What kind of kid says he hopes you die?

Star*

call 911........call 911
Hi ya Boots -

Well here's my take on it after living with a man who literally makes some very sick incarcerated individuals look like poster children for good behavior according to myformer therapist (who is the therapist to the prisoners inside the prisons) - FWIW. People that have no conscience can't grow one. You can't guilt these kinds of people into feeling anything, teach, or make them feel something. They can emulate emotions and reactions, but that's about the closest it gets to the human function.

Something inside their genetic makeup or their maping inside their brain is so off kilter we (people that think and behave like most other people do) can not begin to fathom how someone could ever say the things these guys (and girls) do or behave like they do.

When I told my therapist just bits and pieces of what Dude has said/done to us? He told us that Dude was dangerous, unstable, wasn't likely to change, and was very much headed down anti-social road. The fact that his biofather is socio-psycho pathic doesn't help. I'd hoped the therapy and all over the years had helped but now? Meh....not so much. About two months ago Dude said some things to me that were so disgusting had I not gotten between him and DF? I think 911 would have needed to be called. When I say raunchy I mean disgusting. Yet two days later? Just like it never happened. Then "Can I borrow a dollar?" Unreal.

I had a stroke over Dudes incarceration a few years ago. I missed going to Department of Juvenile Justice visitation. DF told Dude, figuring he'd want to know why I wasn't there. Dude said "Oh....(short pause) Can I have some money for the vending machine?" So see? It's just (shrug) how they're built.

The best you can do at this point? Detach before you make yourself crazy. I think I got about 1/2 way there, but I'm determined to make a full recovery. lol

Hugs & Love
Star
 

Robinboots

New Member
That's exactly how he is.

When he was here yesterday, and I kept saying no to money requests, he asked what happened to the cash on his desk...um, WHAT CASH???? So, so delusional. Or lying. Or both.

I've heard nothing today, but imagine I'll get a text or something soon...asking for money, no doubt.
 

Robinboots

New Member
I just read your post to husband. He nodded the whole time.

I don't know, I just don't know...I'm still so shook up by the hatefulness from yesterday that I can barely function. Oh, I go thru the motions, but I'm so numb. I'm afraid if I start crying, I won't be able to stop - and not just over what he said, but all of it.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
"Mum, you missed a spot."

"Yeah, I know son. Here's the cloth - I was leaving it for you."

I'm a bit concerned at his "I wish you would die" comments. Especially at the same time (almost the same breath) as he's asking you for money. Could he be thinking that if you die, he gets a share in the estate (and hence money)? In which case - I would ensure your wills are iron-clad that any money left to him (as in, his share) is not going to be released to him until he's 25, or some other similar age. Make it as far in the future as you can, legally. Then make sure he knows. And don't tell him who is the executor of the will.

That way it is in his interests for you and husband to remain alive.

Just one way to head off the "I want you dead" ideas as well as the extreme selfishness you get in narcissism/ASPD.

Marg
 

Robinboots

New Member
I can't imagine him actually doing anything...on the other hand, I bet a lot of dead victims would say that too, if they could.

All I can do right now is wait...for the judge, difficult child's next move, whatever.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Robin -

Psychopaths and sociopaths aren't the same thing. I'd agree with my level of non-expertise for only having lived with a man who is pure evil and what is classified as a natural born killer without a conscience that they do exist, and experts even fail at picking them out of a crowd...but THEY know themselves. If you sat and talked to the majority of people in my x's family about him as a child, a teen and as a young man? They would tell you he was different, a little odd. But they would also tell you he was charming, intelligent, got his way. He's no dummy - he's just a scary individual.

With regard to figuring out is he saying I HATE YOU for shock value or does he really hate you? I guess there was an interesting discussion about that here a while back. Some felt it was a punishable statement, some felt it should be left without discussion as it would give merit to the statement. I fall into the latter category per a discussion with my therapist, but you have to understand with my son? He really has no conscience. So when he says I hate you, it means about as much to him as I love you. It took me a long time to absorb that fact and believe it because I have seen him with other people hugging, and saying things, and interacting and I think "He can, except with me." Truth of the matter - he can emulate with others and chooses not to with me unless I can do something for him, or he's getting something out of it. Again - the give to get mentality. What's in it for me? Otherwise it's a non-deal. Trying to figure out why, when it started, if it will ever stop? Makes me nuts, so I spend MY time NOT waiting (like you said you're doing) I spend MY time - detaching.

I'm not sure I could put into words what the last four months has meant to me, but I can tell you this...What my x did to me, and what he did to my son years ago? To have my son go anywhere near him now and want to have a relationship of any kind after what he now knows that man did to me? "I wish you were dead?" sounds like "Have a nice day Momma." Because the grin that has gone with his "I love you Daddy' comments on the phone in my house? Not even close to a slap in the face.

Take my advice please - use your time - and stop waiting for others to make things happen. Cut him loose, pack his stuff, and enjoy your life.
 

Robinboots

New Member
Oddly enough, probably as you were writing that, he started texting. Said he needs money for food, hasn't eaten in 3 days. As a mom, I feel terrible. When I think of how he acts towards us, and the things he said - esp. most recently, I stand firm.

I asked why I should go to any trouble for someone who hopes we die? He denied saying that. He finally called, from a blocked number, and started harrassing me. I hung up. He called back. He's trying to get me to say "I will not give you money for food". I'm quite sure he's recording or performing. He says that *I* am not the victim, that *I* am not normal. I laughed. And hung up again.

He wants to come over for money. He might show up.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
Oddly enough, probably as you were writing that, he started texting. Said he needs money for food, hasn't eaten in 3 days.

Don't give him money. Give him food. If he comes round asking for money because he has to buy food, give him some tinned baked beans and a can opener.

I'm not kidding.

Marg
 

Robinboots

New Member
Wow. THat's just what husband said as I started to read this. Called my attorney too, he said the same thing. Haven't heard a word back from difficult child.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Robin -

Margs advice is par excellence. I would also DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT and.....I swear I hate this as well...but record conversations and in order to do that you have to tell the party you are recording. Since it's a video age and things can be dubbed and edited - you are very wise to think the way you are.

If you leave food? Take a picture and an inventory. (can of beans and a can opener is good) We left Dude a list of the food shelters as well as food at times. I promise your heart is the only thing that is hurting - not his stomach. He's eating Burger King, and having a good time - his friends will see to that. When those string of friends get tired of the bull (just like you) another crop of friends will take him in. It's sad, but this is his choice. My x is 56 and is STILL living with people...sponging off them. After his Mom died? He had no steady income. (She would write him checks) and sell things. Since her passing he's been very lost. She did him NO favors supporting him all these years. He became dependent on her. Imagine your son at 56 STILL dependent on you. Very pathetic, and I can't imagine THIS kind of life going on and on and on for the next 45 years of MY life. Know what I mean?.

I'm sending you HUGE hugs......I think you're doing EXCELLENT. You have our support. and love. and respect. Really really.
Star
 

Robinboots

New Member
Thanks, Star! Got up to another text this morning, sent about 10pm. Said please and thank you this time. A tiny part of me says "awwwww" and the much larger part says "manipulative little so-and-so"!

I have considered, since I'm grocery shopping this morning, telling him to meet me there - it's within walking distance of where he's staying - and buying him a few things...jerky, trail mix, bananas. You know, in case he can't cook and all and is living in that proverbial cardboard box. Riiiiight.

But at least I know he'd for sure have food - and no money, nope, not a dime. Am wavering....
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Robin,

WHO chose NOT to live in your house? WHO chose to live BY THEIR OWN RULES? WHO will learn ANYTHING if you fix it even just a little bit? Better yet.....WHO will want to come home and have what you have and eat what you eat if you GIVE IT TO HIM anywhere else other than AT YOUR HOUSE?

DF said it to me best...and it took me a while to let it soak in. Stop playing by his rules out there, when he doesn't respect our rules in HERE. (meaning our home.) He said if OUR home was SO horrible, SO awful, SO 'messed up', SO 'whacked' - then WHY does he call us at all? WHY does he ask us for a box of cereal, WHY does he ask us for a 'couple bucks?" - Shouldn't the wonderful world he LOVES give that to him? Maybe you should remind him that HE is the one that left here saying he couldn't live under OUR roof, OUR rules and KNEW where to go that was better? I'm curious to see how much better he eats on his own.

They don't do humble very well - men. I think your son hasn't been gone long enough to ask for food and be humble about it. Maybe a list of the food pantries would be a better place for him to start instead of food purchased with money earned by people whom he wished would die.

Dead men can't buy little boys slim jims and mountain dews. That's what DF told Dude. Maybe knowing another Step-Dad said it will help you stay in a place that can help you. I don't know.

You do what's right for you hon - Either way - HUGS HUGS...and kleenex. My rhino skin too.....(recently drycleaned)
 

Robinboots

New Member
You're right. Absolutely. And he pulled this a couple years ago - told us he hadn't eaten for 3 days and we ended up taking him to the ER. 'Cause, ya know, if hadn't done something we'd be terrible parents. And naturally, there was not a single thing wrong with him. Altho that time they did keep him overnight in the psychiatric ward....

I haven't texted him back, but I'm thinking along these lines:

If you lived here, you'd have food; you chose to leave rather than following the rules.
 

Marguerite

Active Member
I have considered, since I'm grocery shopping this morning, telling him to meet me there - it's within walking distance of where he's staying - and buying him a few things...jerky, trail mix, bananas. You know, in case he can't cook and all and is living in that proverbial cardboard box. Riiiiight.

Actually, that is also what I would do. I would also send that message via text and find a way to keep a permanent unimpeachable copy (ie a copy that clearly is not doctored or mocked up by you after he collapses from malnutrition). Emails tend to be good for this.

If he wants money and not food, ten he will be scathing about tihs.

Also be careful - don't buy stuff he can on-sell. Get the can opener from an op-shop, for example. Or buy tinned food with ring-pulls.

Our church has a food drive every so often, organised by a bloke who works with homeless people. He gave us clear instructions - nothing too gourmet, aim for a balance (tubes of sweetened condensed milk, for example, a great for coffee and tea). And ALWAYS tinned food has to have a ring-pull, because homeless people don't always have a can opener.

Baked beans are great. Tinned truffles are not. Tins of soup that you don't have to water down are best - they often don't have a container to heat soup up in. I know it sounds gross, but most of the time they will eat the tinned contents without heating it up. So bear that in mind.

Forget buying tinned pet food - it is the most expensive way to buy food, all those stories of pensioners who live on a diet of Whiskas is pure media BS & beat-up. I can buy food for the family much cheaper per serve, than tinned cat food.

Fresh fruit & vegetables - great, he can't pawn that. But not too much at one time, he has to carry it and eat it before it goes off.

Other than that - nothing. As others have said (you included), HE chose to leave and not live by your rules.

I would also get in touch with NarcAnon or AlAnon for advice on how to deal with this sort of manipulative behaviour.

We can help, but you may need more 'hands on' help closer to you physically.

Stay strong, darlin'.

Marg
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
Narcanon is excellent. I learned MORE from sitting in a room full of former drug addicts about how they think, what they could do, how they manipulated and that they WERE CONSCIENCE of the fact that they were okay doing it - than I did anywhere else, except for living with my x. I think Marg has a very good point. Once you find out that there are others who ARE like this, that they exist, and your son isn't really the only one? It takes a little bit of the uniqueness and OMG shock value out of the equation for you. You go from feeling like no one else in the world has a son that would say I HATE YOU DIE...to "You too? And WORSE? Oh dear, now I don't feel so bad." because there is always someone worse off than you out there that will (sadly sadly sadly) make you feel better about your situation and actually give you a glimmer of hope. You'll also find out ~ it's quite okay to have hope.

Also - WHATEVER you decide? Whether it's to take him a sack full of groceries, or just take him a few essentials, to giving him nothing at all. It's okay. There really isn't a right or a wrong here. There's at best some sketchy guidelines, a follow your heart unwritten Mom's log, and a friends hindsight advice warning - but in the end? It's what YOU are comfortable with and what YOU can live with when your head hits the pillow at night. He is your son, not mine. I've made plenty of mistakes and will for the rest of my life I'm sure. I'm just thankful for the friends I have here that say OHHHHHH I will spank you...and then do when I don't listen or say Atta girl when I do and something finally works out. Just thought I'd add that to comfort what I know is a very heavy and hurting heart Robin. (Oh and matching RHINO shoes....whooooot)
 

Robinboots

New Member
Huh. My BFF in real life suggested AlAnon to me just this afternoon. Or did I say that already? Oops.

So, Thursday night I emailed difficult child and told him I had to grocery shop the next day and that he could meet me there. No response then, or this morning.

At 9:30 a.m. I texted him that I'd be there at 10 and would buy him some food. Nothing. No response.

Now, I could see from his phone records that he last texted Thurs at 3 am, and had been receiving texts all morning, but he didn't send any more till after 11 I think. Have to admit, I was kind of worried altho, under the 3 a.m. circumstances, of COURSE he wasn't up yet!

Nope, he didn't show at the grocery store and I was there from 10:02 until 10:33. I did keep the receipt, but dang it, forgot to take a picture.

He texted me around 3:15, asking for money; I asked why and he said for food and phone. I told him I had food, and he said he was on his way.

Knocked on the back door about 4. I let him in, and walked across the room to get the bag of food - he followed me, said "thanks, Mom" and hugged me.

WTH??????????

He walked into the living room, said Hi to easy child, who just looked at him. He talked to and petted the dogs for a minute, acknowledged the cat, and went to his room. Said N had given him a ride over here. I followed him, stood in his door while he rummaged through the desk drawers. He asked about mail, I said there was, somewhere, a letter from a college. He said no big deal. I told him I'd bring everything Tuesday, to court. He asked for money, I said no; said I had no cash. He asked me to write a check; I said no.

He left, was here about 10 minutes or so, said "see ya Tuesday".

WTH????
 

Marguerite

Active Member
OK, he tried and it failed. Did he take any food with him? No? in which case, his main need is not for food. Cash doesn't necessarily mean a drug habit, but cash is (of course) currency. And being able to buy what you want, whether it be food of your choice, or food for others, is also in there.

The trouble is, cash makes it too easy. If he's really hungry, he'll accept any offers of food and be grateful. If he seems indifferent to any food you have to offer, then he's not seriously hungry.

I firmly believe that all kids should, at some point, learn what real hunger feels like. I don't think he's there yet, no matter what he says.

But he knows you care about him and won't see him starve - so he's using the "I need food" angle to get money out of you.

Accept the good behaviour and refuse the rest. He was polite today - good. Accept it. But don't pay him for it in money.

You done good.

Here's hoping Tuesday works out.

Marg
 

Robinboots

New Member
Thanks! And yes, he did take the food. Didn't actually look in the bag, but said it looked good from the outside. I'm pretty sure N wouldn't be driving him around and not sharing food or something, but at least I feel like I did my part. I did tell him, again, that money was important and he needs to plan better.

And he was wearing his work shirt - not that he took many clothes with him, so could be a coincidence - but he said he's back working again. I couldn't figure out why he wasn't, at least since he came back to town, because N works at the same place.

I'm still an emotional basket case, and husband is working tonight - his one night a week - so a wee bit stressed out too....
 
M

ML

Guest
I hear "I hate you and why do you hate me/or why don't you love me" so much that I wrote a song called "why do you hate me"!
 
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