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General Parenting
When no amount of discipline and rewards seem to work?
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<blockquote data-quote="slsh" data-source="post: 402700" data-attributes="member: 8"><p>I tried to post this last night, but my modem died. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>[FONT=&quot]My son was very much the same way. There was no consequence that ever changed his behavior, and no reward that was worth it for him to jump through the hoop. Rewards, when he rarely earned them, provoked negative behavior, while any kind of negative consequence just seemed to reinforce the negative behavior. It was absolutely maddening. And he was so smooth - he talked the talk with- every counselor and teacher and psychiatrist. Goodness, he was good. He had it all down, knew exactly what he *needed* to do to finish school, return home, etc., etc. Didn't follow thru on any of it, and ultimately blamed his lack of follow thru on us because of our rules (which basically consisted of no violence, safe behavior, basic hygiene, period). We had a couple of teachers and SWs who got sucked into his manipulations. I learned just to bide my time, work the program and do what they expected me to do, and wait for thank you to do his thing - every single professional involved in his treatment eventually got it. I would warn them and they would say "Oh, no.... thank you's changed." Much easier to wait for him to prove them wrong. But also, I think I probably also held out the hope that eventually he would prove me wrong. Never did, at least not while in treatment. </p><p></p><p>He spent 6 months at home between the age of 9 and 18; the rest of the time he was in various Residential Treatment Center (RTC) programs. And of those 6 months, probably a good month and a half was spent in the hospital due to violent outbursts. He dropped out of school at 18, lost funding for his Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and was off on his own. Not a happy period of time.</p><p></p><p>I've done a lot of thinking since he hit 18 about what we could have done differently, what might have gotten his attention and prevented him from throwing his childhood away. I'm still stumped. He's stumped as well. He was just so focused on doing things his way and on getting the most negative kinds of attention that he could that he just couldn't see past it. He was a very violent kiddo. Was arrested at 16 for possession - that actually did seem to have a bit of an impact on him, which surprised me because he'd had innumerable run-ins with- police before. Maybe it was because they actually arrested him, finger printed him, the whole nine yards. Because it was his first arrest, it was deferred so long as he stayed out of trouble until he hit 18, which he did. </p><p></p><p>I guess on a happier note, I should tell you that while he's not employed, is still on SSI, and is living a kind of nomadic existence right now, he's actually a heck of a lot better off than my husband and I expected at this age (almost 20). He hasn't been violent in about 4 years (that I know of). He has not been arrested as an adult (that I know of). He's put himself in some really bad situations, but... it seems like that is the only way he learns. A counselor told us many many years ago that thank you wouldn't change his behavior until it became too expensive for him to continue on as he was. Unfortunately, being separated from his family and living in institutions for half his childhood wasn't expensive enough for him. I shudder to think what his life has been like on his own - I don't ask questions. I am grateful that he is alive, not incarcerated, and seems to be making better choices (comparatively speaking). We have a good and loving relationship. He stops by for dinner occasionally, just spent 2 nights here (funny, he can't stay in a place by himself - has to have someone else there - and since his roommates were out of town, he asked if he could stay with us). He is respectful, follows our house rules, and is honestly a pleasure to be around now (I *never* thought I would be able to say that). I don't know what the future holds for him, whether or not he will ever get his act together and get a job, contribute to his own life, but... he's definitely not the adult I thought he would be based on his childhood/teen behaviors - he's come a very long way.</p><p></p><p>We cannot make our kids make better choices. They have to do that. Some will finally decide to jump thru the hoop; others will fight tooth and nail to go around it. I think the only thing you can do is stand back, let the professionals do their thing, remind them that it's one thing to spout off appropriate answers to therapeutic questions and a whole other thing to actually follow thru with appropriate actions, and wait. It's very hard.[/FONT]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="slsh, post: 402700, member: 8"] I tried to post this last night, but my modem died. ;) [FONT="]My son was very much the same way. There was no consequence that ever changed his behavior, and no reward that was worth it for him to jump through the hoop. Rewards, when he rarely earned them, provoked negative behavior, while any kind of negative consequence just seemed to reinforce the negative behavior. It was absolutely maddening. And he was so smooth - he talked the talk with- every counselor and teacher and psychiatrist. Goodness, he was good. He had it all down, knew exactly what he *needed* to do to finish school, return home, etc., etc. Didn't follow thru on any of it, and ultimately blamed his lack of follow thru on us because of our rules (which basically consisted of no violence, safe behavior, basic hygiene, period). We had a couple of teachers and SWs who got sucked into his manipulations. I learned just to bide my time, work the program and do what they expected me to do, and wait for thank you to do his thing - every single professional involved in his treatment eventually got it. I would warn them and they would say "Oh, no.... thank you's changed." Much easier to wait for him to prove them wrong. But also, I think I probably also held out the hope that eventually he would prove me wrong. Never did, at least not while in treatment. He spent 6 months at home between the age of 9 and 18; the rest of the time he was in various Residential Treatment Center (RTC) programs. And of those 6 months, probably a good month and a half was spent in the hospital due to violent outbursts. He dropped out of school at 18, lost funding for his Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and was off on his own. Not a happy period of time. I've done a lot of thinking since he hit 18 about what we could have done differently, what might have gotten his attention and prevented him from throwing his childhood away. I'm still stumped. He's stumped as well. He was just so focused on doing things his way and on getting the most negative kinds of attention that he could that he just couldn't see past it. He was a very violent kiddo. Was arrested at 16 for possession - that actually did seem to have a bit of an impact on him, which surprised me because he'd had innumerable run-ins with- police before. Maybe it was because they actually arrested him, finger printed him, the whole nine yards. Because it was his first arrest, it was deferred so long as he stayed out of trouble until he hit 18, which he did. I guess on a happier note, I should tell you that while he's not employed, is still on SSI, and is living a kind of nomadic existence right now, he's actually a heck of a lot better off than my husband and I expected at this age (almost 20). He hasn't been violent in about 4 years (that I know of). He has not been arrested as an adult (that I know of). He's put himself in some really bad situations, but... it seems like that is the only way he learns. A counselor told us many many years ago that thank you wouldn't change his behavior until it became too expensive for him to continue on as he was. Unfortunately, being separated from his family and living in institutions for half his childhood wasn't expensive enough for him. I shudder to think what his life has been like on his own - I don't ask questions. I am grateful that he is alive, not incarcerated, and seems to be making better choices (comparatively speaking). We have a good and loving relationship. He stops by for dinner occasionally, just spent 2 nights here (funny, he can't stay in a place by himself - has to have someone else there - and since his roommates were out of town, he asked if he could stay with us). He is respectful, follows our house rules, and is honestly a pleasure to be around now (I *never* thought I would be able to say that). I don't know what the future holds for him, whether or not he will ever get his act together and get a job, contribute to his own life, but... he's definitely not the adult I thought he would be based on his childhood/teen behaviors - he's come a very long way. We cannot make our kids make better choices. They have to do that. Some will finally decide to jump thru the hoop; others will fight tooth and nail to go around it. I think the only thing you can do is stand back, let the professionals do their thing, remind them that it's one thing to spout off appropriate answers to therapeutic questions and a whole other thing to actually follow thru with appropriate actions, and wait. It's very hard.[/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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