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When doctors don't listen to patients (inspired by MM's thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="PlainJane" data-source="post: 550230" data-attributes="member: 11700"><p>Ahh, I can really see both sides of the story here. I have been on the patient end of a less than competent doctor, and on the provider end of an unreasonable, ridiculous patient. </p><p>On the patient end, I rarely run into issue, because I'm a nurse, so when I communicate with doctors, I am pretty much giving "report" about myself. I know how to give report clearly, effectly, and how to focus on important issues and what "complaints" will gentley lead my doctor to the treatment I'd like, if its a case where I kind of have something in mind for treatment. Most docs, if the patient communicates clearly, POLITELY and in an organized fashion, will be fairly accurate with diagnosis and tx. However, many patients don't. They ramble. They add in information that they *think* is importnat, but its not. And they confuse being an informed, involved patient (which is good) with being doctors themselves. </p><p>No profession is immune to less than ideal professionals. I've dealt with doctors both as a nurse and a patient that are just not good at what they do. They are not stupid. Often patients also confuse stupid with just not caring. Rest assure, those doctors are smart. They just don't care what you have to say, either because they dislike their job or their personality is just one of being a jerk. lol </p><p>I've have a few times where I felt that the doctor I was dealing with was being very "relaxed" with my treatment (I have a few things here and there to deal with) but its not that they weren't listening, its just that I prefer a more aggressive approach to various issues. I've also found that arguing or getting an attitude with them accomplishes nothing. If they make it clear they are not going to do XYZ and I want XYZ, I thank them and find another doctor. If you've stated your case reasonabley and clearly and your doctor is still refusing to take the method of management and treatment you want, then all the attitude is not going to change their mind. I've found that patients that feel the need to argue with doctors are more about proving that the doctor isn't "better than them" rather than about their treatment. Its an insecurity, even if they don't see it. (Unless for some reason you are unable to go to another doctor. That's obviously a different story)</p><p></p><p> I have found that the majority of doctors are pretty good, but of course they are human. In my experience, patients that have a long list of doctors they didn't get along with are difficult patients. It just like people that have almost no friends, but think its everybody else. On the other hand, its I've found even the nicest patients have at least one story of some a-hole doctor that blew them off when it was something important.</p><p> Its always good to be active in your care, and stay informed. Doctors have lots of patients, but you only have one; you. </p><p></p><p>Hound Dog, where did you get your opinion on medical schools? I mean to make a broad statement like that without having researched the educational philosophy of the majority of medial schools, is well, hog wash. Sorry but I call it as I see it. My opinion is what I know from working with many doctors, and being married to one. And your opinion couldn;t be more wrong. If anything the younger docs often comment on the old school docs being from a day when patients did not have a say. The new philosophies (in the north east anyway, where some of the top medical schools are) are that the patient and doctor are parteners in healthcare. These new docs are taught that the number one reason people sue (and this is true, you can look this up) is because they feel dismissed by their doctor, NOT because of medical error...docs are being taught to keep their patients happy and listen to them to avoid lawsuits. This is the new age of medicine. </p><p></p><p>Also the quality/quanity thing doesn't apply to us. We aren't car parts. And we take the same amount of time in schooling, if anything the time in school is getting longer and longer. If anything the standards we (nurse and docs) must satisfy has increased, but now we have more and more patients, with more and more demands. People go on google and spend hours reading about their one issue. Then they go into an ER and get annoyed when the doctor there who is a generalist doesn't have this specific detailed knowledge...because that doctor has SO MUCH to learn, and if he or she had the time to read about that one issue for hours and hours like the patient, then that would be great, but that's not real life. We are human, not computers. And tell your nurse friend that nurses have been coaching residents long before she or I were nurses! lol its not some new thing, just because you are just hearing about it. I know many nurses that have been doing this since the 60's (some retired now) and I've worked in teaching hospitals and for many moons experienced nurses have guided residents! They are called teaching hospital for a reason. You know what they say, don't go into the hospital in June!! (That when all the new residents start) </p><p></p><p></p><p>One time I had a patient's family ask me about one of *her* medications (not my patient, the family member, who is not my patient) and it was some odd medication that is not typically given. I'd barely heard of it, let alone did I know the specifics of it. I told her, I didn't know but I could look it up for her. Well, her reply was some snotty somment about how I should know...I went to my bag, got my 2 inch think drug book, brought it back and dropped it in her lap. I told her if I could memorize every drug in here, plus all the interactions, side effects, and other info...then I wouldn't be here being talked down to by her, but that I'd probably be employed with the government as some super intelligence personel...Pts can be very rude and demanding. And sometimes they need to remember not to treat healthcare workers like ****. People even *brag* about it. They are proud of themselves for arguing and talking nasty to doctors. I find that disgusting.</p><p></p><p>Are some doctors jerks. Yes. And generally the jerky ones, are disliked by the other docs. But if you find that more often that not you are having issues with docs, its probably not them.</p><p></p><p>It seems to be socially acceptable to healthcare bash. (Which is very different from sharing personal stories). But making broad negative statements about healthcare is something people just do, without taking into consideration that healthcare workers may be in ear shot. And most frustrating is people form opinions (that they think are facts) and they are just so out in left field on what they are saying...where do people come up with these ideas? People who are not even in healthcare think they have it all figured out, when really they have no clue how the inside of the healthcare beast works. Heck, those of us that work in healthcare are often just trying to help people but get caught in the bureaucratic current imposed on us by the hospital corperate leaders that don't give a rats butt about you. All they care about is $$$$, and we, the docs and nurse, are trying to advocate for the patient. But the guys that make the final decisions aren't health care providers, they are business men....</p><p>But I never hear people bashing the CEO of our local hospital for cutting staff and supplies, while lining his own pocket. What people b!tch about is their nurse wasn't there is 3 seconds when they rang the bell for the 89th time...well if we had more staff and didn't have HOURS of paper work (paper work quadruples yearly...)maybe we could actually talk to our patients...But instead people that have no idea what's really going on, form opinions on why their nurse didn't bring them a glass of water for 10 minutes and how they nearly died from thirst...and they just think its the nurse being lazy....and GOD forbid we take a lunch...regardless, trust me, we do love our jobs, cause lord knows we would not do it otherwise.</p><p>Ok seriously, I need to walk away from the computer, now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PlainJane, post: 550230, member: 11700"] Ahh, I can really see both sides of the story here. I have been on the patient end of a less than competent doctor, and on the provider end of an unreasonable, ridiculous patient. On the patient end, I rarely run into issue, because I'm a nurse, so when I communicate with doctors, I am pretty much giving "report" about myself. I know how to give report clearly, effectly, and how to focus on important issues and what "complaints" will gentley lead my doctor to the treatment I'd like, if its a case where I kind of have something in mind for treatment. Most docs, if the patient communicates clearly, POLITELY and in an organized fashion, will be fairly accurate with diagnosis and tx. However, many patients don't. They ramble. They add in information that they *think* is importnat, but its not. And they confuse being an informed, involved patient (which is good) with being doctors themselves. No profession is immune to less than ideal professionals. I've dealt with doctors both as a nurse and a patient that are just not good at what they do. They are not stupid. Often patients also confuse stupid with just not caring. Rest assure, those doctors are smart. They just don't care what you have to say, either because they dislike their job or their personality is just one of being a jerk. lol I've have a few times where I felt that the doctor I was dealing with was being very "relaxed" with my treatment (I have a few things here and there to deal with) but its not that they weren't listening, its just that I prefer a more aggressive approach to various issues. I've also found that arguing or getting an attitude with them accomplishes nothing. If they make it clear they are not going to do XYZ and I want XYZ, I thank them and find another doctor. If you've stated your case reasonabley and clearly and your doctor is still refusing to take the method of management and treatment you want, then all the attitude is not going to change their mind. I've found that patients that feel the need to argue with doctors are more about proving that the doctor isn't "better than them" rather than about their treatment. Its an insecurity, even if they don't see it. (Unless for some reason you are unable to go to another doctor. That's obviously a different story) I have found that the majority of doctors are pretty good, but of course they are human. In my experience, patients that have a long list of doctors they didn't get along with are difficult patients. It just like people that have almost no friends, but think its everybody else. On the other hand, its I've found even the nicest patients have at least one story of some a-hole doctor that blew them off when it was something important. Its always good to be active in your care, and stay informed. Doctors have lots of patients, but you only have one; you. Hound Dog, where did you get your opinion on medical schools? I mean to make a broad statement like that without having researched the educational philosophy of the majority of medial schools, is well, hog wash. Sorry but I call it as I see it. My opinion is what I know from working with many doctors, and being married to one. And your opinion couldn;t be more wrong. If anything the younger docs often comment on the old school docs being from a day when patients did not have a say. The new philosophies (in the north east anyway, where some of the top medical schools are) are that the patient and doctor are parteners in healthcare. These new docs are taught that the number one reason people sue (and this is true, you can look this up) is because they feel dismissed by their doctor, NOT because of medical error...docs are being taught to keep their patients happy and listen to them to avoid lawsuits. This is the new age of medicine. Also the quality/quanity thing doesn't apply to us. We aren't car parts. And we take the same amount of time in schooling, if anything the time in school is getting longer and longer. If anything the standards we (nurse and docs) must satisfy has increased, but now we have more and more patients, with more and more demands. People go on google and spend hours reading about their one issue. Then they go into an ER and get annoyed when the doctor there who is a generalist doesn't have this specific detailed knowledge...because that doctor has SO MUCH to learn, and if he or she had the time to read about that one issue for hours and hours like the patient, then that would be great, but that's not real life. We are human, not computers. And tell your nurse friend that nurses have been coaching residents long before she or I were nurses! lol its not some new thing, just because you are just hearing about it. I know many nurses that have been doing this since the 60's (some retired now) and I've worked in teaching hospitals and for many moons experienced nurses have guided residents! They are called teaching hospital for a reason. You know what they say, don't go into the hospital in June!! (That when all the new residents start) One time I had a patient's family ask me about one of *her* medications (not my patient, the family member, who is not my patient) and it was some odd medication that is not typically given. I'd barely heard of it, let alone did I know the specifics of it. I told her, I didn't know but I could look it up for her. Well, her reply was some snotty somment about how I should know...I went to my bag, got my 2 inch think drug book, brought it back and dropped it in her lap. I told her if I could memorize every drug in here, plus all the interactions, side effects, and other info...then I wouldn't be here being talked down to by her, but that I'd probably be employed with the government as some super intelligence personel...Pts can be very rude and demanding. And sometimes they need to remember not to treat healthcare workers like ****. People even *brag* about it. They are proud of themselves for arguing and talking nasty to doctors. I find that disgusting. Are some doctors jerks. Yes. And generally the jerky ones, are disliked by the other docs. But if you find that more often that not you are having issues with docs, its probably not them. It seems to be socially acceptable to healthcare bash. (Which is very different from sharing personal stories). But making broad negative statements about healthcare is something people just do, without taking into consideration that healthcare workers may be in ear shot. And most frustrating is people form opinions (that they think are facts) and they are just so out in left field on what they are saying...where do people come up with these ideas? People who are not even in healthcare think they have it all figured out, when really they have no clue how the inside of the healthcare beast works. Heck, those of us that work in healthcare are often just trying to help people but get caught in the bureaucratic current imposed on us by the hospital corperate leaders that don't give a rats butt about you. All they care about is $$$$, and we, the docs and nurse, are trying to advocate for the patient. But the guys that make the final decisions aren't health care providers, they are business men.... But I never hear people bashing the CEO of our local hospital for cutting staff and supplies, while lining his own pocket. What people b!tch about is their nurse wasn't there is 3 seconds when they rang the bell for the 89th time...well if we had more staff and didn't have HOURS of paper work (paper work quadruples yearly...)maybe we could actually talk to our patients...But instead people that have no idea what's really going on, form opinions on why their nurse didn't bring them a glass of water for 10 minutes and how they nearly died from thirst...and they just think its the nurse being lazy....and GOD forbid we take a lunch...regardless, trust me, we do love our jobs, cause lord knows we would not do it otherwise. Ok seriously, I need to walk away from the computer, now. [/QUOTE]
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When doctors don't listen to patients (inspired by MM's thread)
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