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What works for you? Help with lying/manipulative teen needed.
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<blockquote data-quote="Otto von Bismark" data-source="post: 700432" data-attributes="member: 12905"><p>My son had conduct disorder. He has graduated to antisocial personality disorder, unfortunately, since he is now 18. As a parent of someone whose brain is not wired to feel guilt, remorse, or to be able to imagine how others may view things, discipline was very difficult, since punishments were meaningless. They didn't make him feel bad, but were instead something to just wait out. We had to device a structured system for him that involved rewards only. </p><p></p><p>So...no "if you do X you will be grounded/lose privileges/have to chores." That never worked for him.</p><p></p><p>But instead, "If you do X, you will be able to have TV time tonight/go for ice cream on Friday/rent a video."</p><p>We drew a hard line of absolutes for a few particular behaviors that were extreme (our son's were extreme and involved child pornography), but he knew these hard lines in advance. If you do ___, I guarantee that _____will happen as a result and you won't like it.</p><p>The problem with that is he eventually began to measure if the consequence was worth the infraction, and it often was. </p><p>We also didn't deal with any kind of attacks or violence, either physical or emotional. Our son is very chill, strangely.</p><p></p><p>Counseling NEVER WORKED FOR HIM. My son, despite his low IQ, was able to manipulate every counselor into thinking he was doing better, and had made changes at home, etc. He used sessions to feel good short-term (like a day or two) because he loved talking about his problems and hearing his counselors talk about him, but he would never do any of the work it required. </p><p></p><p>At the risk of becoming co-dependent and protecting him from natural consequences for very bad behavior, you might have to think about when you are going to draw a line for your own and your family's safety. Sometimes the natural consequence is the only thing that will help. For example...if violence becomes an issue again, call the cops. Your son can deal with the consequences. </p><p></p><p>Something else I did -- and this will speak to how I handle my feelings about our very, very difficult child-- is I have pretty much divested. I kind of treat him like a patient at this point. I am kind. Loving. Attentive. Emotionally distant. When he does something bad, I no longer have emotions about it.</p><p></p><p>If something is going on, I mostly respond with logic, like it's a problem to be solved at work. I treat him like a client. "Ok, so you stole an electronic device from a relative and hooked it up to our WiFi and downloaded child porn again, even though federal agents can literally bust in our door at any moment because WE ARE ON A LIST...okay. I will log it in behavior log I keep, so when the cops come, my husband won't be the one going to jail." </p><p></p><p>When my son downloaded child porn at school and the school called me, I told them to call the police. I would meet them and discuss it only when the police were there. I then invited them to press charges. My own health, which has been fragile ( heart surgery in this year), is not worth damaging for a child who will never change.</p><p></p><p>All kids are born on their own trajectory, and some won't accept our steering or guidance, sadly.</p><p>I cry about this at night sometimes, but I don't let it get to me from day-to-day if I can help it. I treat it like a job. My son did not ask to be born with the brain damage he has. I must treat him with compassion. He is not happy that he is a sociopath. He wants to be like everyone else, so this is very, very sad. Still, I can't coddle him, and I can't get angry at him for his behavior because it has never changed, no matter our herculean efforts, and the older he gets (now 18) the more we realize it is truly a brain disorder, and not a behavior choice, in our case. </p><p></p><p>I guess if you can get to a place where you don't have to react emotionally to his behaviors, you will have more energy to protect your other kids, and he can still get the support he needs from you, but it won't drain you to death. </p><p>Don't let him go to his dad right now if you guys are the only ones fighting for him. </p><p>Best to you. Stay in touch.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Otto von Bismark, post: 700432, member: 12905"] My son had conduct disorder. He has graduated to antisocial personality disorder, unfortunately, since he is now 18. As a parent of someone whose brain is not wired to feel guilt, remorse, or to be able to imagine how others may view things, discipline was very difficult, since punishments were meaningless. They didn't make him feel bad, but were instead something to just wait out. We had to device a structured system for him that involved rewards only. So...no "if you do X you will be grounded/lose privileges/have to chores." That never worked for him. But instead, "If you do X, you will be able to have TV time tonight/go for ice cream on Friday/rent a video." We drew a hard line of absolutes for a few particular behaviors that were extreme (our son's were extreme and involved child pornography), but he knew these hard lines in advance. If you do ___, I guarantee that _____will happen as a result and you won't like it. The problem with that is he eventually began to measure if the consequence was worth the infraction, and it often was. We also didn't deal with any kind of attacks or violence, either physical or emotional. Our son is very chill, strangely. Counseling NEVER WORKED FOR HIM. My son, despite his low IQ, was able to manipulate every counselor into thinking he was doing better, and had made changes at home, etc. He used sessions to feel good short-term (like a day or two) because he loved talking about his problems and hearing his counselors talk about him, but he would never do any of the work it required. At the risk of becoming co-dependent and protecting him from natural consequences for very bad behavior, you might have to think about when you are going to draw a line for your own and your family's safety. Sometimes the natural consequence is the only thing that will help. For example...if violence becomes an issue again, call the cops. Your son can deal with the consequences. Something else I did -- and this will speak to how I handle my feelings about our very, very difficult child-- is I have pretty much divested. I kind of treat him like a patient at this point. I am kind. Loving. Attentive. Emotionally distant. When he does something bad, I no longer have emotions about it. If something is going on, I mostly respond with logic, like it's a problem to be solved at work. I treat him like a client. "Ok, so you stole an electronic device from a relative and hooked it up to our WiFi and downloaded child porn again, even though federal agents can literally bust in our door at any moment because WE ARE ON A LIST...okay. I will log it in behavior log I keep, so when the cops come, my husband won't be the one going to jail." When my son downloaded child porn at school and the school called me, I told them to call the police. I would meet them and discuss it only when the police were there. I then invited them to press charges. My own health, which has been fragile ( heart surgery in this year), is not worth damaging for a child who will never change. All kids are born on their own trajectory, and some won't accept our steering or guidance, sadly. I cry about this at night sometimes, but I don't let it get to me from day-to-day if I can help it. I treat it like a job. My son did not ask to be born with the brain damage he has. I must treat him with compassion. He is not happy that he is a sociopath. He wants to be like everyone else, so this is very, very sad. Still, I can't coddle him, and I can't get angry at him for his behavior because it has never changed, no matter our herculean efforts, and the older he gets (now 18) the more we realize it is truly a brain disorder, and not a behavior choice, in our case. I guess if you can get to a place where you don't have to react emotionally to his behaviors, you will have more energy to protect your other kids, and he can still get the support he needs from you, but it won't drain you to death. Don't let him go to his dad right now if you guys are the only ones fighting for him. Best to you. Stay in touch. [/QUOTE]
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