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What is tough love, detachment, enabling etc?
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<blockquote data-quote="BusynMember" data-source="post: 622786" data-attributes="member: 1550"><p>Well, enabling and detaching are two different things and doing something nice for a grown child is not enabling. And I don't think it matters if it is well defined or not. We do what we have to do to survive and we all may have our own take on enabling.</p><p></p><p>One day, Suzir, perhaps you will go into more detail on what you would do if your son was choking you, assaulting you, stealing from you (in large amounts), cussing you out by using female body parts, spitting in your face (36 did this to me), continuously doing illegal activities, and blaming you for it constantly. Because I don't think you have those issues and I find it offensive that you keep criticizing our methods without telling us what YOU would do so that we can get alternative ideas. Our grown adult children don't listen to our suggestions. In fact, most of them don't want much to do with us unless we shower them with money. Some of us don't even HAVE money. You have said you do and you are fortunate, but some of us barely make it week to week.</p><p></p><p>Often the grown child may hurt us verbally or physically for even suggesting anything that may help them. I know you do have problems with a mentally ill son and it sounds severe. But he does not appear to be doing any of those things to you. If any of us had an adult child who was willing to get help, do you think we would not help him/her? If so, you are mistaken. Do you feel we should be assaulted, stolen from, our property destroyed, constantly hearing how we are a female part, etc. just because it is a grown child who did it/said it? Do you feel our hearts are not as big as yours? Are we mean? I hear your criticism. I don't hear what other options we have. If you have any, I am all ears. It is one thing for a young child to hit us...I had that and of course never thought to withdraw in any way from him as a child. Now he is a foot taller than me and much heavier and muscular. Do you feel it's the same thing?</p><p></p><p>To Lucy, detachment to me means in no way do I never talk to my son. He calls me often, more than most sons call their mothers. It means I set boundaries. He can not scream at me (and when I say "scream", I mean scream as in a toddler's scream), call me names especially the female body parts, and he can't tell me how stupid I am or what a moron I am either. I've listened to that forever and I'm done. I will hang up. I will talk to him anytime he wants to air anything in a respectful voice and is not attacking me or the rest of his family. I'm lucky in one way. 36 does not talk about his horrible childhood because he doesn't think he had a bad childhood. I feel for those who have to hear nonstop garbage about what a lousy childhood they had, when it isn't true and the other children they raised don't agree. Boundaries are a big part of detachment to me. That puts the ball in his court. He knows my boundaries and can choose to talk to me. He knows I am there. But he knows if he doesn't act with the respect I show him, he will not be able to talk to me.</p><p></p><p>Another issue is getting caught up in 36's drama, of which there is much. I choose to listen rather than give suggestions, which only set him off and make him cuss me out and hang up on ME. I've learned to just be a silent listener. There is nothing I can do to make it better. I used to run to school for him (probably too often) to get angry at teachers who complained about things he did. I would stick up for my son. I'm sorry I didn't listen more carefully to what they said. But, that is the past. I can't go stick up for him anymore. He is 36 and nobody will listen to me. He has to do things himself. And he has to make his own decisions and is unwilling to listen to an ything I say anyway. So I have learned to be a good listener unless he starts rarising his voice and cussing me out because of whatever. Never know what may set him off.</p><p></p><p>36 could never live with me again. When he did, I was divorced and he was scary, often backing me into a corner, spitting at me, threatening to hit me. My oldest daughter claims he was sexual and I will leave it at that. He racked up huge bills on our credit cards by ordering porn movies. I do mean huge (he is bright and memorized all of my credit cards, which I had at the time). Things did not really improve when he lived with his father. He shoved him around too and my ex has always been physically ill and very weak. He broke the law and the cops were at the house a few times for ex. 36 and I will never live together again and I'm rather glad he is a few states away.</p><p></p><p>Tough love means really that you either follow the rules or you can't stay here anymore and the bank has dried up. It's usually simple rules: Be respectful, don't cuss us out, help around the house, either go to college after high school or get a job, maybe pay some rent, don't break the law and don't assault anyone in the family. That leaves it up to the adult child whether or not he lives at home or leaves the home. If you think about it, it's amazing that most of them can't live up to those simple rules. Even my daughter, during her drug years, did not cuss me out, push me, attack anyone and she had a job. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I think her experiences with 36, which I didn't know about at the time, contributed to her drug use. She cleaned up her act and is the best kid a mom could ask for and we are very close. Detachment doesn't have to be forever.</p><p></p><p>The only alternative to detachment and tough love is to put up with it, ruin your own health, destroy the lives of yourself and anyone else in the family and live in fear. 36 was my first child. He was my only child for six years. He was a wanted child and doted on. I would not hear a bad word against him (such as from school). I was in serious denial that things were that bad until he decapitated daughter's doll (see the incident that shocked me out of my complacency). That wasn't until he was maybe eleven. I still never gave up on him. I did not know what was going on with his sister, who is seven years younger than him. I put him in a hospital for children at age twelve. He talked me into getting him out and, like always, I did. It broke my heart to hear him crying.</p><p></p><p>We can not do for our legally grown kids what we tried to do for our younger ones. We have no say. And as our grown kids grown older and stronger and we get older and weaker, we need to protect ourselves. 36 is not the only person in my family and he can not take up all my time anymore and I'm way out of the denial stage. All of his siblings want nothing to do with him. When ex and I are gone, he will only have his son. And, yes, I worry about my grandson, but legally there isn't squat I can do about him or his crazy ex-wife who is as bad.</p><p></p><p>We are not our children and they are not us, and nobody should be abused.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BusynMember, post: 622786, member: 1550"] Well, enabling and detaching are two different things and doing something nice for a grown child is not enabling. And I don't think it matters if it is well defined or not. We do what we have to do to survive and we all may have our own take on enabling. One day, Suzir, perhaps you will go into more detail on what you would do if your son was choking you, assaulting you, stealing from you (in large amounts), cussing you out by using female body parts, spitting in your face (36 did this to me), continuously doing illegal activities, and blaming you for it constantly. Because I don't think you have those issues and I find it offensive that you keep criticizing our methods without telling us what YOU would do so that we can get alternative ideas. Our grown adult children don't listen to our suggestions. In fact, most of them don't want much to do with us unless we shower them with money. Some of us don't even HAVE money. You have said you do and you are fortunate, but some of us barely make it week to week. Often the grown child may hurt us verbally or physically for even suggesting anything that may help them. I know you do have problems with a mentally ill son and it sounds severe. But he does not appear to be doing any of those things to you. If any of us had an adult child who was willing to get help, do you think we would not help him/her? If so, you are mistaken. Do you feel we should be assaulted, stolen from, our property destroyed, constantly hearing how we are a female part, etc. just because it is a grown child who did it/said it? Do you feel our hearts are not as big as yours? Are we mean? I hear your criticism. I don't hear what other options we have. If you have any, I am all ears. It is one thing for a young child to hit us...I had that and of course never thought to withdraw in any way from him as a child. Now he is a foot taller than me and much heavier and muscular. Do you feel it's the same thing? To Lucy, detachment to me means in no way do I never talk to my son. He calls me often, more than most sons call their mothers. It means I set boundaries. He can not scream at me (and when I say "scream", I mean scream as in a toddler's scream), call me names especially the female body parts, and he can't tell me how stupid I am or what a moron I am either. I've listened to that forever and I'm done. I will hang up. I will talk to him anytime he wants to air anything in a respectful voice and is not attacking me or the rest of his family. I'm lucky in one way. 36 does not talk about his horrible childhood because he doesn't think he had a bad childhood. I feel for those who have to hear nonstop garbage about what a lousy childhood they had, when it isn't true and the other children they raised don't agree. Boundaries are a big part of detachment to me. That puts the ball in his court. He knows my boundaries and can choose to talk to me. He knows I am there. But he knows if he doesn't act with the respect I show him, he will not be able to talk to me. Another issue is getting caught up in 36's drama, of which there is much. I choose to listen rather than give suggestions, which only set him off and make him cuss me out and hang up on ME. I've learned to just be a silent listener. There is nothing I can do to make it better. I used to run to school for him (probably too often) to get angry at teachers who complained about things he did. I would stick up for my son. I'm sorry I didn't listen more carefully to what they said. But, that is the past. I can't go stick up for him anymore. He is 36 and nobody will listen to me. He has to do things himself. And he has to make his own decisions and is unwilling to listen to an ything I say anyway. So I have learned to be a good listener unless he starts rarising his voice and cussing me out because of whatever. Never know what may set him off. 36 could never live with me again. When he did, I was divorced and he was scary, often backing me into a corner, spitting at me, threatening to hit me. My oldest daughter claims he was sexual and I will leave it at that. He racked up huge bills on our credit cards by ordering porn movies. I do mean huge (he is bright and memorized all of my credit cards, which I had at the time). Things did not really improve when he lived with his father. He shoved him around too and my ex has always been physically ill and very weak. He broke the law and the cops were at the house a few times for ex. 36 and I will never live together again and I'm rather glad he is a few states away. Tough love means really that you either follow the rules or you can't stay here anymore and the bank has dried up. It's usually simple rules: Be respectful, don't cuss us out, help around the house, either go to college after high school or get a job, maybe pay some rent, don't break the law and don't assault anyone in the family. That leaves it up to the adult child whether or not he lives at home or leaves the home. If you think about it, it's amazing that most of them can't live up to those simple rules. Even my daughter, during her drug years, did not cuss me out, push me, attack anyone and she had a job. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I think her experiences with 36, which I didn't know about at the time, contributed to her drug use. She cleaned up her act and is the best kid a mom could ask for and we are very close. Detachment doesn't have to be forever. The only alternative to detachment and tough love is to put up with it, ruin your own health, destroy the lives of yourself and anyone else in the family and live in fear. 36 was my first child. He was my only child for six years. He was a wanted child and doted on. I would not hear a bad word against him (such as from school). I was in serious denial that things were that bad until he decapitated daughter's doll (see the incident that shocked me out of my complacency). That wasn't until he was maybe eleven. I still never gave up on him. I did not know what was going on with his sister, who is seven years younger than him. I put him in a hospital for children at age twelve. He talked me into getting him out and, like always, I did. It broke my heart to hear him crying. We can not do for our legally grown kids what we tried to do for our younger ones. We have no say. And as our grown kids grown older and stronger and we get older and weaker, we need to protect ourselves. 36 is not the only person in my family and he can not take up all my time anymore and I'm way out of the denial stage. All of his siblings want nothing to do with him. When ex and I are gone, he will only have his son. And, yes, I worry about my grandson, but legally there isn't squat I can do about him or his crazy ex-wife who is as bad. We are not our children and they are not us, and nobody should be abused. [/QUOTE]
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What is tough love, detachment, enabling etc?
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