what should i do
- Thread starter klmno
- Start date
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
First of all...what did he do? When you say he got violent that could mean anything from he yelled to punched a wall to murder.
If it is the more "milder" violent...well...he is done, he doesnt need the prn anymore it would appear...maybe just give each other some space and if he has done damage...let him fix it when he has had time to cool off.
If it is the more "milder" violent...well...he is done, he doesnt need the prn anymore it would appear...maybe just give each other some space and if he has done damage...let him fix it when he has had time to cool off.
klmno
Active Member
i'll fill in when i can- i got him to take his medications+risperdal- unless he cheeked.
it was intermittent- and this is only the second time it's ever been this bad. I think i need to look at options- if there are any given the trouble he's in and hopeful;ly, that won't mean my bro getting custody- it woould not be in difficult child's interest, i'm sure of that.
it was intermittent- and this is only the second time it's ever been this bad. I think i need to look at options- if there are any given the trouble he's in and hopeful;ly, that won't mean my bro getting custody- it woould not be in difficult child's interest, i'm sure of that.
klmno
Active Member
Thanks, Susie. He's eating now- I gave him a whole risperdal instead of a half (.25 instead of .5), which is still low, along with his regular medications. So, if he didn't cheek them all and I don't think he did, he'll be out in about 1/2 hr to 1 hr.
There is so much going thru my mind right now, I don't even know where to begin. He was acting hypomanic (I call it hypomanic because I have seen what he's like manic and it's way worse- but I'm starting to wonder about all that). An
There is so much going thru my mind right now, I don't even know where to begin. He was acting hypomanic (I call it hypomanic because I have seen what he's like manic and it's way worse- but I'm starting to wonder about all that). An
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Well my advice would have to be contingent on exactly what is happening. Having had quite a bit of experience with problems arising at this age, I can try to help and tell you what I have done. I may still have some of my bookmarks from when I was searching for help...even in VA.
klmno
Active Member
Thanks, Janet. He's in the shower right now and I'm trying to gather my thoughts enough to be able to post more about the specifics. But my thoughts are jumping all over the place and I'm so pained over it all. This time really did get to me- I think because I feel like the only options are that he makes it at home and finds a way to stay stable or he gets to over to the state dept of corrections for god knows how long, then is released to live whever they choose, and given what I've seen from these people so far, that probably wouldn't be a place that actually helped difficult child.
My insurance won't cover anything other than acute, I have no money like that- to pay for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or anything, I have no family backing me up. I'm trying not to get on a pity wheel here, but I need to get my thoughts in order.
And still, what to do about it would be an answer that people are not going to agree on- that's because no one really knows the right answer, I think. If there was a "right" answer, we all would know it by now. It just really, really hurts to see him become so unstable so fast. Right now, I feel like no one can possibly understand. So many people treat this like... well, I don;t think people look at it like I see it. My grandmother had alzheimer (sp)- when she started showing real signs of it, dr's talked with the closest family members and tried to give them support, advice, etc. People just don't seem to do that in this situation, at least with me, because he's a kid I guess. I don;t know. It's like they don't even consider this a mental illness- but do they really think I'd be going thru all the medications, sd, dr's if it wasn't?
sorry- I'm rambling.
My insurance won't cover anything other than acute, I have no money like that- to pay for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or anything, I have no family backing me up. I'm trying not to get on a pity wheel here, but I need to get my thoughts in order.
And still, what to do about it would be an answer that people are not going to agree on- that's because no one really knows the right answer, I think. If there was a "right" answer, we all would know it by now. It just really, really hurts to see him become so unstable so fast. Right now, I feel like no one can possibly understand. So many people treat this like... well, I don;t think people look at it like I see it. My grandmother had alzheimer (sp)- when she started showing real signs of it, dr's talked with the closest family members and tried to give them support, advice, etc. People just don't seem to do that in this situation, at least with me, because he's a kid I guess. I don;t know. It's like they don't even consider this a mental illness- but do they really think I'd be going thru all the medications, sd, dr's if it wasn't?
sorry- I'm rambling.
totoro
Mom? What's a difficult child?
I am hoping he calms and remains calm. I hope you do not have to make any big decisions right now. As if you haven't had to make enough! I would start getting prepared just in case. At least prepared in your mind... which it sounds like you are doing.
Violence hoovers... the minute we get comfortable, well you know the saying.
*Sometimes rambling is good, it helps straighten things out in your mind!
Violence hoovers... the minute we get comfortable, well you know the saying.
*Sometimes rambling is good, it helps straighten things out in your mind!
klmno
Active Member
Thanks, Totoro! He's out now- I guess he didn't cheek his medications. I'm going to be pushing for some serious psychoeducation to take place.
difficult child was on board with everything until he got relatively stable on medications (he's been taking them, but says he shouldn't have to), then he decided that he didn't need medications- everything was my fault, and all I do is go to tdocs to tell them it's his fault (which is not what I'm doing), so he's tryin to tell them it's all my fault. All I'm trying to do is FIRST find a friggin therapist to explain to this kid that it is nobody's fault that he has mood cycling and he doesn't realize now because he's on medications but that he can (and should) take responsibility for trying to manage the condition and prevent it, etc. I can't believe that after all this time, all they ever want to do is the same ole s**t. Which stirs this up. And I tell them ahead of time. And they still do it. I swear I don't think it's me in denial. My son has an illness, I hope he can learn to manage it. But he'll never learn to manage it until he accepts it. He will never accept it as long as tdocs are leading him to believe that we can negotiate it or that I caused it. I know that isn't the message they intend to send, but it is the way he interprets it- like it justifies what he wants to believe. Mind you, he didn't believe this before he was put on MS's, but I think the medications have him just stable enough for him to think that he doesn't need them and he has no problem- other than me. His best shot of reducing medications and having a life with little or no mood cycling is to get out of this denial and blame and learn strategies to prevent or minimize or nip it in the bud when cycling starts. Going around in circles over my smoking is a waste of time- and you see what it leaves him thinking? And let's keep in mind- when my son gets unstable he does have a little dellusional thinking going on somtimes.
Whooooo- that was a vent!!
All this came up tonight after I told him I was glad he had his homework done, but he did need to practice trumpet. And after he acted defiant about it i told him to go to his room then, he couldn't waatch tv. And I swear, I thought he was going to kill me tonight. And while he was becoming violent with me- the things above are what I was hearing from him. earlier I said he's only done this once before- then I remebered, it's been twice before. Once was a few months after he learned that his father had chosen not to be in his life (which he later told me he had felt like I set him up by convincing him he was lovable and worth something only to find out that his father didn't think so) and then he got that way earlier this year- I can't remember what triggered that but I posted about it and I think the feedback left me thinking that it was flight or fight. If I didn't have some idea of how the rest of his life would be scr***d, he would have been out of here tonight.
difficult child was on board with everything until he got relatively stable on medications (he's been taking them, but says he shouldn't have to), then he decided that he didn't need medications- everything was my fault, and all I do is go to tdocs to tell them it's his fault (which is not what I'm doing), so he's tryin to tell them it's all my fault. All I'm trying to do is FIRST find a friggin therapist to explain to this kid that it is nobody's fault that he has mood cycling and he doesn't realize now because he's on medications but that he can (and should) take responsibility for trying to manage the condition and prevent it, etc. I can't believe that after all this time, all they ever want to do is the same ole s**t. Which stirs this up. And I tell them ahead of time. And they still do it. I swear I don't think it's me in denial. My son has an illness, I hope he can learn to manage it. But he'll never learn to manage it until he accepts it. He will never accept it as long as tdocs are leading him to believe that we can negotiate it or that I caused it. I know that isn't the message they intend to send, but it is the way he interprets it- like it justifies what he wants to believe. Mind you, he didn't believe this before he was put on MS's, but I think the medications have him just stable enough for him to think that he doesn't need them and he has no problem- other than me. His best shot of reducing medications and having a life with little or no mood cycling is to get out of this denial and blame and learn strategies to prevent or minimize or nip it in the bud when cycling starts. Going around in circles over my smoking is a waste of time- and you see what it leaves him thinking? And let's keep in mind- when my son gets unstable he does have a little dellusional thinking going on somtimes.
Whooooo- that was a vent!!
All this came up tonight after I told him I was glad he had his homework done, but he did need to practice trumpet. And after he acted defiant about it i told him to go to his room then, he couldn't waatch tv. And I swear, I thought he was going to kill me tonight. And while he was becoming violent with me- the things above are what I was hearing from him. earlier I said he's only done this once before- then I remebered, it's been twice before. Once was a few months after he learned that his father had chosen not to be in his life (which he later told me he had felt like I set him up by convincing him he was lovable and worth something only to find out that his father didn't think so) and then he got that way earlier this year- I can't remember what triggered that but I posted about it and I think the feedback left me thinking that it was flight or fight. If I didn't have some idea of how the rest of his life would be scr***d, he would have been out of here tonight.
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I think this is a big problem in treating people with bipolar. they get stablized and then think they don't need medications. Then they go off of the medications and are unstable. It is a vicious circle. One of my mom's friends has 2 children with bipolar. the daughter has a son about thank you's age and she is a nightmare. She uses the child to punish her parents. The daughter only stays on medications long enough to get stable and get custody back, then she goes off the medications and is scary and dangerous and very very unstable. They have fought this battle for many many years. Right now her parents PAY her to take her medications. Or that was the last I heard. The rationale for the problems is almost exactly what you describe your son saying.
I am so sorry you and your son have to cope iwth this. It hoovers.
I am so sorry you and your son have to cope iwth this. It hoovers.
klmno
Active Member
that's a bad situation with someone opaying another to take thei rmeds.
my son feels this way- but he hasn't stopped taking his medications. Of course, if he doesn't get a better grip on things, I feel sure he will stop when he's older and its more of an option for him.
I'm not quite sure what to do for consequences about last night. Ideas? This raging wasn't like his typical raging. And I can't say it was mania either. I've read that raging can come at either end of this- normally, his comes at the depressive end or when there's anxiety. This wasn't like that- but he had been hypomanic, so I don't know if this is raging associated with that or not. See- psychoeductaion would help a lot!! difficult child had slept about 16 hours the night before- I have seen how sleep patterns effect cycling, but I don't know if it could have anything to do with raging or not and I don't even know if what happened last night was completely BiPolar (BP) related.
my son feels this way- but he hasn't stopped taking his medications. Of course, if he doesn't get a better grip on things, I feel sure he will stop when he's older and its more of an option for him.
I'm not quite sure what to do for consequences about last night. Ideas? This raging wasn't like his typical raging. And I can't say it was mania either. I've read that raging can come at either end of this- normally, his comes at the depressive end or when there's anxiety. This wasn't like that- but he had been hypomanic, so I don't know if this is raging associated with that or not. See- psychoeductaion would help a lot!! difficult child had slept about 16 hours the night before- I have seen how sleep patterns effect cycling, but I don't know if it could have anything to do with raging or not and I don't even know if what happened last night was completely BiPolar (BP) related.
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Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Hi, Klmno. Hugs.
Maybe I missed it, but what did he physically do? Consequences depend on his actions, and while I realize he's in trouble, it may need to be something pretty darn eye-opening for him to realize you are NOT screwing around with this.
Is he willing to discuss it today? Does he realize in hindsight that he was in the wrong?
Wish I had answers for you, too.
Hugs.
Maybe I missed it, but what did he physically do? Consequences depend on his actions, and while I realize he's in trouble, it may need to be something pretty darn eye-opening for him to realize you are NOT screwing around with this.
Is he willing to discuss it today? Does he realize in hindsight that he was in the wrong?
Wish I had answers for you, too.
Hugs.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
K...Im still with Shari...what did he do besides get loud and go on a tirade?
Cause I hate to break it to you but if he has bipolar, he is going to do that from time to time. I do that! I like to think I am pretty well medicated but I still go off and scream, yell, and occasionally will put the hole in my walls. (I have done a few other things that I simply wont post) ALL THIS WHILE IN THERAPY AND WHILE ON medications!
I really am not sure exactly what you mean by psychoeducational help. At 13 it is going to be extremely hard for a kid to buy in to therapy. They dont want to think there is anything wrong with them. The teen years are hell to put it bluntly. I dont think that anyone is telling your son that his problems are because you smoke. He may be trying to lay that off on you as some sort of self protective mechanism (does he want you to quit?) so that he can get the focus off himself. Its entirely possible...and likely...that your son will go into therapy and tell them the most absurd things to get the focus off him. He would be just fine if...Mom didnt smoke, cooked pizza every nite, drove a lexus, let him wear polo, let him have Paris Hilton over for sex every night, etc. Therapists have heard it all! Heck...Cory walked into my work place at 13 and announced to everyone that he had just had sex! It was a lie...but he did it. And do trust me, he told the therapist this too. I have heard dozens of interesting things in therapy with him. I just roll my eyes.
Now...onto if you really think your son needs to be placed for some reason we have yet to figure out. Well there are ways. It isnt just Department of Juvenile Justice or giving up custody or being rich. Cory was involved with the juvenile system since he was quite young but it never effected what we did. I never gave up custody either and I am so far from rich its not funny. I worked with mental health and beat on every door I could find. I turned over every rock. I made so many calls people probably recognized my voice. But in the end I got him placed time and again. I cant say it did any good but then again I cant say if he would be even worse today if I hadnt done what I did...who knows. I can say I did everything I could so I can sleep at night.
Cause I hate to break it to you but if he has bipolar, he is going to do that from time to time. I do that! I like to think I am pretty well medicated but I still go off and scream, yell, and occasionally will put the hole in my walls. (I have done a few other things that I simply wont post) ALL THIS WHILE IN THERAPY AND WHILE ON medications!
I really am not sure exactly what you mean by psychoeducational help. At 13 it is going to be extremely hard for a kid to buy in to therapy. They dont want to think there is anything wrong with them. The teen years are hell to put it bluntly. I dont think that anyone is telling your son that his problems are because you smoke. He may be trying to lay that off on you as some sort of self protective mechanism (does he want you to quit?) so that he can get the focus off himself. Its entirely possible...and likely...that your son will go into therapy and tell them the most absurd things to get the focus off him. He would be just fine if...Mom didnt smoke, cooked pizza every nite, drove a lexus, let him wear polo, let him have Paris Hilton over for sex every night, etc. Therapists have heard it all! Heck...Cory walked into my work place at 13 and announced to everyone that he had just had sex! It was a lie...but he did it. And do trust me, he told the therapist this too. I have heard dozens of interesting things in therapy with him. I just roll my eyes.
Now...onto if you really think your son needs to be placed for some reason we have yet to figure out. Well there are ways. It isnt just Department of Juvenile Justice or giving up custody or being rich. Cory was involved with the juvenile system since he was quite young but it never effected what we did. I never gave up custody either and I am so far from rich its not funny. I worked with mental health and beat on every door I could find. I turned over every rock. I made so many calls people probably recognized my voice. But in the end I got him placed time and again. I cant say it did any good but then again I cant say if he would be even worse today if I hadnt done what I did...who knows. I can say I did everything I could so I can sleep at night.
klmno
Active Member
Thanks for the repsonses- I went to work and difficult child went to school today, then we talked a bit and he just finished dinner. He should be starting homework- I'll give him a few before I fuss about it- so maybe I can respond to some of your questions.
First- it was more than damage to the house- I've been living with huge holes in the walls and damaged doors for 18 mos now- as someone who survived a marriage to a physically abusive husband, I understand the difference. I'm not ready to type up details to post on a public forum, given that there are too many people who know that I spend a lot of time on "some" forum pertaining to difficult child issues- but , well - nuff said.
I know that he KNOWS what he did was wrong- but right now, I don't think he's concentrating on that. Which leaves me thinking that if something isn't done about it, in some way, it will happen again. The problem though, is that if I inform PO or police, he will be locked up for a very long period and if he gets out as a minor, he'll never live here again. Even that would be worth considering if I thought he'd come out a better person, but I know he won't- it''s more like throwing him away- it sure isn't getting him any closer to learning a lesson so he can become more of a typical teen who can have a better future. So there is today's delemma.
I did disscuss with him today about therapy. For one thing, the therapist that we had an appointment with for tomorrow called to reschedule until next week. But I also reiterated to difficult child that my talking to a therapist was not about blaming him- that it is not his fault, but it's not my fault either. (BiPolar (BP)- or mood cycling- not last night's incident.)
My son and I are just wierd- we don't meet the norm in many ways. For one, difficult child was sitting with psychiatrist and myself for 3 mos last year, openly discussing what was going on with him, bipolar, etc., and this did add more confidence to the decision that this was mood cycling. psychiatrist and I both knew at that point that it would be the best time to get a therapist involved who could help difficult child understand it and live with it and help me manage it, etc. And, besides for the quack, and the "Mr. go-in-circles but never get anywhere" (both SW's), the other two (both psychiatric's), it has been the traditional family therapy or efforts for individual therapy. Really, I understand how the traditional therapies work. That isn't the problem- the problem is that it definitely triggers something bad for us and I don;t think I'll survive it- and I don't think it's the answer for us if I did survive it. If it was the answer for everyone, at least half the people on this board would have their problems solved.
But, it isn't ALL there is, and there's a lot being done to try to get more effective therapies for families of kid's with bipolar. I just haven't found it yet. And I feel that I have failed my son, because now, he won't talk openly about it. (Now, the medications have made him just stable enough that he feels like he doesn't have a problem with mood cycling anymore. Like, it left and will never come back.) As I said, we are just wierd, for whatever reason, the traditional therapies make things worse for us, and this isn't the first time that it has ended up with destructive episodes. (destructive to our relationship- regardless of any destruction otherwise.) I'm sure it easy to assume that it is because of him not trying or me being afraid or whatever, but when psychiatrist was meeting with us about it last summer, we never came home feeling that way, we came home feeling like we had some direction and hope. Unfortunately, difficult child's psychiatrist will not do counseling for anyone. We were having those discussions last year as a part of difficult child's evaluation.
I've been doing a LOT of research on the different types of therapy, and I do feel better now that I have read how traditional family works from certain perspectives, but a different type works at it from a different perspective. And CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) for him individually is still important. They even have a named therapy for teaching him (us) how to monitor sleep & eating habits. Anyway- it isn't so far-fetched- NIMH did a huge study on it. Nothing I read in psychiatric or NAMI links, that was written in the past 5 years, is recommending traditional family therapy.
This other therapy starts with talking about what is going on with the person (as in symptoms), which I think would be a good way in for him because this is where ideally, someone would have picked up last year after all those talks with psychiatrist. It doesn't start with "what is the dysfunction in the family that caused this"- and it is written too many places that THAT is what traditional family therapy does. I know it works for a whole lot of people- actually, the first therapist I ever took my son to was for family therapy. He told me, after 6 weeks, that this problem was above his head.
So, about the out of home stuff- (if you made it this far LOL!) Is it possible for me to get difficult child in a place (if I did find one and want to pursue it) while difficult child is on probation and has a suspended sentence to be committed to dept of state corrections? difficult child is on this suspension until he's 21, doesn't that mean ANY placement would have to be approved by the judge? And while he's on probation, I thought the PO would have to approve it- but I'm not positive- I thought so though, because he would be moving from his current address if nothing else. What that leads to, is all of them reading about WHY I would be putting him there. That's when he'd be s****ed. And, since his behavior improved at shool, they won't pay for anything. Never mind that they had him arrested last year- they told me they recommend he stay in mainstream because he's doing so well. Admittedly, he has been doing well and showing lots of improvement, but when he snaps, he can't hurt somebody. PERIOD. I truly don't know that I could cart him off right now, but I have to do something.
First- it was more than damage to the house- I've been living with huge holes in the walls and damaged doors for 18 mos now- as someone who survived a marriage to a physically abusive husband, I understand the difference. I'm not ready to type up details to post on a public forum, given that there are too many people who know that I spend a lot of time on "some" forum pertaining to difficult child issues- but , well - nuff said.
I know that he KNOWS what he did was wrong- but right now, I don't think he's concentrating on that. Which leaves me thinking that if something isn't done about it, in some way, it will happen again. The problem though, is that if I inform PO or police, he will be locked up for a very long period and if he gets out as a minor, he'll never live here again. Even that would be worth considering if I thought he'd come out a better person, but I know he won't- it''s more like throwing him away- it sure isn't getting him any closer to learning a lesson so he can become more of a typical teen who can have a better future. So there is today's delemma.
I did disscuss with him today about therapy. For one thing, the therapist that we had an appointment with for tomorrow called to reschedule until next week. But I also reiterated to difficult child that my talking to a therapist was not about blaming him- that it is not his fault, but it's not my fault either. (BiPolar (BP)- or mood cycling- not last night's incident.)
My son and I are just wierd- we don't meet the norm in many ways. For one, difficult child was sitting with psychiatrist and myself for 3 mos last year, openly discussing what was going on with him, bipolar, etc., and this did add more confidence to the decision that this was mood cycling. psychiatrist and I both knew at that point that it would be the best time to get a therapist involved who could help difficult child understand it and live with it and help me manage it, etc. And, besides for the quack, and the "Mr. go-in-circles but never get anywhere" (both SW's), the other two (both psychiatric's), it has been the traditional family therapy or efforts for individual therapy. Really, I understand how the traditional therapies work. That isn't the problem- the problem is that it definitely triggers something bad for us and I don;t think I'll survive it- and I don't think it's the answer for us if I did survive it. If it was the answer for everyone, at least half the people on this board would have their problems solved.
But, it isn't ALL there is, and there's a lot being done to try to get more effective therapies for families of kid's with bipolar. I just haven't found it yet. And I feel that I have failed my son, because now, he won't talk openly about it. (Now, the medications have made him just stable enough that he feels like he doesn't have a problem with mood cycling anymore. Like, it left and will never come back.) As I said, we are just wierd, for whatever reason, the traditional therapies make things worse for us, and this isn't the first time that it has ended up with destructive episodes. (destructive to our relationship- regardless of any destruction otherwise.) I'm sure it easy to assume that it is because of him not trying or me being afraid or whatever, but when psychiatrist was meeting with us about it last summer, we never came home feeling that way, we came home feeling like we had some direction and hope. Unfortunately, difficult child's psychiatrist will not do counseling for anyone. We were having those discussions last year as a part of difficult child's evaluation.
I've been doing a LOT of research on the different types of therapy, and I do feel better now that I have read how traditional family works from certain perspectives, but a different type works at it from a different perspective. And CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) for him individually is still important. They even have a named therapy for teaching him (us) how to monitor sleep & eating habits. Anyway- it isn't so far-fetched- NIMH did a huge study on it. Nothing I read in psychiatric or NAMI links, that was written in the past 5 years, is recommending traditional family therapy.
This other therapy starts with talking about what is going on with the person (as in symptoms), which I think would be a good way in for him because this is where ideally, someone would have picked up last year after all those talks with psychiatrist. It doesn't start with "what is the dysfunction in the family that caused this"- and it is written too many places that THAT is what traditional family therapy does. I know it works for a whole lot of people- actually, the first therapist I ever took my son to was for family therapy. He told me, after 6 weeks, that this problem was above his head.
So, about the out of home stuff- (if you made it this far LOL!) Is it possible for me to get difficult child in a place (if I did find one and want to pursue it) while difficult child is on probation and has a suspended sentence to be committed to dept of state corrections? difficult child is on this suspension until he's 21, doesn't that mean ANY placement would have to be approved by the judge? And while he's on probation, I thought the PO would have to approve it- but I'm not positive- I thought so though, because he would be moving from his current address if nothing else. What that leads to, is all of them reading about WHY I would be putting him there. That's when he'd be s****ed. And, since his behavior improved at shool, they won't pay for anything. Never mind that they had him arrested last year- they told me they recommend he stay in mainstream because he's doing so well. Admittedly, he has been doing well and showing lots of improvement, but when he snaps, he can't hurt somebody. PERIOD. I truly don't know that I could cart him off right now, but I have to do something.
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