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Family of Origin
When parents still abuse their adult children:
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 675088" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Yes. I agree with you.</p><p></p><p>What I am working on now is respecting the choices, the decisions I make. Understanding it is a betrayal of self to not fulfill them. And behaving with integrity to myself. </p><p></p><p>I seem to be batting 50/50. I did not retreat into the room I go to to seclude myself all day or night. Just to use the printer. My buying is much reduced, but not stopped. But much reduced is a start.</p><p></p><p>I am seeing that a major barrier for me was the overwhelm that comes from seeing the whole thing all at once--instead of small, discrete steps or moral choices, that accumulate to make a whole. And the whole, I see now, is my. My inner Germany.</p><p></p><p>How is is easier to see her as an abuser, than as a narcissist, with sociopathic traits? A malignant narcissist is a newish term. We can forget about it. </p><p>I think this is a tough one, Cedar. Because you have constructed a maze to shield yourself from pain, which now has become an encumbrance in some of its aspects, but nonetheless it is you, and it is beautiful. You must feel that by challenging it, you lose part of who you are. </p><p></p><p>Realize, Cedar, that you are in the center and always have been. You and the idea of excellence and formal beauty. You can build a bridge over that does not destroy the maze. We will do that. No loss in that. </p><p>You chose one concrete idea, a family dinner, to define yourself and your dreams. It is you who believes in it. Nobody can take it away. I do not see your understanding of your real family as taking away that ideal. </p><p></p><p>But it is an ideal, a perfect thing, that stands as an aspiration. Perhaps it might help to read some of the idealist philosophers. Plato? I am not sure. I will look. And see how others have maneuvered the implementation of idealism into the real world.</p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>Cedar, you are being hard on yourself. You do make ethical choices. Except like me, you may not act with one hundred percent integrity in relationship to yourself. Because it feels like you that to get out of the maze you need to cut off part of yourself. Build a bridge over. Or better yet, fly. We will find an image of a beautiful bird, or flying craft. Or a catapult. Or you can be Tarzan. Is he the one who vaulted over by the suspended rope/like vines?</p><p>Well put, Cedar. </p><p></p><p>I had a dream this morning. Everything about waking up because M got up at 5 to work. I got up at 8 to let the dogs out, and went back to sleep. </p><p></p><p>I woke up having dreamed about my mother. My sister had taken her from my home (actually our childhood home) and put her into a hospital far away. She would not give me the phone number or tell me where she was. I was desolate and frantic.</p><p></p><p>Except I never did call my attorney, when I knew he could help me. Because a tiny piece of me liked the freedom from responsibility.</p><p></p><p>When I finally was able to secure the phone number to where my mother was, my mother was happy to talk to me, but wishy washy about wanting to return. I was hurt. </p><p></p><p>Is this how my mother always was?</p><p>I do not think they are evil. They choose evil. Over and over again, they have the opportunity to choose well, they do not. They can stop. The power and responsibility is in them to choose well. They can.</p><p>Yes. I would be interested to see this with concrete examples. An instance where this occurred and what the ethical choice would be, and what the compromising choice would be.</p><p></p><p>I will think and think about this, because it applies to our children, too. </p><p></p><p>There is a new set of developments with my son. I am weary to write it but will sooner or later. </p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 675088, member: 18958"] Yes. I agree with you. What I am working on now is respecting the choices, the decisions I make. Understanding it is a betrayal of self to not fulfill them. And behaving with integrity to myself. I seem to be batting 50/50. I did not retreat into the room I go to to seclude myself all day or night. Just to use the printer. My buying is much reduced, but not stopped. But much reduced is a start. I am seeing that a major barrier for me was the overwhelm that comes from seeing the whole thing all at once--instead of small, discrete steps or moral choices, that accumulate to make a whole. And the whole, I see now, is my. My inner Germany. How is is easier to see her as an abuser, than as a narcissist, with sociopathic traits? A malignant narcissist is a newish term. We can forget about it. I think this is a tough one, Cedar. Because you have constructed a maze to shield yourself from pain, which now has become an encumbrance in some of its aspects, but nonetheless it is you, and it is beautiful. You must feel that by challenging it, you lose part of who you are. Realize, Cedar, that you are in the center and always have been. You and the idea of excellence and formal beauty. You can build a bridge over that does not destroy the maze. We will do that. No loss in that. You chose one concrete idea, a family dinner, to define yourself and your dreams. It is you who believes in it. Nobody can take it away. I do not see your understanding of your real family as taking away that ideal. But it is an ideal, a perfect thing, that stands as an aspiration. Perhaps it might help to read some of the idealist philosophers. Plato? I am not sure. I will look. And see how others have maneuvered the implementation of idealism into the real world. Yes. Cedar, you are being hard on yourself. You do make ethical choices. Except like me, you may not act with one hundred percent integrity in relationship to yourself. Because it feels like you that to get out of the maze you need to cut off part of yourself. Build a bridge over. Or better yet, fly. We will find an image of a beautiful bird, or flying craft. Or a catapult. Or you can be Tarzan. Is he the one who vaulted over by the suspended rope/like vines? Well put, Cedar. I had a dream this morning. Everything about waking up because M got up at 5 to work. I got up at 8 to let the dogs out, and went back to sleep. I woke up having dreamed about my mother. My sister had taken her from my home (actually our childhood home) and put her into a hospital far away. She would not give me the phone number or tell me where she was. I was desolate and frantic. Except I never did call my attorney, when I knew he could help me. Because a tiny piece of me liked the freedom from responsibility. When I finally was able to secure the phone number to where my mother was, my mother was happy to talk to me, but wishy washy about wanting to return. I was hurt. Is this how my mother always was? I do not think they are evil. They choose evil. Over and over again, they have the opportunity to choose well, they do not. They can stop. The power and responsibility is in them to choose well. They can. Yes. I would be interested to see this with concrete examples. An instance where this occurred and what the ethical choice would be, and what the compromising choice would be. I will think and think about this, because it applies to our children, too. There is a new set of developments with my son. I am weary to write it but will sooner or later. COPA [/QUOTE]
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When parents still abuse their adult children:
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