What is Enabling

[Scent of Cedar *]

When I speak with him on the phone...the absence as a priority of any of these, crushes me. In fact, it feels degrading. It is as if I feel abused by my son.

I so get this. The adult my child grew into is abusing my child, is dirtying the life I cherished above my own. I am enraged...and I am powerless. I listen, I love the timbre of that voice. It is a helpless feeling.

I decide to fight.

And that is when, I think that is when and how, it changes, the living breath of what passes between my child and myself.

But I do know this: When I said no. When I said no, there was all kinds of unsuspected backwash. I had become such a rigid thing. It had all become so unreal. I had become unreal. I wasn't a good mother, because look where my child was. I wasn't a bad mother, because I was ~ man, I couldn't think of anything but saving him.

Or her.

We just went through this again, on a whole other level, with our daughter.

It was like we were all on some racetrack where there was no winner and there was no end. Not even a time clock, where everyone is declared the loser and we could at least (at last) go home.

The last, slim chance, was to do nothing.

So, I did that.

And that is all I know.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I think the professional I see (who has not met my son) wants me to accept that my son is the way he is because of profound personality deficits or other psychopathology. My SO who is not a professional but knows him well thinks my son is choosing his behaviors.

Unless I am given irrefutable proof, I no longer believe in the professionals.

They absolutely hurt more than helped us, when we brought our daughter there.

There are good ones, and there are bad ones, and I think it has nothing to do with training. There can be very unbalanced people in the helping professions.

Almost, I think my life will never get better, that I will die like this: in chronic pain, despondent, in bed.

You are getting better already, Copa.

We have been where you are.

That is how I know this.

You are stating what is real as you know it to be. There will be clarification.

There will be other questions.

Somewhere between the two, you will begin to cherish yourself and your son, again. Wherever he is, whatever he's done or is doing, you will make it through this. What I see now is the courage and strength both my kids have had to have in fighting the ugliness that is.

Wow, Copa.

They are heroes.

Like me, and like you too, Copa.

It just doesn't feel like it when you are the guy fighting to make sense of something unforeseen, and so ugly.

And both addiction and illness are indescribably ugly.

It was not supposed to be this way.

It is what it is.

The job is to love ourselves and our children and all our people through it.

Somehow.

A life, atrophied, because I cannot reconcile living with my son like this. As I lose hope for my son, I am losing hope for myself.

And you will be reborn.

At least, I hope that is what is happening to me.

If my son is not capable of living differently, who can I, the only person in the world he has, distance myself? I chose him, adopted him. To me that is an eternal covenant.

I do not know a way out.

There are so many different ways to love. Loving and believing, loving and knowing better than to believe, loving and losing.

It is what it is, Copa. We are here. You hear this from us so much Copa, but we have been where you are. Here on the site, we are all in different degrees of healing. But we do have one another, Copa.

We do.

I am glad you are here with us. I am so sorry for the pain of it, Copa.

***
I know what you mean, about having been proficient in all the other areas of a life and then, waking up in this one.

Here is a question for all of us: How do those moms who do not believe they can do this, somehow ~ how in the world do they survive the losses?

...

Okay. Well, they must just decide to love their person.

Period.

Just like Child of Mine posted, earlier.

Presence.

I can't do that yet without feeling so sorry for myself, so sorry for the loss of everything.

Such deep regret!

I still suffer for the losses my kids ~ for how hard the struggle has been for them. But I don't mess around in there, now. I tell them they are strong, and that is what I do.

It's an ugly story.

It is our story. I am so fortunate to have them, and to have had them in my life.

I would take the pain for them, if I could.

Recovering Enabler told me once that their lessons are for them, are their growing places, and that I was not correct in trying to change that for them.

That was helpful to me. To see it that way, I mean.

Cedar

 

[Tanya M]

It is if I cannot bear the person he is choosing to be. My love for this child, now a man who almost, I do not like, was the strongest thing in my life.

@Copabanana , I get this. While I love my son and always will I do not like him. My love for him is purely maternal. If I were to meet him in a social setting, he is not someone I would seek out. He is extremely egocentric which is a quality I don't care for in people. Again, I will always love him and while I do not like the person he has turned into, I accept it, I accept him for who he is.

 

[Copabanana]

There are so many things I want to say, so many quotes I want to question, so much I need to say....that I cannot manage the technology. So all there is to do is cry.

I am reading. And feeling.

I love you.

 

[Copabanana]

You guys!!! This is turning into a "Hallowed Ground" thread. And I am part of it!!!!

 

[Iwantpeace]

Copa,
Your words are so heavy with pain and I'm so sorry that your going through this. Your pain and devastation comes through and my heart breaks for you knowing that terrible feeling all too well. My two cents at this point is don't try to figure it all out at once, it's too overwhelming. We can only take one day at a time sometimes we make it hour by hour. We have to find a way to replenish our strength, mentally and physically. We all have learned that worrying won't help it just makes us sick. I was in bed all weekend crying and even though I hated the thought of having to go to work today, it was 8 hours where I didn't cry or worry. So today I'm thankful that I don't have a headache from crying. I will keep you and your son in my prayers. Please take care of yourself because we have no choice but to be strong. You are a strong and loving person. You will survive this....

 

[Lil]

I cannot let go of wanting things to be better for him. That he not think in terms of better people, worse people; go back to school; not use people; not act the martyr; following through on necessary medical treatments.

Copa, sometimes you write things that I read and it sounds like me. This is exactly how I feel.

I don't want to enable my son. I don't want to rescue him. I want him to grow up, to stand on his own two feet, to take care of himself. I want him strong and capable.

But then he tells me about his life and he doesn't seem to want what's going on. He doesn't want to be homeless and have no friends and have nothing. He doesn't like his life. He's unhappy and sad and lost.

But does he want to change? He wants his situation to change...but I don't know if HE wants to change...and if he does...I don't think he knows HOW.

I do want to help. But I don't want to enable. I don't know any way to do that.

 

[Lil]

Truthfully, if I had no one else to think about besides myself, I'd have him move back in for the next 4 weeks until he leaves for Job Corps. But I would never, ever, even consider asking Jabber to do that. He'd say no and I don't think he'd be wrong. Of course, I've always been the soft touch. I'd have given him the car years ago...and he'd probably have sold it. So it's not as if I think that would be right...but my heart and my head, they say two different things.

It's stupid to even think those things. But he goes on about his life, and how he has no one and how no one wants him around...and it breaks my heart.

 

[Tanya M]

But he goes on about his life, and how he has no one and how no one wants him around...and it breaks my heart.

@Lil , I think this is what I find so crazy. It's such a common thing that is said by our Difficult Child and yet they are so blind to the fact they have family that loves them, that has gone above and beyond to help them. They have us, their parents but they don't want to see that. As for no one wanting them around, again, they are blind to how they are, how in the state they are in, they can repel people.
It's one of those things where I just shake my head.

 

[Copabanana]

They have us, their parents

My son wants us. But what does that mean to him?

That we listen to his tale of woe: How he has to live around drug addicts, in dirty, decaying places. When he has money to choose an alternative. How he feels that college students are better than he but he is better than people who talk to themselves.

How he wants us to loan him money to eat when he has used his to buy marijuana.

Support to him, means he wants us to tolerate being lied to. Over and over again.

Our support and love gives him the right to call us in the middle of the night to take him to the emergency hospital, because it is not worth his time or effort to go to the doctor, a 15 min walk.

To be supportive is to accept that he does not care whose food he eats, and how much. Their hunger or how much they worked to pay for that food is not of consequence.

To be supportive is to accept that he chooses not to work, but others have to to pay for what he unquestionably deserves.

I sound kind of angry, don't I?

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

But he goes on about his life, and how he has no one and how no one wants him around...and it breaks my heart.]

Can you see it as a time when your son is learning that outside the shelter and protection of home, real people react out of hurt or upset at the way he treats them or behaves? These are valuable lessons for him I think, Lil ~ and so far, he is learning them in a safe place. Well, at least, in a place of his choosing. Whatever the mom said, she did not throw him out.

SWOT posts to me that our kids will gaslight us. I believe this is correct. It could be that this is what is happening, here.

You can always choose to have him home.

Can you see your role in this time as giving him an opportunity to grow?

No growth without pain, they say.

He is safe, Lil. For all we know, coming home would result in an explosive back on the streets kind of upset.

For right now, he is safe.

It is hard not to want more.

But that might not be the right thing. Living this way got him to Job Corp. Continuing to live this way may be the only way to get him to actually do Job Corp, and to stick with it when he does.

I am sorry everything about this is so hard, Lil.

Cedar

 

[Lil]

That we listen to his tale of woe: How he has to live around drug addicts, in dirty, decaying places. When he has money to choose an alternative. How he feels that college students are better than he but he is better than people who talk to themselves.

I'm sure I'd find it hard even if my son had money, but he doesn't. He doesn't have many choices as the shelter only takes people in the cold unless they're long-term and since he got kicked out in January he can't go back for a year.

But I recognize that he has no money because he didn't get a job. So in the end...it's still his fault.


Cedar, your post went wonky...hope this works:

Whatever the mom said, she did not throw him out.

SWOT posts to me that our kids will gaslight us. I believe this is correct. It could be that this is what is happening, here.

You can always choose to have him home.

She's not a mom. Just a weird woman who apparently likes boy-toys...until she doesn't anymore. I do know she's moved in another young man...apparently my kid's replacement. Strange situation.

Gaslighting? No...I don't think that's what this is. Exaggeration? Maybe. He is prone to gloom and doom...and he definitely has issues with what other people think of him. He says that she told him he was too needy and followed her around like a puppy. The thing last night, he told me he just wanted to talk to her and find out why she's being like she is toward him...he does have a way of not letting go, like a dog with a bone. Maybe that's it...he won't just let go.

I can't make the choice to have him home because it's not just my home and I'd never ask it of Jabber, even short term. Not that he doesn't love our son. He does very much I'm sure. But he's ... better? ... than I am with this whole thing. I haven't gotten the detachment down yet.

If our son was just angry and mean and defiant. If he was just doped up all the time or said mean and nasty things. If he wasn't just so SAD all the time....I could detach from mean and nasty and angry. I'm not making much progress in that direction with sad and lonely and lost.

 

[Copabanana]

because he didn't get a job. So in the end...it's still his fault.

Lil, there are people who never in their whole life want to go to work, to school, get an apartment, or a better apartment, let alone clean the apartment.

And there are people with profound and fixed limitations that do all of these things.

Which is it for our sons? Does it matter at this point, now that they are adults and our role is over? Except for love....

Is wanting him to be different....do differently, simply a need of my own that I am projecting onto the situation....wrongly?

I get tangled in the weeds.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I get tangled in the weeds.

I love your imagery... You see, for the most part, if you're getting tangled in the weeds, you're swimming on the bottom, where the weeds are. You need to move to a higher level. Closer to the light, away from the darkness. There are other dangers up there toward the surface, of course. Nothing in life is simple. But, you can move out of the weeds.

 

[BusynMember]

If our son was just angry and mean and defiant. If he was just doped up all the time or said mean and nasty things. If he wasn't just so SAD all the time....I could detach from mean and nasty and angry. I'm not making much progress in that direction with sad and lonely and lost.

Your son is choosing to be sad, mean and defiant. There are a lot of people who have issues that get help and learn how to be happy. I had to do it so I know first hand. He is choosing to do nothing and get no help and use drugs. There is nothing YOU can do to make him happy. He needs help and it takes hard work.

Even if you funded him 100%, didn't make him work, let him live at home, let him do drugs under your nose...he would be unhappy because his unhappiness is deep within him where you can't reach. We are the only people who have the capacity to reach deep inside our guts and work out what is making us unhappy and to explore what will make us happier.

You being miserable for life, crying, staying in bed will only assure that YOU are unhappy too. It won't make your son one bit happier.

If you love kids, why not consider short term foster care? Why not engage with other kids? That might be your ticket. Or get involved in dog rescue, where you can also help distressed creatures and you already have one rescue...you KNOW dogs appreciate you. Obsessing over your son will help neither of you. Why should your life be ruined because he is not turning out like you wanted him to? There is more to life, even YOUR life, than your son. Why not enjoy it? You can decide to do that.

Have you ever been to GOOD therapy? I have. Not every therapist is a moron. If one is, fire her and find somebody you connect with.Check around. See several to see who you like. And, good heavens, see a woman!!!!

Don't let this ruin your life. Your son won't be better for it and you will have given up all...to accomplish nothing.

 

[Tanya M]

My son wants us. But what does that mean to him?

That we listen to his tale of woe: How he has to live around drug addicts, in dirty, decaying places. When he has money to choose an alternative. How he feels that college students are better than he but he is better than people who talk to themselves.

How he wants us to loan him money to eat when he has used his to buy marijuana.

Support to him, means he wants us to tolerate being lied to. Over and over again.

Our support and love gives him the right to call us in the middle of the night to take him to the emergency hospital, because it is not worth his time or effort to go to the doctor, a 15 min walk.

To be supportive is to accept that he does not care whose food he eats, and how much. Their hunger or how much they worked to pay for that food is not of consequence.

To be supportive is to accept that he chooses not to work, but others have to to pay for what he unquestionably deserves.

I sound kind of angry, don't I?

Oh yes, they want us but just as you said, they want us only so they can use us. They truly have yet to grasp the depths that we have gone for them, to try and help them.
There is no understanding them and how they see the world or how they choose to experience the world.

Yes, our Difficult Child want us to continue supporting them, they want to live their life on their terms but they expect mom and dad to pay for it but that's where we as the parents have the control, we don't have to support them, we have the power to say no.

Accepting their choice to live the way they want to and be the way they want to is not easy. It took me years. It took being burned over and over again.

In the rare times that I converse with my son and he goes into the pity party routine I can only be supportive to the extent that I tell him "I'm sorry you are having a difficult time, I'm sure you will work things out" Or if he has one his "gonna make a bunch of money" schemes, I just tell him I hope it works out for him.

This is not an easy journey we are on.

As for sounding angry, I would hope so. Anger is part of this. You can't get past a certain point unless you get angry. Without the anger I think parents are stuck in denial. They truly don't see how a Difficult Child can suck the life force right out of you, they just keep giving them money and doing their laundry.

 

[recoveringenabler]

I'm reading along. I'm so sorry for the pain of it.

There is a clear devastation that goes on when our kids go off the rails and we realize that all of our love, all of our money and all of our concern and worry is NOT going to keep them safe, make them happy or turn them in to healthy, contributing adults. That is a pretty powerless place to be. As mothers I think the worst thing that can happen is to see our kids in anyway unhappy and NOT be able to change it. The crux of it is that we can't fix them or their problems once they are adults. And, that pain is excruciating because we love them so much. I understand that very well having lived through it too.

I do understand that there are poor therapists and counselors. But they are not all that way. I was fortunate enough to have one incredible therapist walk me out of that devastation and right on into acceptance, a place I never, ever thought I would get to.

From where Copa finds herself to acceptance? Yes, it can happen and does. There are quite a number of former members here who have moved on because they got through the devastation and found peace, regardless of what their kids are doing or not doing. I believe without help this devastation is almost impossible to remove oneself from, it is filled with minefields which blow up continuously and without a guide, a trusted and safe guide to keep showing us the way out, I do believe we have a pretty big chance of staying stuck in the suffering indefinitely. I always strongly recommend professional help........ for me, without it, I would still be wrapped up in that devastation..... worry, fear, sorrow, guilt and misery.

For those still having a hard time, please try to find someone, a therapist, a counselor, a support group, someone or somewhere you can go to get the support necessary to find your life, your joy, your peace......you deserve that.

 

[Childofmine]

Just reading along this thread. For those of us who struggle, what we struggle with is our feelings. Our feelings are real. We love people who are self-destructing. Of course, we have profound feelings about that, and those feelings fill us up and spill over. When we are with them, and they are telling us all about their lives and their feelings, our feelings in reaction to that become overwhelming.

Usually, that is when we react and we do and say all kinds of things. I know, because I have done it, over and over and over again.

How to stop? First, do we want to stop? Do we believe that we are helping them, still? That is step one, to decide if we want to stop.

If we do, then we have to see and acknowledge what we are doing. We have to identify the cycle. We acknowledge our very real and true feelings....we decide to feel them...and then we decide not to act on them.

The feelings are still there. What do we do with these feelings?

For many of us, it is nearly impossible to hear them talk, see them in their lives, feel our feelings...and not act/react. That is where time and space and distance come in. We have to create boundaries (space, time, distance) so we don't act/react when we feel like this. Otherwise, we can't do it---it's just too hard.

This is step one. As we are in this separate time and space, we start the work. We go to Al-Anon meetings, we get help, we work hard, we use tools. We do it every single day. As we do that, we get stronger and stronger and we learn new ways of thinking. We get clearer about what we are doing. And why we are doing it.

We are what we think and what we read and what we learn. If we read different, we think different. If we learn different, we think different. And when we start thinking differently, we start acting differently. Our behavior changes.

We may still feel the same, but I have found that my feelings have changed over time as my thinking and behavior have changed.

We have to disconnect our feelings from our actions. This is huge for many of us. This is something we have never done before. I always acted on my feelings all my life---I thought this was the one true thing that I knew---what I felt.

That is why the incredible wisdom of Feelings Aren't Facts is incredible wisdom. If you have Al-Anon literature/books with you right now, look at the index in the back of the book you have and read every single entry about feelings. It is amazing how just doing that will start to help you so much.

It's not that we all don't feel the same about our dcs. We do. We wish so much that things were different for them.

We have to see ourselves as struggling people, just like our dcs are struggling people. As long as we see ourselves as different from them, we are going to be stuck. We are no different from them. If we could turn the lens onto ourselves, like we see them, we would see people who are doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I'm not at all saying this is easy stuff. It is not easy at all. But first we have to acknowledge, and then we have to work.

Here is a good post about this: http://drjenniferchrisman.com/2012/06/good-news-feelings-are-not-facts/

Warm hugs to all tonight.

 

[Tanya M]

Even if you funded him 100%, didn't make him work, let him live at home, let him do drugs under your nose...he would be unhappy because his unhappiness is deep within him where you can't reach.

So very true, I don't care how much money you throw at them it will not fix any of their issues.

 

[Tanya M]

We are what we think and what we read and what we learn. If we read different, we think different. If we learn different, we think different. And when we start thinking differently, we start acting differently. Our behavior changes.

This is a must in order to move on. I was in such a dark place back then. I didn't think I would ever get out of it or find happiness again. I knew if I was going to survive I had to change something, I had to change me.
Starting with little affirmations really helped to get the ball rolling on changing my thought process.
I think back to where I was all those years ago and it's hard to believe how far I've come, the strength I've gained, the renewed outlook I have for my life. Life is good.