion (not that a school psychiatric isn't a professional, but someone in a children's hospital or psychiatric hospital) and get lots of stuff in writing.
Take care of yourself.