What should we do

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by SandalsNShades, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. SandalsNShades

    SandalsNShades New Member

    Hi all, I can't believe I finally stumble upon this portal. To cut a very long story short, we are an asian family with 3 kids living in Asia. My girl is 22, son 20 and my youngest son is 9. My 20 yr old son has clinical depression, refuses help and medication apart from seeing his counsellor occasionally. The whole family is very affected by his behavior of not going to school nor get a job as he's in his room all day, has terrible sleeping hours, and blaming us for his depression. He often talks about wanting to die though he hasn't attempted. Things have gotten so painful especially when he picks on me by implying I am a terrible parent. What disturbs me is that my son is into gay porno and I have found evidence of it lying around. On top of that, I also found him talking to himself very audibly in his locked room. In my country, an adult has to agree to treatment inorder for any hospital to ward him. I am extremely worried that he is becoming schizophrenic. I am also worried how this would affect my youngest as both boys are close. On top of all these, I am concerned that my youngest may stumble upon his brother's porno materials. Pls advice if we should separate ourselves from my depressed son.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry you are hurting. I'll answer quickly...have to go b ut don't want you to feel alone.

    I'd throw out all gay porn and tell Son that if he wants to live with you:
    1/No more porn period (if he is gay, he is gay. You can't change that. I wouldn't bring it up because if he feels guilty about it, he will only feel more depressed. And he can't help his sexuality. Let that go. JMO)
    2/If he is not respectful, he needs a consequence...maybe again he will have to leave or else you will not pay for his things. I don't know about your country, but twenty years old is an adult here and most twenty year olds do pay for much of their own things.
    3/Talking to himself can be serious. Make sure he is not hallucinating. Take him to a good psychiatrist if he is willing to go. If he won't, you can also set limits and consequences. "You can live with us, but only if you receive help."

    Question: Are you sure he is not using recreational drugs? That can make our adult children REALLY act crazy, lazy and abusive to us.

    I'm sorry for your hurting heart and hope your son will respond to boundaries if you are able to set them. I hope he chooses to follow your house rules.

    Hugs from the U.S!!!!
  3. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I really don't know how to help your son, but is it possible that you and your husband could see a counselor and get advice and learn what type of help is available where you live.

    Do you think he is depressed by his possible sexual orientation? In some areas it would be hard to be openly gay. I think I would deal with the porn matter of factly. I would say, I have noticed your magazines left out in your room. While I don't like then, I would appreciate you keeping them in a secure, private place. Otherwise, I will discard any that other family members might come across.

    Of course, my opinion comes from the culture I grew up in and evolved from. Please keep in touch. I love the people here who will probably give you more and better advice. KSM
  4. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Welcome SnS, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. First, know that you are not alone and you are not a terrible parent. As parents we have all made mistakes but ultimately we all do the very best we can. It is not at all uncommon for an adult child to blame us for their lives not being good.

    You live in a different country and culture than I do so forgive me if I do misunderstand your customs/culture.

    If it were me and I found porno material I would collect it all and get it out my house. I make the rules of what comes into my home and that would not be acceptable and I would make that very clear.

    Your son's depression may be from his sexual identity in that he may be very conflicted about how he feels.

    What is the legal age of adulthood in your country? If your son is of legal age then you could tell him he has to leave.

    One of the most important things you need to do is set clear boundaries as to what is acceptable and what is not.

    You can tell him something like this:
    If you are going to continue to live here then you have to seek help for your depression and take your medication.
    You cannot bring any porno in this home.
    You will speak to us with respect.

    You get the idea. Unless you have clear boundaries of what you will and won't accept it allows for him to continue doing whatever he wants to.

    Hang in there!!
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome. This is all just my opinion, of course, and I'm just another parent. Take what you can use of what we offer - you are the expert on your situation.

    You're either dealing with a drug use situation, or with a mental health situation, or both. If it's drugs... it makes it almost impossible to know for sure if mental health is a problem or not, as drug behavior can mimic many mental illnesses. First approach would be to drug test him - ideally a hair sample test or similar, that tracks usage over time, as some drugs are out of the system fairly quickly.

    If it isn't drugs, then it's probably mental health. Could be depression, bi-polar, or something on the schitzo spectrum, for starters. Depression in males can be a mask for anger. There may be all sorts of experiences in his growing up that you don't even know about. OR, depression can just be a hormone imbalance, without a specific cause. The others are illnesses, and require medical intervention, which may or may not be possible.

    For starters, I'd get rid of the locked door. If someone is unstable, the last thing you need is for him to be able to barricade himself in his room, and HIM deciding when he comes out and what he does. If he is going to live in your home, he has to be OPEN, and that means, no locked door on his room. I would also rule that there is no technology in his room. I know, I know... young people these days LIVE on technology. But... when it affects health, it's time to say no. Technology use must be limited to outside of the bedroom - and only during normal waking hours. Can you shut off your computer access at night? He'd still have his cell phone, though... some parents lock up ALL the family cell phones at night, not just the kids... as a way of controlling access.

    What kind of resources are available in your country? Do you have help phone lines around mental health, etc. that you could call for advice?
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  6. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    HI SandalsNShades, welcome to our forum and so very sad for your need to be here. Nevertheless, it is an excellent place for you to be, there are so many of us here, with similar situations, at varying places along this journey. We have hope and dreams for all of our children, when they get into this kind of challenge, it is heart wrenching.
    First of all, the blaming is so unfair. It is a component most of us have faced, and I think of it as a way our adult children do not have to look at themselves in the mirror. Shame is a tough emotion to handle, blame is so much easier. Please do not buy into this. We are not perfect, we make mistakes. All of us can look back and wish things were different in the past, but the past is the past. There is no redo. So, hold onto the thought that you did the best job you could to give your son the tools he needed to launch. He hasn't launched for some reason.

    Please do not accept this. My two are the same. My hubs is a bit more lax in his approach, so I am the target. This is usually the case with our adult children, it is called triangulation and keeps the family locked up in the drama of it all......
    This is concerning, I agree, a locked door is not good in this case. Our kids need privacy, but when privacy is an issue......
    This hits home with me SNS. My two D cs were in and out of my household in our attempts to "help" them. Meanwhile, my now 14 year old, grew up within the chaos. It has been 4 months since the exodus of my two, and my 3 grandkids, my boy has gone from never wanting to be home, to feeling the peace within we are all feeling. It is hard, of course we worry for our two, but they are adults and we have found they will choose their path, be it in our home, or not. I have found this to be true, and now realize that my raising of them is done, and my concentration belongs on my minor son. ANYTHING, that jeopardizes his peace in the home, his ability to have some normalcy, is not acceptable. PERIOD.

    So, my dear, you have a lot to ponder. There are many folks here, who have struggled with similar issues. I am glad you have found us. We post here, it helps us on this journey. It is sad there are so many of us, but I have found it to be a soft place to exchange ideas and stories that are helpful to try to find answers, as well as vent, sift through advice, and find what works. Each situation is unique, there is no right or wrong path, just empathetic, loving, kind folks reaching out across cyber space in very tough situations. What you decide is up to you, we are all in this, because we care for one another and our children.
    Welcome again dear, stay with us and keep posting. It helps to research and find answers elsewhere, too. Here in the U.S. there are many groups to be found to get relief and understanding and answers.
    There is an article on detachment in this forum..
    it has helped me to read it often.
    One of the things that happens when things "go south" with our kids, is we begin to get so entangled with the drama and chaos of it. We begin to lose ourselves.
    Take very good care of yourself. You have value, you matter. It is especially important, because of your young son. He needs you still.
    I know it is hard, because we view the young one, and long for that simplicity and innocence with the older sibling.
    It is what it is. The fact that you are here, shows that you are seeing this, the impossible craziness it has brought your household into, and seek solutions. It is a very huge step. You are headed in the right direction, seeking solutions and peace in your home.
    It will be okay SNS, you will find answers. Breathe. Have faith and build yourself up.
    You are not alone.
  7. SandalsNShades

    SandalsNShades New Member

    Hi guys, appreciate all your love, care n advise. I had left out some details in my post previously. Some of you are spot on. My son does struggle with his sexual identity n it is extremely difficult in an Asian society as well as we are a Christian family . However, I have told him I would rather have a guy son than a dead son.

    My son was very difficult as a toddler but he had an exceptional memory. School was a breeze in elementary school until he went to high school n had problems coping. As a 13 year old boy, he was crying nightly for 6 months. That was when we had him assessed by an educational psy who diagnosed him to be an Asperger. But things were not adding up as my son is very articulated, very good at reading facial cues etc n he writes exceptionally well. However, he was just not coping in his school work. By the time he was 18, he dropped out from school as he was unable to sleep, feeling anxious and often falling ill. Prozac was prescribed n he toOK it for a while. His online gaming got intense n he just spiralled down.No desire to do much but to eat, sleep n go online. Also told us he's v miserable n eventually hopes to kill himself. Then he stops going to church, calls himself an atheist yer still unhappy. Any suggestions or encourage mentioned to engage in activities to help himself was met with hostility n would end up either in a shouting match or have him walking off from us.

    As this was all getting too much for me to cope, I started psychotherapy. My therapist met with my son on a few occasions n eventually told me he thinks my son is not an Asperger but a Schizoid. I hadn't even heard of this disorder before. But I didn't tell son as he is already feeling bitter than he is an Asperger. One thing peculiar about son is that he remembers every unpleasant thing that has happened to him since he was a kid. He remembers the exact words spoken to him , the exact facial expression the perpetrator had while speaking to him. So all memories haunt him as if they just happened yesterday. He doesn't forgive because he says it's easier to be angry than to forgive. Even his counsellor has run out of ways to help him. However, he doesn't want to see someone else as he's tired of repeating his life stories n he can't trust anyone with his stories. Sorry to go on and on. Because, there's no one else in my life now who can advise me as my family has tried everything.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, it is best if you accept his sexual orientation completely and tell him so. Even if it's not true, maybe it WILL be true one day, and if he feels badly about it, this could help him a little bit. I would not push him to have a religion. So many are very unfriendly to gay people and he probably feels more ostracized when he participates. Maybe one day he will find a way to keep some religion in his life even though he is gay. I could be wrong, of course, on all of this. It is my opinion and a different culture from yours.

    In the end, it is up to him to decide to get help and do what he needs to get well. Again, if he is a legal adult, there is really nothing you can do for him. He has to do it himself. Maybe if you back off he will go for help again. What I mean is...if you are begging him to go or nagging him to go sometimes that can backfire.

    More hugs for your hurting heart.
  9. Hopeful97

    Hopeful97 Active Member

    Hi SandalsNShade, Welcome to this site. This is a great place to talk, unload or whatever you want to call it. I feel your pain. We had to put Difficult Child out at 18 he dropped out of school and has mental illness and other problems. I wont get into all that, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. After reading and talking with all the warrior parents on this site I have come to the realization that we did the best thing for our Difficult Child, I constantly pray for him and have hope that he will eventually be able to ..... function in society (for lack of better terms). Yes he is only 18 and we tried desperately to help him through the years starting around age 9. Thing got really bad most of his anger directed toward me, which I am learning is usually the case the anger usually comes more rapidly at the mom (why who knows). The disrespect and horrible things that Difficult Child s say to us is unacceptable.

    When we made our Difficult Child leave, there was and still is at times much guilt. There have been lots and lots of tears. I am not going to say it gets easier it is all extremely sad and heartbreaking. But one thing that I have now that I did not have before is peace in my home which we have not had in a very long time. Difficult Child has been out of our home since early September. I had totally forgotten what it was like to have peace in our home, it is very comforting and in a way reassuring. There was no contact for the first 2 months and that distance allowed me time to process and think things through. I found this site and read for a long time before I posted. This site gave me a lot of insite and courage - helped me to come to sort of an acceptance and helps me sometimes daily. The people here are very encouraging, accepting and loving. I encourage you to keep posting. My self esteem was extremely low in fact I don't know that I had any left, this site has helped along with other tools.

    I would definitely let Difficult Child know that porn of any kind is not acceptable in your home. You have to look out for your younger children and it is your home.

    When our Difficult Child s become adults it is still very difficult for us, sometimes I think it is more painful. Sometimes the pain feels physical as your heart continues to unbelievably break. I understand your heartache.

    There is an article on detattachment on this forum it is very good and I read and reread it all the time. I don't know if they have Al Anon in your country but if they do I highly recommend.

    We are Christian also, hold on to your faith. If it wasn't for our Lord I would not be here....he has been carrying me a very long time.

    It is your decision what to do - take what you need from this site.

    I got a really great idea from this forum and it is to start a sort of toolbox to help you. In that tool box I have things like: Prayer, the Bible, other Books (Codependent No More by Melody Beattie is very helpful), take a walk, take a nap, sitting quietly looking at nature, just being, just breathing, meditation, read article on detattachment, buy flowers and put on the kitchen table, Al Anon if available.

    Sorry, this is so long and I was sort of all over the place......

    My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your entire family.


    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  10. SandalsNShades

    SandalsNShades New Member

  11. SandalsNShades

    SandalsNShades New Member

    Hi hopeful 97, i hope this is the right way to reply by just typing under yr post. Thkq si much for yr comfort. I feel every word of yours resonates in my heart. Truly, without God where would I be. Hugs to u.
  12. SandalsNShades

    SandalsNShades New Member

    Hi Somewhere Out There, thkq for yr advice. Yes, I have come to accept my son's sexual orientation n I know I can't force him to be a Christian. That i hv peace. It's just painful to see him spiraling without wanting any help n one day I may lose him to suicide. Hugs to u
  13. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    SandalsNShades, I wish that you could find a Christian group in your country that accept people with different sexual orientations. It is happening more and more, at least here in the states. I think once his mental health issues are addressed maybe he can see the values in the belief system he was raised in. A young man in our church came out as being gay, attended seminary, now in a committed gay relationship and is an assistant pastor. Not in our church, as some or our congregation has a ways to go... But it is happening!

    Wishing you the best in the new year. KSM
  14. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    Hi - I am so sorry you are going through this. It is hard worrying about the possibility of suicide. It does sound like your son is dealing with mental illness and I am sure his questions of his sexual orientation in a culture that is not accepting of that makes it more difficult for him.

    My take is the best thing you could do is to back off.... I don't think at this time I would make an issue of the porn. I would tell him that you don't want your younger child to come across it and if he is going to have porn he needs to keep it out of sight. I would do whatever you can to connect with him which I realize is really really hard given his mood and his behavior. Let him know you love him and that you will help him get help when he wants and is ready for it..... And then you have to do whatever you can to take care of yourself. This is really hard and it is hard not get totally obsessed with worry about your son, losing focus on everything else in your life. So let him you know you care but then model taking care of you!
  15. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Now I think you son is depressed why is that well the problem is it could be countless reasons a big problem is that there way to many reasons for being depressed. Its certainly very very hard for people that are more prone to depression as at least in my experience it never disappears once you have it you will forever have it will not always be sever and could be mild to put it like that but you will have it.
    There is no person that suffers from depression that I know of that ever got rid of it. But it can be reduced to a manageable level and you can lead a normal life with the exceptions of certain days.
    Now I do not think you son has issues with drugs after all if he is all the time in the house and in his room how can he get drugs those require you to actually go outside.
    On why he is talking alone well again I think its because of the depression yes its one of the symptoms of hating yourself you express you thoughts. For example did you ever swear or said bad things about yourself when you filed at something, when you got hurt when you had tragedies in your life when you do not like something at the TV and you swear.
    Its like that but way more often. He needs help and a better therapist. Now you can not force someone to get help well you can if you are the state by medicating a person with psychological issues so he can reach the state of mind where he can make his own decisions not clouded by is psychological issue. It was done before in USA and is still done in other parts of the world.
    But even so this where special cases for dangerous individuals in you son's case you can make it uncomfortable for your son not to get help. But before that contact your son current therapist as good as he is and ask for his professional opinion if this will or will not push him over the bridge so to speak if you make it harder for him to continue the current lifestyle?