KTMom91

Well-Known Member
Karate was a wonderful thing for Miss KT. I started her when she was 7, and she stayed with it and earned her black belt several years ago. She dropped karate when she started high school, since we were concerned that karate and marching band would take all her study time.
 
You are describing what I go through every day to a tee!!! Are we all doing something wrong or do our kids all have the same problem? And if so, WTH is it?
 
I love your quote about dinner and I have this problem with difficult child every night-but doesn't Greene say in The Explosive Child not to argue too much or make a big issue over food? I'm not sure what to do but he's down to eating nothing almost.
 
I have been hearing so much about this diet recently and want to try it. Can you recommend any books for someone new to it? I will try anything. Thanks.
 

amazeofgrace

A maze of Grace - that about sums it up
not alot of answers here, which is why my kids are killing me these days

difficult child II (11) used to be able to be distracted but now that he is older he's caught on to that. Rewards make him obsessive compulsive and he can't focus on what he needs to do to get the reward, just having the reward

difficult child I (17) does not respond to punishment or rewards. He will not let outsider help him with school work and knows how to "say what you want to hear" very well
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Hi Jules,
sorry I'm a day late and dollar short ... just wanted to send hugs and hope.
What works best with-me is to write things down, to completely take myself out of the picture--my voice, my body, everything. Then I hand difficult child the list and walk away. He balks--yells, argues, negotiates, calls me names. And I just keep on walking. Usually, if there's some kind of reward or punishment involved, and on rare occasions, if he's in a compliant mood, he'll do the list and I won't hear another word about it.
I noticed today that he argued with-his friend the exact same way he argues with-me. I am going to watch him closely to see if this is male/female or not.
At any rate, best of luck and let us know how it goes. We all need a shot in the arm every now and then. (Excuse the expression. :) )
 

Marguerite

Active Member
Amazing. Nobody has mentioned The Book yet.

It's "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It's not a cure, but it is perhaps the best thing that has helped us.

Your child wants to be in the driving seat? Well to a certain extent, this book shows how to let him, but with you still steering (quietly). Sometimes this helps your child learn that you really are trying to help and not hinder, and sometimes they really can handle a lot more control than we really knew, as long as it is with some supports in place.

It sounds anarchic but is actually the opposite. By giving them control in areas that really don't mater, and making sure that you only discipline for things they genuinely can control and can change as well as making the discipline more relevant and above all, effective - you can begin to turn around the negative, oppositional behaviour. Along the way the child learns personal responsibility, which I love.

There is some good discussion on this and how it works, in Early Childhood forum.

A big part of the "I treat you like everyone else" behaviour is that these kids really do not distinguish between adults and children - for these kids, everyone is equal. REALLY equal. Everyone. They also will give back the behaviour they receive, which means that if you use the "Because I'm the parent" approach, they will use it right back at you. To change from this is such a major clash of mental gears for so many adults (especially those who rely on being a figure of authority most of the time) that a lot of adults just don't 'get it' and will fail simply because they CAN'T take that step back and let the child make some decisions.

The apparently bossy behaviour can be really annoying, but you need to recognise that it has come form a combination of the child simply not 'seeing' class differences, plus our own past manner of treating them. So you need to put up with it to a certain extent, as you try to turn the problem back around and deal with it in this new way.

How would you handle that behaviour if it wasn't your child but a co-worker instead? Or a regular customer in your store? Or a flatmate? I find that if I keep a mental picture of my child as a flatmate instead of someone who has to do what I say, I get on better (and get what I want from them more effectively with fewer hassles).

Keep in mind - what is your ultimate aim for your child? If you are like many of us, your ambitions for your child is for him to grow up to be independent, happy, fulfilled, stimulated and productive. In order to achieve this, he needs to learn life skills in basic personal care (cooking, cleaning, washing, work ethic) as well as good social interactions (getting on with others). He also needs enough of an academic education to be able to get the job he wants in the career path of his choice/capability. This may not be your choice - you need to accept this. But it DOES have to be HIS choice. You can't push a child to become a lawyer, if despite having a genius-level IQ all he wants in life is to be a hairdresser. Or a mechanic. I have a very bright nephew who chose to become a car mechanic - he's one of the best, because his meticulous eye for detail plus his high intelligence gives him the satisfaction he needs in something he loves.

It takes a lot of effort sometimes, to make it all seem so effortless. It's also a darn good idea to get a thorough evaluation done on the child. Some kids really are very bright and see other people (including adults) as brainless idiots. They don't suffer fools gladly and let their scorn show. This will not help them get on in life. They need to learn that while they may be smarter than 99% of the population, they are not as experienced or as wise. And for many of them, this is a discovery they have to make for themselves; you can't punish them into it. But if you can be their facilitator instead of their obstacle, you CAN talk them through it.

difficult child 3 was arguing with his father today. He had nagged husband once too often and husband snarled at him as difficult child 3 began to say, "I do not appreciate it when..."
husband was fairly sure difficult child 3 was about to say, "I do not appreciate it when you do not do what I tell you." husband had moved apiece of equipment carefully, but in a way difficult child 3 had feared could break it (and would have, if it had been difficult child 3 moving it).
I took difficult child 3 aside (mid-whinge about how RUDE Daddy was) and told him firmly, "Dad is annoyed with you because he is the father, you are the child. It is not your place to criticise him about the way he moves HIS equipment around. He tries to be patient but you have been critical just too often today and he has run out of patience with you."

Even though he is 14, even though we have been working on this for some time, difficult child 3 still didn't really 'get' this because it is just too alien for his brain to accept - in his mind, everybody is equal. We are currently working on "younger people must respect the experience of older people and take it into account - experience throws equality out of balance when you are talking about expertise" and slowly making progress.

He needs to see it in an almost mathematical form, like a diagram on paper.

I can only correct difficult child 3 to this extent, this firmly, now after all the work we've ben putting in with "The Explosive Child" over the last couple of years. It IS working, we see good progress in a lot of areas, but in some things he simply hasn't got the brain maturity to understand despite having "a brain the size of a planet" like the robot Marvin in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".

There are nice things about him too, which are also part of the same problem - he's honest but believes other people are just as honest and trustworthy. You can't tell him, he has to learn it the hard way. Currently we're playing "Civilisation" (computer game) which is teaching him the more complex aspects of diplomacy.

You need to change the way you do things form the typical "this is what a parent does" to whatever works. Think outside the square. Find things that work. Dump what doesn't work. Keep modifying and adapting because as the child gets older (and more capable) you need to keep up. Sometimes what didn't work when he was younger, will work now. And vice versa.

Maybe I'm feeling a bit smug because this evening I had a long talk to easy child 2/difficult child 2 which gave me the encouragement that perhaps we have finally turned the corner with her on behaviour, health, attitude etc. husband saw her in her workplace today (she didn't see him) and she was clearly working well and effectively in her new (originally short-term) position supervising a sales team in a new store. husband said the other staff were looking content, concentrating on their work, willingly approaching her when needing guidance but getting back to the task without delay - all the things he knows to look for.

Tonight she told me that although it had been made clear to her that this position was only until they trained more permanent staff, they have now asked her to consider taking this supervisor's position on permanently because she is working so effectively and the new shop has far fewer problems than they anticipated.

The one thing that has been really worrying us over the last 18 months or more with her, besides her health, has been her attitude with other people. She can be a right little vixen and totally unreasonable when she doesn't get her own way, it has seemed. And now - all gone. At last the final piece of the puzzle has fallen into place in her head and she is about to lose all difficult child status. If she can manage a new store, not antagonise staff under her or those above her AND not fall apart when there are problems or the stock has not been delivered on time (or whatever) then I think we have finally won, as parents.

Our ambition - to have our child become an independent, functioning, happy, productive and capable adult - has been achieved.

Marg
 
K

Kjs

Guest
After years of just trying to manage difficult child with a single diagnosis of ODD (at age 3)....by age 9, per HIS request...he was put on
a mood stabalizer. He KNEW he had anger issues, he knew he would lose control. His answer was "I can't help it". He also admitted he would purposely make himself angry to avoid crying.
Every intervention we ever tried failed. he had me in tears (at age 4) within hours of waking.
Stimulant was awful. Caused more irritability, anxiety, moodiness. Seemed like we were walking on egg shells all the time.

You don't even realized you get sucked into this argument with a little kid. You are the adult and somehow they have this way to just **** the life out of you.

With the mood stabalizer (lamictal for us) and "taking away" things. THAT worked. Took EVERYTHING away. He earned them back little by little. Didn't set long term goals to earn them back because he just wasn't capable of the long term.

Took some time to get to the correct level of Lamictal, but it definately worked. We saw it, he felt it. Was on Lamictal for 3 years. This past year weaned off, didn't see the anger.

After months of no medication he asked for Concerta to help him focus. He said that helped for a bit, but then he had a bad day, or maybe two and he blamed it on Concerta and never took it again.

Wish I could say ODD is gone. But there are definately MORE good days than bad. (school is a struggle, everyday, all day.)
The very best thing at school was a "cool off" pass. Written in his IEP. Initially was put into place to help him recognize anxiety, frustration and anger setting in, using the pass to go to a designated room, person...calm down and rejoin. He did well this past year with that. did not blow up in class, was able to recognize those signs. however he learned to abuse the pass and just leave when ever he didn't feel like being there. suppose to regroup and rejoin. Well, he left and never returned to that class. On the upside, there was not the argument, anger, frustration, anxiety there once was.

Good luck.
 
W

Wonderful Family

Guest
When my son came out of the hospital; we had a meeting with his teachers. One teacher read a list of the absurd, random running comments he made in class - it was dated and timed (everything that was said in a 15 minute period). Won't say it stopped his behavior at school; but it did turn out to be a good idea at bed time for the same type of behavior. He started stopping pretty quickly a few weeks past when I wrote things down - and I don't recall off-hand major issues in the last 1.5 weeks.

Video or audio taping just freaks him out; writing things down does not make him react the same way?

One thing our therapist suggested is keeping a running list of specific problems at home and addressing them with her instead of by ourselves. This seems to help some - especially addressing potential (specific issues) problems that are likely to occur in the near future.
 

change

New Member
Hi,

I sympathize with you. My daughter is 12 and 13 by summer's end and still acts like a Kinder sometimes because of her defiant behavior. She is extremely oppositional to the point of not having any true friends. It breaks my heart that she self-sabotages so much. I don't have any real solutions for you except that we are very consistent as far as parenting goes and stricter than we want to be. We try to get all adults on the same page with us and they soon comply when they realize how difficult and non-compliant she is. Most adults feel sorry for her too because they can see her lonely existence at her own hands. She has 2 therapists, an EMDR therapist she just started with a couple of months ago and a talk therapist she's had for years. She has a performing arts outlet and shockingly they haven't kicked her out even though she is defiant there too and sometimes disruptive in class and mean to other kids. It's even an audition only academy. Maybe if you can find something like that for your little precious that will capture her interest above anything else, it will help some. It hasn't stopped my daughter from being defiant but it's helped a teeny bit sometimes. HUGS...BIG HUGS...and don't let this drive you crazy because it's not you.
 

navineja

New Member
I am with Kjs- taking everything away and having N earn it back is working well for us, for now at least. She lost all her personal stuff from her bed and her wall on her side of the room last week. (This after months of weekly tantrums and daily defiance and disrespect- I had had enough!) I told her that her days would be divided into 3 segments. If she chose kind respectful behavior for that part of the day, she would earn back one item. A full day of treating people with respect and no defiance would earn a bonus item. (I figured this way she had quick success, leading to feelings of accomplishment and also that it wouldn't take her 6 months to get her stuff out of my room!) I have been soooo pleased with the effort that she has been making. I see her visibly trying to control herself, which is not something that I have seen in the past, even with reminders. She will still react unpleasantly, but with a reminder will actually change her tone and rein in her attitude. She did have a setback last night and had a tantrum. I removed the things that she had earned, but told her that if I saw a true effort today, I would assume that she was just having an off day and she could have them all back. I am so proud to say , she did awesome!!!!! Even with 6 of her cousins being here all day (which is usually just too much stimulation and she goes off the deep end) she had only one little spell of disrespect and got it under control quickly.
For J, when we have problems with her, it works best to send her to her room. "If you chose not to be ________(whatever anti-social behavior is going on) then you need to be by yourself. When you choose to act in a nice way, then you will be able to be with the rest of us." This usually quickly impacts her, as the social butterfly and little diva. (Doesn't work for N with her low self-esteem issues-she just feels rejected).
 

navineja

New Member
Oh I forgot to mention that we are also trying some natural calming things- Bach flower remedies, magnesium supplements, as well as calming techniques the therapist recommended. The entire family is using them all- I figure that at least one of us will manage to stay calm at any given time then!!!! LOL
 

Holliewho

New Member
Nobody touched on this but this is one thing I did learn. If your child has lost weight and is not eating after being placed on ADHD medications... you NEED a different medication. That medication is NOT working for your child. Your doctor should have picked up on that and you shouldnt have to ask for it, but if they havent you need to say something. I know for us our difficult child had to be weighed in at every meeting and when she was trying a new medication she had to be seen every two weeks instead of the once monthly when she was stable.

So if your child is more irritable, not eating, having more meltdowns its time to try a different drug. Sometimes if they are on the sustained release or extended release stuff it doesnt work as well or vice versa. For us my difficult child cannot take the ER/SR stuff it does not work at all for her.
 
Top